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On July 02 2009 00:30 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2009 00:27 floor exercise wrote:
I still don't understand why this demanded a video be made instead of just writing an explanation perhaps because tasteless likes to be in the limelight just talking about anything. I think Tasteless should stick to commentating and not be a judge, because he seems a bit whimsy.
You don´t know him right? He is one of the guys that always are in good mood, funny and nice, he is not whimsy at all, he rather is up to solve problems in a nice way
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On July 02 2009 01:49 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2009 01:32 Ilvy wrote:On July 01 2009 21:25 rei wrote:On July 01 2009 19:25 LG)Sabbath wrote:
The overturning of decisions is just a display of lack of integrity as an organization, where you don't have a rule that covers the case and you're evaluating on a case-by-case basis, which can result in bias. You can overturn it, and you probably have to, but the damage to your reputation is already done, and that was the whole point of Strelok's thread. Some people still think it was about the games, even after he said he wouldn't return even if they gave him the wins for free.
So the promise of a professional tournament run by a professional organization was clearly broken... it is understandable that Strelok is disappointed. Maybe he's just not in for the money, maybe he just wanted to be part of the pro scene for a while here and, the tournament being not what was promised, he had no reason to continue, as the prestige of winning it would be mostly if not completely gone. What is integrity? is it fairness? lack of integrity as an organization means lacking in fairness? What are rules? is it to protect fair play in the context of games? rules of iccup for not allowing maphack is to protect fair play right? rules of iccup for now allowing people to abuse the ladder is to protect fair play right? When savior got reset by iccup because he played the same dude 20times in one day was because admins were following the rules to protect fair play. The admins would be right if savior had the need to abuse to get #1 rank on iccup. When Gorush typed ppp instead of pp and the rule says that's a disqualification. What rule was applied here? the same rule that trying to protect fair play right? typing all game long to distract the other guy is not fair play, and hence there is a need of no typing rules. What happens when the very same rule we created trying to protect fair play themselves are impeding fair play? the very same reason we created them in the first place? We should fucking ignore the rules. Rules are created by people, they are just guidelines in which the true value lies on the reason of why we needed the rules, not the rules themselves. Integrity is something along the line of holding high standard on fairness, not sticking to the decision even knowing it is wrong. I hope you learned something for my effort So wrong, you just said that if Gorush could abuse and play same person 20 times because its obvious that he is too good and doesn´t need to "abuse" but other ppl are not allowed to do same because they are not that good and it would help them so its a "real abuse"? Rules do not work like that, you either got rules should apply for everyone same way, no matter who he is, who are you that you take out the right to judge who needs to follow them and who not? So the value of every good tournament are the rules and the admins that follows them 100%. Oh and the admin should have at least a knowledge about the game/sport whatever he works with. he is not saying that rules shouldnt apply to some people, hes saying that the rule should be applied intelligently to everyone. rules cannot be written to address every specific situation, that is why we have referees and judges and administrators, to judge how a rule should be applied under various circumstances. the game limit on iccup is to prevent players from cheating the system and gaining points without earning them. but when 2 high ranked players play each other 20 times in a row and go 10-10 its obviously not abuse, just practice. so they are technically violating the rule, but anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that they arent violating the purpose of the rule and so should not be punished. rules are not perfect, they are guidelines. you cannot follow them 100% and expect to have a well run tournament.
I do not agree on that, if you want to just practice with one and the same partner you could easily do that without playing laddergames, this should not be a reason to violate the rules. Even koreans are able to read rules and follow them...
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well no wonder wgt was so well administered for all those years!
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Wow this is mess is still a clusterf---.
What's important here is that Tasteless said they WILL be airing the disconnect game and casting it. That means everyone will be able to see for themselves how big an advantage Strelok had, and then judge if giving Strelok a win, replaying the whole series, or replaying game 2 alone, would be the best call.
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On July 02 2009 02:05 IdrA wrote:
well no wonder wgt was so well administered for all those years!
thanks, i never had a problem in administrating tournaments, the only one was WDT but thats a old, old story ^^
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On July 02 2009 01:32 Ilvy wrote:
So wrong, you just said that if Gorush could abuse and play same person 20 times because its obvious that he is too good and doesn´t need to "abuse" but other ppl are not allowed to do same because they are not that good and it would help them so its a "real abuse"?
Rules do not work like that, you either got rules should apply for everyone same way, no matter who he is, who are you that you take out the right to judge who needs to follow them and who not? So the value of every good tournament are the rules and the admins that follows them 100%.
Oh and the admin should have at least a knowledge about the game/sport whatever he works with.
“I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.” – Confucius.
a hint on how to interrupt Confucius in this context:
by merely telling you the logics in this context is not enough, because our words are not getting through your preconceived notions. "unfortunately, no one can be told what the matrix is"--- Morpheus
you have to see examples of how people in life abuse the rules to their benefit, in order to remember why there are rules. Do you want a tough Judge or do you want a fair judge? have you experience the difference of the two judges? "You have to see it for yourself, this is your last chance, after this there is no turning back, you take the blue pill, the story ends. you wake up and believe whatever you want to believe. you take the red pill you stay in wonderland and i show you just how deep the rabbit hole goes."-Morpheus
and finally once you are able to critically think about this for yourself then you can understand. With out the Doing of critical thinking, you will not be able to understand.
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I do understand why Strelok would be frustrated with Fenix though. He only has a 2 hour window where he wants to play, which is when Strelok is sleeping. Also, he lags, and disconnected when Strelok felt he was winning.
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Tasteless seems like such a upfront straight-shooting type of guy, really like the fact that he comes clean about staff errors and tries to straighten things out with fans/competitors face-to-face (or as close to it as possible). Props to Tasteless.
As for Strelok, although I understand his frustration and decision to drop out, I think that there could be a less dramatic more peaceful outcome. However, decision is his like Tasteless said, and like I just said, I think all of us would be upset if someone handed us a prize then took it away because the person giving the prize wasn't as qualified as they should be when running a tournament. Strelok always seemed like a very gm guy in other issues and games, so I can't say that this hurts his reputation in my eyes.
Good luck to Valor competitors, staff and organizers. Thanks for giving the foreign community more opportunities to have head-to-head battles that are shown internationally - this brings us that much closer to Korea's proscene.
On July 02 2009 02:29 Zzoram wrote:
I do understand why Strelok would be frustrated with Fenix though. He only has a 2 hour window where he wants to play, which is when Strelok is sleeping. Also, he lags, and disconnected when Strelok felt he was winning.
This too.
Although you can't take anything away from Fenix, it's probably not under his control when he can play, and no one can stop the Earth from rotating so that they have a more comfortable gaming environment.
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A wrong call was initially made, but given the format of the tournament, they have time to rectify it. So what's not to like? This is the fairest decision. The outcome of game 1 is not in dispute, so there's no reason to restart the series based on a game 2 disconnect. Strelok feels cheated, but what about Fenix? He had already won the first game, but because of a disconnect that win counts for nothing? That would invalidate the results of this round to a greater degree than what has actually transpired. Even better, we get to see the replay for ourselves and judge. So its logical to hold all opinions for now until we see the replay to be able to judge the quality of the decision made. So far, they are getting it perfectly right. The initial mistake doesn't outweigh the best possible decision.
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I'm so confused by the brackets on the Valor site.
Now it's going to be aoOa (Advokate) vs Fenix in the lower bracket and in top it's going to be Brat_OK vs winner of ( Idra v Castro)
Can someone confirm or deny this?
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On July 02 2009 04:49 Sadistx wrote:
I'm so confused by the brackets on the Valor site.
Now it's going to be aoOa (Advokate) vs Fenix in the lower bracket and in top it's going to be Brat_OK vs winner of ( Idra v Castro)
Can someone confirm or deny this?
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So Fenix lags, he spambotted Artosis, he disconnected in a game where he was down a lot against Strelok..
Decision may have been in Strelok's favor at first, but changed to being in Fenix's favor. Neither one is neutral. Maybe neutral by standards of 'this is what we do when this happens', but that's all. But then again, people may remember Nony being awarded a game against F91 when there was a disconnect (with a similar advantage before the disconnect). So, TL staff would've gone with the first decision, by past history..
At first I wasn't sure, but now, I understand why Strelok is upset.
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United States246 Posts
They should restart best of three and allow them to replay with Fenix at 1-0. How is that not fair? Fenix won one game. Just replay the two you messed up on. Fuck it. Let Strelok pick one of the maps out of a map pool for game 2 if he feel so cheated. Strelok man...sometimes life isn't fair, but thats no reason to quit. Just take the 1-0 restart. If your the better player you will win.(See: Jaedong vs Fantasy '09...one of them was simply the better player.)
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Rules are never perfect. Us human just aren't smart enough to account for every possible situation and write rule that can rectify or punish them perfectly every time. So it is understandable that every now and then we would make some mistake in our judgment call (even if the mistake seems so obvious and easily recognizable to the outside observer). When that happen two three thing usually happen:
The stupid solution: Follow the rule to the letter even though the outcome is the exact opposite of what the rule intended to protect and never change the rule. (This is the reason why many time good people go to jail while asshole with million dollars lawyer able to go free cause of some stupid technicality in the wording of the law)
The egotistic solution: It's pretty much the same as the stupid solution since they rather save face and not admitting they screw the pooch, but knowing they screwed up and change the rule to prevent similar situation in the future from happening.
The just solution: Apply the intent of the rule instead of the literal interpretation of it and change it to prevent similar situation in the future from happening.
Sure this situation is a mess. Sure poor judgment were made by couple of people. Sure the even organizer should of foreseen this and prevent this kind of situation from happening in the first place. But that still no really not to fixed the mistake that was made in the first place and most definitely not a good reason favor person or another just because that person feel they were being cheated.
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On July 02 2009 05:53 Bebop Berserker wrote:
They should restart best of three and allow them to replay with Strelok at 1-1. How is that not fair? They both basically won one game. Just play the last game. Fuck it. Let Fenix pick one of the maps out of a map pool for game 3 if he feel so cheated. Fenix man...sometimes life isn't fair, but thats no reason to quit. Just take the 1-1 restart. If your the better player you will win.(See: Jaedong vs Fantasy '09...one of them was simply the better player.)
I can do this too.. (ed: just so it's clear, i 'fixed' the above)
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
can i make my own video statement please
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Tasteless is wearing one of his PandaBearGuy shirt
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On July 02 2009 10:43 Rekrul wrote:
can i make my own video statement please
I actually do want to put a face to Rekrul when I think about it.. any photos?
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On July 02 2009 11:40 errol1001 wrote: I actually do want to put a face to Rekrul when I think about it.. any photos?
How about clicking his profile?
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EPT
