On February 22 2009 07:09 PanN wrote: Best fighter in the world doesn't shit talk.
Shit talker got destroyed by a foreigner that is apparently "1-2 years" behind.
I think thats open and shut.
GSP does talk shit (albeit not as much as other fighters. He is one guy though, and best in his weight class). Remember when matt hughes was on top or matt sera?. , go watch their prefight interviews. And even if he didn't, does that make BJ a bad fighter? Does it make him a bad person cause he's trying to get into his opponent's head? No.
The thing that makes sports competative is the desire to win and the will to defeat your opponent. If Idra's plan is to do this by under appreciating the the skill of his opponents then that is fine. Whether it works is not relevant to the fact that smack talking and the creation of drama is just part of the game. Why else would we have him on a Van Damne Body and F91 on Bolo :p
i don't think the analogy really matters, honestly. i think people generally expect more in terms of manners because starcraft is a game that has more to do with chess or go than boxing or ufc (although the recent absurdity of some pre-game ceremonies might make this debatable)
talking shit is a massive part playing competitive sports. in baseball, as a shortstop, one of my major roles is to fuck with runners standing on second. kicking sand on them, talking smack, hard tags are devices i can use to gain a competitive advantage.
God, what is wrong with you kids lol. Have you every watched a professional fight? Boxing, UFC, MMA, The fighters are hyped up, trash talk each other to no end to get everyone buzzed for the event. What's more interesting, two good buddies having a friendly match or China vs USA battle for racial supremacy and bragging rights?
I've met Idra in person and he is very modest and not the shit talker that is he is made out to be- like most American BW players he has a lot more to say online which often leads to this "drama". It's not a result of being rude or BM but simply accepting the fact that it's just a game and if (like many who have posted in this thread) you take it too seriously then you haven't done yourself justice.
I'd implore you all to come back to reality and get off the "idra is rude, he started it first" high horse....its just the internet you nerds.
No offense, but professional fighting is totally different. They do that kind of shit because it hypes people up, it's sort of staged in a way. And if you want to look at sports, professional fighting is pretty much the ONLY sport (to my knowledge) where people actually trash talk. Look at the NBA, NHL, NFL, or any other major sport, nobody talks shit in their interviews. Even if a team wins by a landslide, they still give their opponents credit. Tennis is the same. Boxing and stuff has trash talking because it's more for show than they are actually talking trash.
When IdrA makes the comments he makes, it's not because he's trying to build up hype and put on some kind of show-rivalry. He genuinely thinks most other players are shitty and he should roll over them. If you don't see that you are fooling yourself.
I've met IdrA in person too, and he's a nice guy, but let's face it, almost every single personality online turns out to be nice in real life. Not many people would talk shit in front of your face... IdrA is a nice guy, but he's too cocky and it comes off REALLY the wrong way especially online, and IMO it hinders him because he's shown he can't play well in pressure situations, and he adds unneeded pressure because of how arrogant he seems
On February 22 2009 07:09 PanN wrote: Best fighter in the world doesn't shit talk.
Shit talker got destroyed by a foreigner that is apparently "1-2 years" behind.
I think thats open and shut.
GSP does talk shit (albeit not as much as other fighters. He is one guy though, and best in his weight class). Remember when matt hughes was on top or matt sera?. , go watch their prefight interviews. And even if he didn't, does that make BJ a bad fighter? Does it make him a bad person cause he's trying to get into his opponent's head? No.
The thing that makes sports competative is the desire to win and the will to defeat your opponent. If Idra's plan is to do this by under appreciating the the skill of his opponents then that is fine. Whether it works is not relevant to the fact that smack talking and the creation of drama is just part of the game. Why else would we have him on a Van Damne Body and F91 on Bolo :p
Although I was talking about fedor (its obviously just an opinion until the two have their own BO5, which would be sick) I do see your point that it makes the games better.
You're completely right actually, the fact that the non-professional nice guy overcomes the "professional"-ass to nearly every single person on the forums makes it one of the best sets in SC history to me.
And seeing two monkies beat their chest in anticipation meanwhile bad mouthing eachother makes it boring and a bad match to me. Seeing two fighters with good manners, and respect for the sport, makes me want to watch.
I would argue there is alot of shit talking in other sports - probably not as much as fighting but i would imagine its because the spokepeople are coaches or managers and not the players.
Ever heard of Ocho Cinco Xeris :p. Chad Johnson is an AMAZING shit talker. Whether he backs it up or not isn't relevant. Same with Chalrenge, FBH, go.go, Ty Domi. People love to love or love to hate these people because of their character. Getting caught up in the motive isn't really solving anything. I don't think theres anything to solve. I love the fact that idra and mistrzzz are so BM and that there's huge racial and national grudges - it's what keeps this all interesting :p
Same question different year. Who's gonna stop number 85.
On February 22 2009 07:30 Kennigit wrote: I would argue there is alot of shit talking in other sports - probably not as much as fighting but i would imagine its because the spokepeople are coaches or managers and not the players.
Ever heard of Ocho Cinco Xeris :p. Chad Johnson is an AMAZING shit talker. Whether he backs it up or not isn't relevant. Same with Chalrenge, FBH, go.go, Ty Domi. People love to love or love to hate these people because of their character. Getting caught up in the motive isn't really solving anything. I don't think theres anything to solve. I love the fact that idra and mistrzzz are so BM and that there's huge racial and national grudges - it's what keeps this all interesting :p
If you talk shit and lose horribly you get laughed at, that´s just the way it goes.
But I think F91 isn´t given enough credit for his outstanding play, Idra was no pushover and other foreign top zergs probably would have looked much worse.
On February 22 2009 05:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
Savior said he will destroy everyone in 2009 . Do people hate him for being cocky or arrogant i think not . By saying does words at least Savior is pushing himself harder even if he won't destroy everyone he is still doing a lot better then 2008 already . So being arrogant or cocky in an interview pushes you harder to perform better if not for enything else .
but savior said that AFTER WINNING a FINAL. and idra is who? B team CJ. savior is who? 3 time msl winner, yadayada. savior has the RIGHT to say that while idra has none.
On February 22 2009 07:30 Kennigit wrote: I would argue there is alot of shit talking in other sports - probably not as much as fighting but i would imagine its because the spokepeople are coaches or managers and not the players.
Ever heard of Ocho Cinco Xeris :p. Chad Johnson is an AMAZING shit talker. Whether he backs it up or not isn't relevant. Same with Chalrenge, FBH, go.go, Ty Domi. People love to love or love to hate these people because of their character. Getting caught up in the motive isn't really solving anything. I don't think theres anything to solve. I love the fact that idra and mistrzzz are so BM and that there's huge racial and national grudges - it's what keeps this all interesting :p
Honestly, I'm not saying that it is a necessarily bad thing that IdrA talks a lot of shit, but then this sort of response when he loses should be expected. If shit talking is fun, then flaming the fuck out of people who talk shit and lose is fun too. When people shit talk in sports and lose, fans go wild because the guy that talked shit got it shoved back in his face. Same case with IdrA.
He talked shit, couldn't back it up - now people are flaming him, it's a natural occurrence. If you want to avoid these situations, don't talk shit - if you're fine with it, let it fly from both sides.
On February 22 2009 08:41 Xeris wrote: He talked shit, couldn't back it up - now people are flaming him, it's a natural occurrence. If you want to avoid these situations, don't talk shit - if you're fine with it, let it fly from both sides.
This is basically what im saying. Guess we are arguing the same point :p .
Lots of shit talking goes on in the NBA and NFL on the court/field.
Boxing also has a ton of shit talking. Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson are two that most people know.
The talk and the hype and the image all build interest and enhance the experience. It does need boundaries. But people should know that talking shit doesn't void respect. If you respond negatively to it, then you've got the wrong idea. It may not tickle your fancy, but it's not offensive or negative.
Xeris, IdrA talking shit about his opponents and fans talking shit about IdrA are not the same and one doesn't justify the other. Players partake in a competition together and that makes all the difference.
On February 22 2009 08:41 Xeris wrote: He talked shit, couldn't back it up - now people are flaming him, it's a natural occurrence. If you want to avoid these situations, don't talk shit - if you're fine with it, let it fly from both sides.
This is basically what im saying. Guess we are arguing the same point :p .
ya I guess looking at the same thing from different angles +P!
On February 22 2009 09:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: Lots of shit talking goes on in the NBA and NFL on the court/field.
Boxing also has a ton of shit talking. Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson are two that most people know.
The talk and the hype and the image all build interest and enhance the experience. It does need boundaries. But people should know that talking shit doesn't void respect. If you respond negatively to it, then you've got the wrong idea. It may not tickle your fancy, but it's not offensive or negative.
Xeris, IdrA talking shit about his opponents and fans talking shit about IdrA are not the same and one doesn't justify the other. Players partake in a competition together and that makes all the difference.
I realize a lot of shit talking goes on in the NBA, but they're always really humble in the interviews themselves. Although sure maybe that doesn't say much, but at the same time maybe it's kinda rude if you're like "fuck this newb I'm going to rape him because Kor zergs are much better and I train with Kors all day so therefore I'm better and I'll win" ... and end up losing, then get ready to take shit from fans.
It depends on the degree. If IdrA talks shit about his opponent and overall has a cocky/arrogant attitude, fans WILL talk shit about IdrA. Whether or not it is justified or not is debatable, but it's going to happen whether you like it or not. A lot of people don't respect the Boston Celtics because of what a trash talking team they are... word gets around, and a lot of people don't like them because of it. So when they lose, people relish in it because of the amount of shit they talk. Same with IdrA.
The PROBLEM is that people here take it too far, obviously saying things like "lol take the next flight back home because you lost" isn't justified and that's taking it too far.
But if he's talking shit, then loses, fans have every right (imo) to put it back in his face. He's basically asking for it by saying that kinda shit in interviews in the first place. Don't play with fire if you can't handle to heat or w/e
But kennigit didn't you say yourself that those are the BEST guys at what they do that are talking shiit before games? IdrA is on B team and not even close to being the best of progamers. It's like magic johnson and larry bird showdown the two best players in the nba at the time would be able to talk trash to each other if they wanted to hype things up and same for flash vs jaedong because they are AMAZING players while idra who has done nothing and continues to BM and trash talk.
The biggest difference is that it was IdrA talking down on F91. If it was FlaSh that said that to f91(which i highly doubt would be that arrogant considering korean culture) then we would acknowledge it more because we all know how much of a monster flash is. So what I'm sayinig is he should act more humble till he is truely skilled and considered one of the best in progamer. At this point it's questionable whether he is the best among even foriegners(I just don't feel the gap between IdrA and the top foriegner is THAT big even though he gets to practice with progamers). Gap between korean progamers and top foriegners maybe but not IdrA.
He's not the best at what he does yet to be making those kind of comments and even if he does become the best, someone gave that iloveoov example where he started losing and was still humble the mindset of a winner. Like Xeris has said..he's not doing it for the hype but he really thinks the players he plays are that bad.
Yeah it's all debatable, and boils down to personal opinion. It's just much different actions and I don't see the need to connect them just because they're both called "talking shit". If I call my best friend an asshole, that has a much different meaning and a much different effect than if some stranger calls my best friend an asshole. The relationship between the two people makes a world of difference. People should just be aware. I definitely disapprove of fans talking shit about the players. But yeah I know it'll happen no matter what.
EPT
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