On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
Savior said he will destroy everyone in 2009 . Do people hate him for being cocky or arrogant i think not . By saying does words at least Savior is pushing himself harder even if he won't destroy everyone he is still doing a lot better then 2008 already . So being arrogant or cocky in an interview pushes you harder to perform better if not for enything else .
are you kidding? Part of being a bonjwa is the mental strength that comes from knowing you are better than any other player.
Usually a bonjwa drops so fast, because they get upset, and now that stong mental state is just gone. In addition you have players not thinking the former bonjwa is invincible anymore so they more actively look for weaknesses
oh man I can't wait to watch these vods. Personally I'm a little dissapointed with Idra. I'm not a fanboy by anymeans, but any foreigner succeeding in korea is a great thing to me. Seeing a player who has been studying and practicing hard in korea not be able to win in this showmatch makes me worry about if foreigners will ever compete again, somehow, i really doubt it til SC2.
I wonder if idra's team/coaches knew about this event. It would be quite hard on him losing in front of them to non pro.
China always has had great players though and F91 proves again that they can compete.
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
I think you're misinterpreting him as well.
Because we only know Jaedong from interviews and what he does on stage, we don't really know what's going on in his mind. He might actually be really cocky and brag about winning to his teammates all the time. Or he might look down on his opponents or make voodoo dolls and pierce them every day.
You need humility... or do you? Maybe half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...) are where they are because of their unrelenting ego. It's just that they haven't showed it publicly as much as Idra.
On February 22 2009 05:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
I think you're misinterpreting him as well.
Because we only know Jaedong from interviews and what he does on stage, we don't really know what's going on in his mind. He might actually be really cocky and brag about winning to his teammates all the time. Or he might look down on his opponents or make voodoo dolls and pierce them every day.
You need humility... or do you? Maybe half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...) are where they are because of their unrelenting ego. It's just that they haven't showed it publicly as much as Idra.
You compare Idra to " half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...)" ??
They: super strong, humble (at least in the interview) Idra: weak, super cocky (everywhere, in the forum, in games, in interview....)
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
The sidenote wasn't in response to you.
I understand your opinion. I think it's deserving of ridicule. At best, you could demonstrate a weak correlation. No causation. There aren't any good reasons to think there would be cauasation. How you think that you've figured out that FBH could improve his StarCraft skillset if only he'd say different words in interviews and perform different celebrations is beyond my imagination.
The one bit of wisdom I think you could be getting at is that players need to have a clear mind and be comfortable with themselves. Maybe you're just assuming that someone who is disrespectful and arrogant couldn't also have peace of mind. Full potential can't be reached without peace of mind. I agree with you there. But it's nearly impossible to know a player's true mind so I discourage people substituting evidence with assumptions and getting on a soapbox.
well the overall conclusion is that idra simple cant play high lv starcraft, even when he does practise 12h a day.. I undrestand this, not everryone is born to be progamer, so
On February 22 2009 05:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
I think you're misinterpreting him as well.
Because we only know Jaedong from interviews and what he does on stage, we don't really know what's going on in his mind. He might actually be really cocky and brag about winning to his teammates all the time. Or he might look down on his opponents or make voodoo dolls and pierce them every day.
You need humility... or do you? Maybe half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...) are where they are because of their unrelenting ego. It's just that they haven't showed it publicly as much as Idra.
You compare Idra to " half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...)" ??
They: super strong, humble (at least in the interview) Idra: weak, super cocky (everywhere, in the forum, in games, in interview....)
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not defending Idra and I'm not trying to bring down any of today's successful players.
I'm saying that the mistake that many people are prone to making is that "super strong, humble in the interview" equals evidence of great skill. Reading lilsusie's blog about the "truth behind progaming", although she was coy about the details, was pretty illuminating to me in this respect.
Idra has proven himself to be arrogant and cocky throughout his interviews, in the games, etc. So you might be able to make the reference that being cocky = not a great player. But that's due to our negative perception of arrogance and the plain fact that Idra isn't very good. If we knew what progamers were really like maybe we'd see that most of them are just as arrogant, except they do very well on interviews. Kind of like how beauty queens will have really nice answers during the competition but drink booze and smoke crack in real life.
EDIT: Nony put it in much better terms than I did.
lol it is impossible to convince people that idra is good when he keeps doing bad . Fact is he is a good player, but I'm guessing the mental part of his game when there are things on the line for a game just get to his head .
On February 22 2009 06:09 SkepTicAL wrote: lol it is impossible to convince people that idra is good when he keeps doing bad . Fact is he is a good player, but I'm guessing the mental part of his game when there are things on the line for a game just get to his head .
nobody is doubting that IdrA is a good player, well I guess there are a bunch of retards here who do that. but point is:
- IdrA is really good. - He's also really arrogant and thinks he's much better than everyone else - When he actually plays people in pressure situations, he expects to win easily because he thinks very highly of himself - When he finds out that these other people are actually pretty good and can compete / even be able to beat him, he goes on tilt and starts playing badly - That causes more losses
(just my view of watching IdrA play these kinds of official games, especially here and at wcg)
He's a reallllllly good player, but at the same time I think in part due to his arrogance, he'll always end up choking in these kinds of matches because the reality is, other players are a lot better than he gives them credit for being, and he can't take the pressure of not living up to his standards. In his mind, he should be destroying everyone, but he doesn't, it that mental aspect plays a big role.
On February 22 2009 05:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
The sidenote wasn't in response to you.
I understand your opinion. I think it's deserving of ridicule. At best, you could demonstrate a weak correlation. No causation. There aren't any good reasons to think there would be cauasation. How you think that you've figured out that FBH could improve his StarCraft skillset if only he'd say different words in interviews and perform different celebrations is beyond my imagination.
The one bit of wisdom I think you could be getting at is that players need to have a clear mind and be comfortable with themselves. Maybe you're just assuming that someone who is disrespectful and arrogant couldn't also have peace of mind. Full potential can't be reached without peace of mind. I agree with you there. But it's nearly impossible to know a player's true mind so I discourage people substituting evidence with assumptions and getting on a soapbox.
Ok. Let's put it another way.
Let say you are Idra. You are a very good foreigner, not the best, struggling to make it in Korea were hundred people are better than you. Then you face one of the very best forigner. You have played him once, very long time ago.
What do you say in an interview? You say that you hope to win, and that you will see.
Now, if you need to say that you will win 6-1 or 5-2 and that your opponent may win a game by cheesing cuz you are so good, something is wrong.
Humility is natural. There is lot of people better than you, and you lose to people worse than you sometimes. So you are humble. Because that's how life is.
If you know you are better (which, btw was not the case here), you still don't say that your opponent will lose anyway, unless you are stupid, because it put useless pressure on your shoulder: if you lose, you will get flamed (badly).
So why one needs to be arrogant? The answer is simple: being cocky is escaping the truth, therefore it means you don't have a well built-up self-confidence.
And you fail. And you get flamed. And everybody dislike you. And next time, you are even more cocky because your self confidence get more and more fragile.
Champions are people with a very very very strong mental. So they are not cocky, as being cocky is a huuuuge sign of weakness, unless your name is IloveOov and you have 80% win ratio. But again, when Oov started to lose, he became much much more humble. Cuz he is not stupid. And cuz, as a champion he necesserely has a very healthy relationship to himself.
my post from the other thread...apparently just as relevant here :o
God, what is wrong with you kids lol. Have you every watched a professional fight? Boxing, UFC, MMA, The fighters are hyped up, trash talk each other to no end to get everyone buzzed for the event. What's more interesting, two good buddies having a friendly match or China vs USA battle for racial supremacy and bragging rights?
I've met Idra in person and he is very modest and not the shit talker that is he is made out to be- like most American BW players he has a lot more to say online which often leads to this "drama". It's not a result of being rude or BM but simply accepting the fact that it's just a game and if (like many who have posted in this thread) you take it too seriously then you haven't done yourself justice.
I'd implore you all to come back to reality and get off the "idra is rude, he started it first" high horse....its just the internet you nerds.
God, what is wrong with you kids lol. Have you every watched a professional fight? Boxing, UFC, MMA, The fighters are hyped up, trash talk each other to no end to get everyone buzzed for the event. What's more interesting, two good buddies having a friendly match or China vs USA battle for racial supremacy and bragging rights?
I've met Idra in person and he is very modest and not the shit talker that is he is made out to be- like most American BW players he has a lot more to say online which often leads to this "drama". It's not a result of being rude or BM but simply accepting the fact that it's just a game and if (like many who have posted in this thread) you take it too seriously then you haven't done yourself justice.
I'd implore you all to come back to reality and get off the "idra is rude, he started it first" high horse....its just the internet you nerds.
Nope.
Best fighter in the world right now doesn't shit talk, he's extremely friendly, puts all his faith in god, and doesn't jump around like an idiot, so your entire argument is thrown out the window.
And if you met idra in real life and he acted nice, its because hes a stick figure that looks like he crawled out from the deepest cave on earth.
He's a shit talker, he practices with pros non-stop, hes supposed to be a "professional" and he lost to a foreigner while being BM, and guess what? F91's nice..
A) If you ever post like this is gosugamers again with you 1 example argument buster they your fucking gone. B) This is not specifically about Idra. Its about competition in general - if idra embraces the shit talk spirit then so be it.
On February 22 2009 07:05 Kennigit wrote: A) If you ever post like this is gosugamers again with you 1 example argument buster they your fucking gone. B) This is not specifically about Idra. Its about competition in general - if idra embraces the shit talk spirit then so be it.
Best fighter in the world doesn't shit talk.
Shit talker got destroyed by a foreigner that is apparently "1-2 years" behind.
i'm going to go ahead and agree with pann for the most part. people lose their epeen attitude in real life, obviously, because you're no longer hiding behind a computer. being a decent person in real life doesn't absolve you from being a complete douche in interviews, forums, and professional games. this is the idra i've seen, and his decision to represent himself this way beyond the guise of anonymity is probably a better representation of his true character than being a decent person to hang around in person. i can't respect that, sorry.
God, what is wrong with you kids lol. Have you every watched a professional fight? Boxing, UFC, MMA, The fighters are hyped up, trash talk each other to no end to get everyone buzzed for the event. What's more interesting, two good buddies having a friendly match or China vs USA battle for racial supremacy and bragging rights?
I've met Idra in person and he is very modest and not the shit talker that is he is made out to be- like most American BW players he has a lot more to say online which often leads to this "drama". It's not a result of being rude or BM but simply accepting the fact that it's just a game and if (like many who have posted in this thread) you take it too seriously then you haven't done yourself justice.
I'd implore you all to come back to reality and get off the "idra is rude, he started it first" high horse....its just the internet you nerds.
Kennigit I'd like to believe you, but if Idra's been acting BM just for the fun of it, he's not doing it very well. Has he been faking BM throughout all his posts on TL, on every streamed broadcast, on every incident that's ever happened? I'm sure you know him better as a person, but it's hard to be convinced when there's no "regular Idra" vs. "BM Idra". I think if Idra acted his "real self" most of the time and acted BM just before games people would find it pretty humorous and entertaining.
EPT
. Fact is he is a good player, but I'm guessing the mental part of his game when there are things on the line for a game just get to his head 
![[image loading]](http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/f91/f91.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/fc/mechanics/images/mf_dragon_a.gif)
