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51399 Posts
![[image loading]](http://fomos.kr/board/issue/1231738131_1.jpg)
On January 13 2009 09:51 mrmin123 wrote:
Today, the Korean eSports Association (headed by President Kim Sin Bae) revealed the brackets and league logo of the new Shinhan Bank Winner's League 08-09. The league is scheduled to start on the upcoming Saturday (17th), and features the winner-progresses format.
The regular season of the Shinhan Bank Winner's League 08-09 will span over 7 weeks, and progress seperately from the semi-playoffs, playoffs, and finals. Scores after the semi-playoffs will not be added to the regular scores. Changes to the Shinhan Bank Winner's League include:
1. Regular Season "7-game 4-win winner" system & All-kill system revitalization
The league, which starts on January 17th (Saturday), will use the same regular season all-kill format. The 'all-kill' format allows the winning player to continue playing to the next round, allowing teams with one or two ace players to be able to be able to sweep the series. Also, a special quarterfinals playoff selection will be used to create more excitement for eSports fans. The winner of the three-round Shinhan Bank Winner's League 08-09 will receive 10,000,000 KRW (~7,360 USD) in prize money.
2. Game schedule management - Weekends & Wednesdays: 1 PM, Mondays & Tuesdays: 6 PM
In consideration of possible game number increases and the personal league schedules, the League game start times will be tightly regulated.
The Korean eSports Association has spoken with both broadcasters (Ongamenet and MBCGame), and the parties have come to a mutual agreement in pushing the broadcast times earlier.
Thus, the broadcasts originally scheduled on Mondays and Tuesdays 6:30 PM have been pulled forward 30 minutes to start at 6 PM, and the broadcasts originally scheduled for 2 PM on Weekends and Wednesdays have been pulled forward an hour at 1 PM.
Only the Shinhan Bank Winner's League broadcast have been altered, and the 4th round of the league will revert back to the originally planned 2 PM and 6:30 PM broadcast times.
3. Entry Announcement: Only the opener will be announced 48 hours prior
48 hours before the Saturday game of every week, on Thursday 1 PM, the entries will be made public.
Only the opening player will be announced, and any subsequent player selections will be made on the spot during the series. Teams will be given 1 minute to decide their next player. In addition, to stay true to the all-kill theme, the players will be designated 'titles' according to their order of play. The opening player called the 'Vanguard,' the second player the 'Chabohng,' the third player the 'Center,' the fourth and last player the 'General.'
4. The 5-minute Setup Rule
Each players will be allowed 5-minutes prior to each game to set up their computers. New players from the team who just lost a game will be allowed to introduce themselves to the crowd, and then be allotted another 5 minutes in their booths to set up.
5. Neo Requiem is out, Tau Cross is in!
The Shinhan Bank Winner's League 08-09's official maps are based off of the 2nd round maps. However, Neo Requiem has been swapped out for Tau Cross. Balance issues on Neo Requiem has been brought up, and there has been many complaints that the map did not fit with the rest of 3rd round maps.
The new 3rd round map Tau Cross is from the 2006 SKY Proleague and the 2007 Shinhan Bank Proleague, and is a 3-player symmetrical macro-based map. Tau Cross provided intense games for all races, and received much positive feedback when in use, thus will be brought back during the 3rd round to provide for more exciting games.
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i hope its a all kill format and how many kills will the stars players get.
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Proleague is great but I don't see how this format is going to flop, especially as a one season thing! Really looking forward to seeing monsters (Flash, JD, dragons, etc.) playing multiple games in one night and getting "sniped" from multiple directions.
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I always prefered the all kill format compared to the current format right now.
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u gotta skate8152 Posts
Wow this could be interesting!
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
I'm looking forward to this - it sounds like it will be fun to watch and photograph.
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I think I would prefer this format. Have to wait and see first though.
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even MORE games per week????
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-Thanks to GTR-2-GO for some translation help
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i love this stuff.
THIS WILL ROCK FOR SURE.
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HOLY SHIT! I love team battle format <3 (if that's what this is?)
OOV, DO IT UP MOFO.
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Wow, KTF vs SKT1~! Flash vs Bisu again? 
The whole thing looks pretty exciting.
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i think it's good to mix it up like this. the regular format gives no names a greater opportunity to play. the winners league can be really exciting as well.
but bo7? too much yo.
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I can't wait for this shit! Bo7's might get a little long, but who the fuck cares. Seeing Leta/Yarnc combo be as unstoppable as possible is going to be awesome!
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This could be a really good way for some unknown player to get their name out there. Instead of tirelessly having to rack up wins over a long period of time, or put up results in msl/osl. They could just all kill some team.
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I love it.
I imagine this will drastically change what teams are considered the best, I mean, now Flash does not need another team mate to atleast win once to secure 3-2 and can go for an all-kill.
Meanwhile of course other teams can set up Flash snipers and woah its so cool~
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United States13896 Posts
So the winner's league results will not factor into PL at all?
I'm excited to see the new format, but I don't understand putting PL on a month and a half hiatus in the middle of the season to try this out. If the king of the hill matches weren't going to be factored into PL, why not just wait until PL is over, then try this in between PL seasons?
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On January 13 2009 01:41 Divinek wrote:
This could be a really good way for some unknown player to get their name out there. Instead of tirelessly having to rack up wins over a long period of time, or put up results in msl/osl. They could just all kill some team.
Or be one of many to lose to JD/Flash/Bisu/Best
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If they use this format... SKT1 is going to go undefeated for a long time.
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This seems great, always good to see players going on a long streak or even all killing
When the initial players are submitted by the coach do they have to contain at least one of each race still?
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This is amazing, Bo7 and NO bad games, like every game has at least one good player! (Or almost, unless some Frozean cheeses and gets sniped by say, Dongrae)
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
knowing t1, they will send out hyuk et al with unerring frequency
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Really, really exciting news. Should make fantasy ProLeague extra interesting. Can't wait until this starts. I'll be a VOD hound for awhile. 
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I have to go out now back I read the first lines, and from what it seems winner of R3 gets 10 mill wons , and it is obvious this format is supposed to favor stacked teams(personally I think OGN is going to do great, not only because of Leta, but because they have a great deal of snipers).
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Bo7 is not too long for the all-kill format, Bo5 wouldn`t work that well
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God damn. I love All Kill format.
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Katowice25012 Posts
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On January 13 2009 02:07 Zozma wrote:
If they use this format... SKT1 is going to go undefeated for a long time.
Not too sure about that, Jaedong overcame Bisu last time and i dont see anyone else in T1 stopping him.
If great could continue developing his ZvP i dont see any team stopping Khan when Stork/Jangbi/FBH is in decent shape.
Have longed the day to see just how dominant Leta can be though, and this is his moment to 1-man his way to the top. Anyone care to guess on how badly he rapes the rest of his team in their training house?
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Braavos36374 Posts
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On January 13 2009 05:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
is there a race rule?
If there isn't wouldn't you have to reset fantasy proleague?
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United States33206 Posts
Stuff I noticed:
Most of the games will count towards a team's total Pro-League record. However, as a bonus, there will be a special playoff round using just the record from round 3, the winner of which will receive 10,000,000 won ($7000ish). The playoff round will not count towards overall proleague record.
Only the players at point (first) position for each team will be announced beforehand. After each set, the losing team will have 5 minutes to select their next player.
Neo Tau Cross in, New Requiem out.
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United States33206 Posts
On January 13 2009 05:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
is there a race rule?
none I can see!
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Well I'm all for this, because its new and exciting to me. My opinion might change later, but I'm very excited for this. I think WeMade and Air Force will be pretty screwed though.
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u gotta skate8152 Posts
Wouldn't this be bad for the lesser teams though?
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On January 13 2009 05:50 KizZBG wrote:
Wouldn't this be bad for the lesser teams though?
Absolutely. Teams with 1-2 good players will do very well, and teams who relied on having several decent players will go under.
KTF is such a steal at 0 points, FlaSh is going to at least 3-0 plenty of times.
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I'm only hoping for IntoTheRainBOw. Anyone know if hes playing?
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On January 13 2009 06:08 rushz0rz wrote:
I'm only hoping for IntoTheRainBOw. Anyone know if hes playing?
only if best bisu mujuk and doctor.k roll over and die
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On January 13 2009 05:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 05:50 KizZBG wrote:
Wouldn't this be bad for the lesser teams though? Absolutely. Teams with 1-2 good players will do very well, and teams who relied on having several decent players will go under. KTF is such a steal at 0 points, FlaSh is going to at least 3-0 plenty of times.
Yeah, KTFlash it will be. Pretty much the first thing I was thinking when I saw this thread.
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Maybe good for ACE so they can make games exciting! Especially getting everyone some games. ACE fighting
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On January 13 2009 06:23 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 05:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 13 2009 05:50 KizZBG wrote:
Wouldn't this be bad for the lesser teams though? Absolutely. Teams with 1-2 good players will do very well, and teams who relied on having several decent players will go under. KTF is such a steal at 0 points, FlaSh is going to at least 3-0 plenty of times. Yeah, KTFlash it will be. Pretty much the first thing I was thinking when I saw this thread.
Yeah, seems like this format will benefit teams that do not do well in the third++ set.
CJ should be benefited by this too.
Their 3rd player records is like meh
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On January 13 2009 06:13 littlechava wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 06:08 rushz0rz wrote:
I'm only hoping for IntoTheRainBOw. Anyone know if hes playing? only if best bisu mujuk and doctor.k roll over and die
ummm nope. mujuk and doctor.k would never been chosen over RainBOw.
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Braavos36374 Posts
On January 13 2009 05:16 Athos wrote:If there isn't wouldn't you have to reset fantasy proleague?
why would we have to reset it, the signups are still open
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Even though this favors teams with the monster players, I'm still really looking forward to this because it will allow for lots of epic high-profile games. I'd also look forward to epic stuff like reverse OCVs and such.
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On January 13 2009 06:30 rushz0rz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 06:13 littlechava wrote:On January 13 2009 06:08 rushz0rz wrote:
I'm only hoping for IntoTheRainBOw. Anyone know if hes playing? only if best bisu mujuk and doctor.k roll over and die ummm nope. mujuk and doctor.k would never been chosen over RainBOw.
Doctor.K would have been, dunno about MuJuK though. I find this all-kill format very exciting, so many games of top tier players like Jaedong, FlaSh, Stork, etc i love it. But then again, it will hurt teams that don't have an S-class player but did well in proleague because of a good number of decent players (i.e. eStro)
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On January 13 2009 07:43 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 05:16 Athos wrote:On January 13 2009 05:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
is there a race rule? If there isn't wouldn't you have to reset fantasy proleague? why would we have to reset it, the signups are still open
Well, can people still change submitted teams before the deadline? Because if not and you decide to not enforce all races anymore (now that we know it won't be enforced in PL for the all-kill round), it would be unfair to those who already submitted their teams.
Edit: found the answer to the first question in another post of yours, so what is left to answer is whether you still want to enforce all-race-teams or not.
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This is going to be better than Christmas.
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Time will tell if this will really be as awesome as it looks but my spontaneous reaction is to jizz in my pants.
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United States13896 Posts
On January 13 2009 06:30 funkie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 06:23 Fontong wrote:On January 13 2009 05:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 13 2009 05:50 KizZBG wrote:
Wouldn't this be bad for the lesser teams though? Absolutely. Teams with 1-2 good players will do very well, and teams who relied on having several decent players will go under. KTF is such a steal at 0 points, FlaSh is going to at least 3-0 plenty of times. Yeah, KTFlash it will be. Pretty much the first thing I was thinking when I saw this thread. Yeah, seems like this format will benefit teams that do not do well in the third++ set. CJ should be benefited by this too. Their 3rd player records is like meh
??? CJ is solid as far as their 3rd or 4th players go compared to the rest of the league. It's just that their 2nd best player isn't on the level of other teams. Only Samsung, MBC, SKT, STX are clearly better than them 1-3.
 EffOrt, 12-5
 sKyHigh, 5-3
Iris, 6-5
 Movie, 5-4
sAviOr, 6-4
Anyways as a CJ fan this format seems to favor them more because of their depth and how that helps them stop a multiple win streak by the opposition's Ace player. EffOrt, sKyHigh, Iris, Movie (and to a lesser extent sAviOr) have all proven at one time or another than they can take down some high quality players if a few things go their way. No one else in the league can claim the depth CJ has.
KHAN and SKT seem to have the best mix of depth and top players to help them do well this round. Contrary to popular belief I doubt KTF will do much better, as you can't count on Flash to win 3 games every match, especially with how competitive the league is nowadays.
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On January 13 2009 08:07 []p4NDemik[] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 06:30 funkie wrote:On January 13 2009 06:23 Fontong wrote:On January 13 2009 05:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 13 2009 05:50 KizZBG wrote:
Wouldn't this be bad for the lesser teams though? Absolutely. Teams with 1-2 good players will do very well, and teams who relied on having several decent players will go under. KTF is such a steal at 0 points, FlaSh is going to at least 3-0 plenty of times. Yeah, KTFlash it will be. Pretty much the first thing I was thinking when I saw this thread. Yeah, seems like this format will benefit teams that do not do well in the third++ set. CJ should be benefited by this too. Their 3rd player records is like meh ??? CJ is solid as far as their 3rd or 4th players go compared to the rest of the league. It's just that their 2nd best player isn't on the level of other teams. Only Samsung, MBC, SKT, STX are clearly better than them 1-3. EffOrt, 12-5 sKyHigh, 5-3 Iris, 6-5 Movie, 5-4 sAviOr, 6-4 Anyways as a CJ fan this format seems to favor them more because of their depth and how that helps them stop a multiple win streak by the opposition's Ace player. EffOrt, sKyHigh, Iris, Movie (and to a lesser extent sAviOr) have all proven at one time or another than they can take down some high quality players if a few things go their way. No one else in the league can claim the depth CJ has. KHAN and SKT seem to have the best mix of depth and top players to help them do well this round. Contrary to popular belief I doubt KTF will do much better, as you can't count on Flash to win 3 games every match, especially with how competitive the league is nowadays.
Also as a CJ fan, I have to agree with the person you were quoting. Don't get me wrong, I wrote a big blog about the amount of depth CJ had (though it was back a couple seasons) compared to other teams, but this season more than any other it seems they've gone 2-0 only to lose 2-3 more than any other team in proleague.
Anyways, looking forward to maGma all-killing Samsung
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
back to teamleage?!?!?!?!?!? wheeeeeeeee
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United States13896 Posts
On January 13 2009 08:18 geno wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 08:07 []p4NDemik[] wrote:On January 13 2009 06:30 funkie wrote:On January 13 2009 06:23 Fontong wrote:On January 13 2009 05:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 13 2009 05:50 KizZBG wrote:
Wouldn't this be bad for the lesser teams though? Absolutely. Teams with 1-2 good players will do very well, and teams who relied on having several decent players will go under. KTF is such a steal at 0 points, FlaSh is going to at least 3-0 plenty of times. Yeah, KTFlash it will be. Pretty much the first thing I was thinking when I saw this thread. Yeah, seems like this format will benefit teams that do not do well in the third++ set. CJ should be benefited by this too. Their 3rd player records is like meh ??? CJ is solid as far as their 3rd or 4th players go compared to the rest of the league. It's just that their 2nd best player isn't on the level of other teams. Only Samsung, MBC, SKT, STX are clearly better than them 1-3. EffOrt, 12-5 sKyHigh, 5-3 Iris, 6-5 Movie, 5-4 sAviOr, 6-4 Anyways as a CJ fan this format seems to favor them more because of their depth and how that helps them stop a multiple win streak by the opposition's Ace player. EffOrt, sKyHigh, Iris, Movie (and to a lesser extent sAviOr) have all proven at one time or another than they can take down some high quality players if a few things go their way. No one else in the league can claim the depth CJ has. KHAN and SKT seem to have the best mix of depth and top players to help them do well this round. Contrary to popular belief I doubt KTF will do much better, as you can't count on Flash to win 3 games every match, especially with how competitive the league is nowadays. Also as a CJ fan, I have to agree with the person you were quoting. Don't get me wrong, I wrote a big blog about the amount of depth CJ had (though it was back a couple seasons) compared to other teams, but this season more than any other it seems they've gone 2-0 only to lose 2-3 more than any other team in proleague. Anyways, looking forward to maGma all-killing Samsung
That's happened only 3 times (to my knowledge) this season, most recently their loss to SKT where they lost to Bisu/Best/Bisu (can you blame them). Other times being against MBC (who I noted is better than them 1-3 , probably as well as 1-4), and to OGN. Three times too many one might say, but that's not that bad.
Their weakness isn't a weak 3rd player, it's a not having a 2nd elite player like KHAN/Lecaf/STX/SKT. Two elite players is a simple formula for success - 2 likely wins in the first 4 games, and then the ace.
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will there be something similar to a team card to prevent all-kills?
man just when my interest in starcraft was waning IT PULLS ME BACK IN
team league is great
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
this format doesn't favor teams with one strong player contrary to what one might think. It favors teams with depth capable of producing snipers to take out key players and having one solid player get you a lead to seal the deal.
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is awesome32271 Posts
On January 13 2009 09:25 Plexa wrote:
this format doesn't favor teams with one strong player contrary to what one might think. It favors teams with depth capable of producing snipers to take out key players and having one solid player get you a lead to seal the deal.
Like Pusan?!??!?!?!?
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To celebrate the new WL i made a fan banner. Its not pro like but its good enough to be done in 10 minutes. Just borrowed from the current one.
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mrmin123
Korea (South)2971 Posts
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=91699&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=
Today, the Korean eSports Association (headed by President Kim Sin Bae) revealed the brackets and league logo of the new Shinhan Bank Winner's League 08-09. The league is scheduled to start on the upcoming Saturday (17th), and features the winner-progresses format.
The regular season of the Shinhan Bank Winner's League 08-09 will span over 7 weeks, and progress seperately from the semi-playoffs, playoffs, and finals. Scores after the semi-playoffs will not be added to the regular scores. Changes to the Shinhan Bank Winner's League include:
1. Regular Season "7-game 4-win winner" system & All-kill system revitalization
The league, which starts on January 17th (Saturday), will use the same regular season all-kill format. The 'all-kill' format allows the winning player to continue playing to the next round, allowing teams with one or two ace players to be able to be able to sweep the series. Also, a special quarterfinals playoff selection will be used to create more excitement for eSports fans. The winner of the three-round Shinhan Bank Winner's League 08-09 will receive 10,000,000 KRW (~7,360 USD) in prize money.
2. Game schedule management - Weekends & Wednesdays: 1 PM, Mondays & Tuesdays: 6 PM
In consideration of possible game number increases and the personal league schedules, the League game start times will be tightly regulated.
The Korean eSports Association has spoken with both broadcasters (Ongamenet and MBCGame), and the parties have come to a mutual agreement in pushing the broadcast times earlier.
Thus, the broadcasts originally scheduled on Mondays and Tuesdays 6:30 PM have been pulled forward 30 minutes to start at 6 PM, and the broadcasts originally scheduled for 2 PM on Weekends and Wednesdays have been pulled forward an hour at 1 PM.
Only the Shinhan Bank Winner's League broadcast have been altered, and the 4th round of the league will revert back to the originally planned 2 PM and 6:30 PM broadcast times.
3. Entry Announcement: Only the opener will be announced 48 hours prior
48 hours before the Saturday game of every week, on Thursday 1 PM, the entries will be made public.
Only the opening player will be announced, and any subsequent player selections will be made on the spot during the series. Teams will be given 1 minute to decide their next player. In addition, to stay true to the all-kill theme, the players will be designated 'titles' according to their order of play. The opening player called the 'Vanguard,' the second player the 'Chabohng,' the third player the 'Center,' the fourth and last player the 'General.'
4. The 5-minute Setup Rule
Each players will be allowed 5-minutes prior to each game to set up their computers. New players from the team who just lost a game will be allowed to introduce themselves to the crowd, and then be allotted another 5 minutes in their booths to set up.
5. Neo Requiem is out, Tau Cross is in!
The Shinhan Bank Winner's League 08-09's official maps are based off of the 2nd round maps. However, Neo Requiem has been swapped out for Tau Cross. Balance issues on Neo Requiem has been brought up, and there has been many complaints that the map did not fit with the rest of 3rd round maps.
The new 3rd round map Tau Cross is from the 2006 SKY Proleague and the 2007 Shinhan Bank Proleague, and is a 3-player symmetrical macro-based map. Tau Cross provided intense games for all races, and received much positive feedback when in use, thus will be brought back during the 3rd round to provide for more exciting games.
I took the liberty to drop/add/move things around, but that's the general idea of it.
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is awesome32271 Posts
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On January 13 2009 05:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 05:50 KizZBG wrote:
Wouldn't this be bad for the lesser teams though? Absolutely. Teams with 1-2 good players will do very well, and teams who relied on having several decent players will go under. KTF is such a steal at 0 points, FlaSh is going to at least 3-0 plenty of times.
I very damn hope so =/
its a big league out there with teams like Khan, SKT and Lecaf.
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This looks pretty awesome =) sqweeeeee
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will there be a playoff to the 2nd round of proleague that just ended? if so, how many teams advanced?
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OMG All Kill is awesome. I want to see Bisu goes 4-0 every game and reach 9000+
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I think it is very exciting format and can't wait but...
1. I like normal format of a proleague and wouldn't want all-kill be the only format used in proleague. The best way would be to have one or two rounds of it (depending how it will work out this round) each season.
2. As Flash fan I am really worried about him. Anyone who follows recent results of KTF team should know what I mean. KTF has no other reliable player than Flash meaning that they will send Flash again and again and the poor kid will be probably playing more games than any other progamer ever had. I just hope that KTF coaches will try not to use him that much. Either that or other players should finally start winning games.
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This will be a perfect chance for Leta to prove his other TvP against the abundance of dragons.
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this sick. just imagine the mofocn savior destroying everything!!!
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so happy theyre only announcing the opening players beforehand, will make it much more interesting
makes it alot harder to practice for matches though.
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51399 Posts
On January 13 2009 11:53 IdrA wrote:
so happy theyre only announcing the opening players beforehand, will make it much more interesting
makes it alot harder to practice for matches though.
just start mass practicing on tau and hope that coach calls you up to play against ace
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cj is the deepest team in the league.
Savior, Effort, Iris,Xellos (lol? hes still there for like a month or so right?) Skyhigh, Movie, Much.
they also have up and comers and soso players like azang, memory, and darkelf.
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On January 13 2009 12:00 mog87 wrote:
cj is the deepest team in the league.
Savior, Effort, Iris,Xellos (lol? hes still there for like a month or so right?) Skyhigh, Movie, Much.
they also have up and comers and soso players like azang, memory, and darkelf.
Xellos is gone.
And no, Khan, MBC, SKT, Oz all have deeper line-ups than CJ (Azang and memory? They've never been good in PL).
Stork-Jangbi-FBH-Frozean-Great
Best-Bisu-Fantasy-Canata-Midas-Thezerg
Pusan-Sea-Light-Saint-Ruby
Jaedong-Forgg-Lomo-Backho-Hiya-Young
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United States13896 Posts
FrOzean is a schmuck and is a whopping 0-7 (!) in PL. How he contributes in any way to KHAN is beyond me. Midas is in pitiful form, and Thezerg isn't a player worth mentioning either. RuBy is a nonfactor in PL. BackHo is hurt and probably wont be back in form for at least 2 months - and he wasn't great when he didn't have a herniated disk. That leaves us with:
Stork, JangBi, firebathero, great
BeSt, Bisu, fantasy, Canata
Pusan, Sea, Light, Saint
Jaedong, fOrGG, Lomo, HiyA, Young
CJ: EffOrt, sKyHigh, Iris, sAviOr, Movie, Much.
Right now CJ has 6 players with at least 4 wins in PL action. MBC and Lecaf both have 5 players apiece with 4 wins in PL. Seems easy enough to understand that CJ has the most depth. It should also be noted that of CJ's 6 players with 4 wins, there are two players of each race represented, and they are all capable of winning vs any race. They may not be strong in each matchup, but they're competent.
Looking at other teams' players there are specific matchups the are particularly weak in. FBH can be taken out by a Protoss player, great is very strong in ZvZ, and susceptible vT and P. BeSt can be beaten by a good zerg, Saint is weak against Z. I could go on, but you get my point.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
great idea imo. Going to be awesome.
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
This is pretty friggin sweet, I missed the all-kill so much.
Quick, someone tell Leg to come out of retirement and do it again!
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i don't understand why in a game where ~60% win average is very good, people are expecting there to be constant all-kills
i would expect some teams with standout players to do slightly better, but i doubt the proleague standings are going to drastically change, team depth still means more than one player
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I dont think teams should open with their best player. The best 2 players of a team should come in at 2 and 3 imo.
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On January 13 2009 13:18 Highways wrote:
I dont think teams should open with their best player. The best 2 players of a team should come in at 2 and 3 imo.
it depends how they are in terms of MU balance, like with SKT imo Best should never start unless the team they're against has no good zerg and same thing with KHAN, fbh should never start vs a team with good protoss
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SO FUCKING SICK. Been waiting for this! It's great for the fans too because you're much more likely to see the superstars more often than you would in proleague.
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Osaka27136 Posts
Considering how rare it was for people to all-kill before, when they only had to win three times, I highly doubt we will see many 4-0s.
Nal_rA though... KTF should call him back ><
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On January 13 2009 12:02 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 12:00 mog87 wrote:
cj is the deepest team in the league.
Savior, Effort, Iris,Xellos (lol? hes still there for like a month or so right?) Skyhigh, Movie, Much.
they also have up and comers and soso players like azang, memory, and darkelf. Xellos is gone. And no, Khan, MBC, SKT, Oz all have deeper line-ups than CJ (Azang and memory? They've never been good in PL). Stork-Jangbi-FBH-Frozean-Great Best-Bisu-Fantasy-Canata-Midas-Thezerg Pusan-Sea-Light-Saint-Ruby Jaedong-Forgg-Lomo-Backho-Hiya-Young
Oh yea MBC is up there definetely.
KHan...lol no they have the 3 big guns and the rest are mehhhhh..
SKT...SKT1 would have like 5 monsters if they actually played well. Current Midas is almost laughable considering how good he was just last season. Canata has the same problem. Fantasy is good...but a bit overrated and still a little green. Best..is vulnerable to a good zerg.
Oz... has Jaedong and forgg(where has he been?), backho...is weird and sucks balls vs zerg, who knows what he will bring. Lomo hasnt been doing anything lately. Hiya is solid but in an average sort of way. Young..has barely done anything.
CJ is definitely deeper than KHAN and Oz, but with people like Jaedong, Forgg Stork, and Jangbi they can all kill teams potentially, but my statement was that CJ had the deepest roster, which I believe is rivaled/surpassed only by MBC hero and an SKT1 with alot of its players back in form namely iloveoov, boxer, midas, and canata.
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So, if I understand correctly, there are now three individual leages (OGN, MBC, GOM) and two team leagues (PL, WL) sanctioned by KeSPA? How are players supposed to go through such schedule, especially those who carry their teams and make it far into individual leagues (Flash, Bisu, Jaedong, etc)?
Can't deny I am excited about the tournament format, though =)
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51399 Posts
PL won't be running while WL is running.
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Not that I really expect it would happen, but I can only begin to imagine the epic crotch-thrusts Firebathero would do if he managed to 4-0 a team. He might break something! At any rate though, this should be a great change of pace, even if it won't necessarily alter the overall balance of power too very much.
We're getting Tau Cross back too. How badass is this new league gonna be?! I don't know a ton about some of the (more/less) older maps, but I really like Tau. More so than Requiem anyway. I'm comfortable predicting good things for my boys over at Samsung--more because they're awesome than any change in format. Here's to round 3!
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For eSTRO, Upmagic/Sangho/Really trio! GL HF!
This will be so awesome =]
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United States13896 Posts
it should be noted clearly somewhere that WL is really a league within a league. It looks like all the games in the normal 7 weeks of WL will go towards PL, with the playoffs being separate and not contributing to PL records.
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so they can have mirrors?
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51399 Posts
of course, it would be ridiculously stupid to not be able to snipe someone in a mirror matchup
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Man STX is going to fucking DOMINATE winner's league.
They can literally snipe just about any player in the league (except MAYBE flash, his "weak" MU is vs Z, and I don't know if Calm can take him).
July can snipe any protoss in the league,
Kal can take any Zerg in the league,
Kal, Calm, And Hwasin both have really good vs T records and between the 3 of them they can pretty much take any terran (depending on his weakest MU).
Not to mention that Hwasin and Calm are also really good vs Z (and Calm vs P isn't too shabby either).
STX WILL NOT LOSE
(maybe I'm just too big of a STX fanboy now lol)
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oh, ok. i just remembered that there was an all-kill match where you couldnt have mirrors. but maybe i got it wrong
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I think this format is pretty awesome because teams will focus a lot on sniping their opponent's players. Of course, there is the chance of the OCV (one character victory) but the likelihood of that happening is not very high. This is because the OCV'er has to:
Play 4 consecutive games on 4 different maps, potentially against different races. Compare this with the previous Round 2 format when line-ups were released beforehand... Round2, you just practice against that one particular match-up and possibly even on the same map.
There are going to be some players, which play well regardless of the match-up such as Flash, etc. But 4-0...man, even the Individual league finals are only Bo5. And not all of them end 3-0. I do agree that some top tier players will get a few 4-0's and even some lesser players will come close (I believe Frozeon 3-0'd SKT1 During STX MastersLeague before losing to Best). However, I feel that teams will have snipers specifically playing a particular match-up against them, decreasing the chance of an OCV.
Overall, another thing I like is the fact that this is Bo7, so potentially more games to watch compared to R2 barring a 4-0 =).
Oh, and go CJ Entus (and JangBi)!
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With this format and the order to the map to be played fixed, I think after few matches it will be no longer unknown as it is now regarding who will play on which map. it will be pretty fixed in coach's mind before the match. For the first two games, team still has its own plan but coach will play very important role in game 3 or 4 afterward.
Why dont they just give more excitement by not announcing the order of the maps played, just map pool only. That would destroy any plans before the match lol but then it requires more on-the-spot decision and more hypes for the fans I think
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On January 13 2009 13:31 Manifesto7 wrote:
Considering how rare it was for people to all-kill before, when they only had to win three times, I highly doubt we will see many 4-0s.
Nal_rA though... KTF should call him back ><
Legends should be allowed to die
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i find this format extremally good idea. i can't wait to see all those all-kills. it's always fun to watch, when someone like Leta is winning whole game for his team - like yesterday in two games vs WoongJin. someone already mentioned about that those all-kills won't happen too often, but still... each of us have idols on this scene, so i bet that for each of us there would be nothing better than watching our masters killing all of his enemies.
the second thing is this format is probablly the best one to develop a really entertaining rivarly between the top players. system, in which winning player stays in game will - in my opinion - reduce mining of all those talented b-players, who sometimes must lose 10 games in proleague before "warming up gosu skill". scene might be dominated with those gosus, who really can take most of the game on their shoulders. remember also about that teams, with really really really good line-ups, like SKT, KHAN, OGN, KTF or STX. chances for weaker team like eSTRO or Ace for beating those tyrans will now be oficially reduced to 0. even when losing - top korean teams still have aces that can simply win 3 games in a row. before - hot player, #1 - could play only one time (except ace match). and now someone like bisu, flash or jeadong can make a victory out of 0:2.
i'm not complaining. i really can't wait for the first game. KHAN v KTF in KOTH format sounds crazy ^^ still - no chcanes for ACE to win with SKT
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As much as I shouldn't hope for this being an SKT fan, I'd love to see July 2-0 Best/Bisu in one match. Sit down Dragons!
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On January 13 2009 13:56 mog87 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 12:02 Jyvblamo wrote:On January 13 2009 12:00 mog87 wrote:
cj is the deepest team in the league.
Savior, Effort, Iris,Xellos (lol? hes still there for like a month or so right?) Skyhigh, Movie, Much.
they also have up and comers and soso players like azang, memory, and darkelf. Xellos is gone. And no, Khan, MBC, SKT, Oz all have deeper line-ups than CJ (Azang and memory? They've never been good in PL). Stork-Jangbi-FBH-Frozean-Great Best-Bisu-Fantasy-Canata-Midas-Thezerg Pusan-Sea-Light-Saint-Ruby Jaedong-Forgg-Lomo-Backho-Hiya-Young Oh yea MBC is up there definetely. KHan...lol no they have the 3 big guns and the rest are mehhhhh.. SKT...SKT1 would have like 5 monsters if they actually played well. Current Midas is almost laughable considering how good he was just last season. Canata has the same problem. Fantasy is good...but a bit overrated and still a little green. Best..is vulnerable to a good zerg. Oz... has Jaedong and forgg(where has he been?), backho...is weird and sucks balls vs zerg, who knows what he will bring. Lomo hasnt been doing anything lately. Hiya is solid but in an average sort of way. Young..has barely done anything. CJ is definitely deeper than KHAN and Oz, but with people like Jaedong, Forgg Stork, and Jangbi they can all kill teams potentially, but my statement was that CJ had the deepest roster, which I believe is rivaled/surpassed only by MBC hero and an SKT1 with alot of its players back in form namely iloveoov, boxer, midas, and canata.
Your idea of "depth" is pointless. Because when you only need 4 wins, you'll never send more than 4 players.
For example, Khan's "big 4" are 49-24(67%). Who cares if the rest of their players are all worse than CJ's(if that is indeed the case)?
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9070 Posts
perhaps I'm the only one to think bringing back the all-kill format is a huge mistake...
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is awesome32271 Posts
On January 13 2009 18:48 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 13:56 mog87 wrote:On January 13 2009 12:02 Jyvblamo wrote:On January 13 2009 12:00 mog87 wrote:
cj is the deepest team in the league.
Savior, Effort, Iris,Xellos (lol? hes still there for like a month or so right?) Skyhigh, Movie, Much.
they also have up and comers and soso players like azang, memory, and darkelf. Xellos is gone. And no, Khan, MBC, SKT, Oz all have deeper line-ups than CJ (Azang and memory? They've never been good in PL). Stork-Jangbi-FBH-Frozean-Great Best-Bisu-Fantasy-Canata-Midas-Thezerg Pusan-Sea-Light-Saint-Ruby Jaedong-Forgg-Lomo-Backho-Hiya-Young Oh yea MBC is up there definetely. KHan...lol no they have the 3 big guns and the rest are mehhhhh.. SKT...SKT1 would have like 5 monsters if they actually played well. Current Midas is almost laughable considering how good he was just last season. Canata has the same problem. Fantasy is good...but a bit overrated and still a little green. Best..is vulnerable to a good zerg. Oz... has Jaedong and forgg(where has he been?), backho...is weird and sucks balls vs zerg, who knows what he will bring. Lomo hasnt been doing anything lately. Hiya is solid but in an average sort of way. Young..has barely done anything. CJ is definitely deeper than KHAN and Oz, but with people like Jaedong, Forgg Stork, and Jangbi they can all kill teams potentially, but my statement was that CJ had the deepest roster, which I believe is rivaled/surpassed only by MBC hero and an SKT1 with alot of its players back in form namely iloveoov, boxer, midas, and canata. Your idea of "depth" is pointless. Because when you only need 4 wins, you'll never send more than 4 players. For example, Khan's "big 4" are 49-24(67%). Who cares if the rest of their players are all worse than CJ's(if that is indeed the case)?
It matters cause BeSt can rip through Samsung's line up for example. The more players you have the more option you have to snipe someones weakness.
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Is the race rule applied here? It would be more exciting if there would be no race limits :D
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51399 Posts
Reverse all-kill is the best.
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On January 13 2009 22:16 29 fps wrote:
whats reverse all-kill?
i think coming back from 0-3 to win 4-3
And KESPA should add some wildcard action too. Giving 1 wildcard for whole 7 week and giving teams chance to use player again. Kinda like KTF is behind 0-3 and they used Z P and T player (T was Flash) and they choosed to revive Flash back. Kinda gives payback possibilities
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jaedong is gonna get sniped by FBH im callin it
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Katowice25012 Posts
mrmin123 f i g h t i n g
(¯o¯ )
( ¬_¬)
s(-_- )z
s( -_-)z
Q(-_-Q)
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after thinking about it, i have come up with some pros and cons about all-kill
pros:
- progamers can display their raw skill. before, they could practice for a specific matchup on a specific map. now, they can at most prepare for only one or the other. they can prep for a map, but their teammate might win, so then the teammate stays. they can prep for a player, but that's only as a snipe. (good for team ACE?)
- more interesting matches, since teams will send their better players and we wont have to watch two crappy players fight.
cons:
- up and coming players have less chance to prove themselves.
- less playtime for team members
- maybe fewer map-specific strategies and mindgames (if the players have a history/rivalry with each other)
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One important thing is going to be stamina. Imagine Flash wins a 40 min chess TvT vs Fantasy, then faces BeSt in an exhausting macro war that goes on for 45 min. Then when he has to face BiSu, he is going to be pretty tired.
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The format is interesting the timezone sux.
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will there be a playoffs for the proleage round that just ended? if so how many teams advanced?
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whoa all kill, can't wait.
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No-ones mentioned that this significantly weakens players who are not balanced in their MUs.
Firebathero, for instance, is much weaker in this format since even if he wins his game, he's going to get a Protoss next.
Same goes for Kal.
Jaedong is going to excel in this format. As soon as the opposition play a Zerg he can come out and kill them, plus he's not weak in other MUs.
Flash should also be very strong.
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I dont get it.. how can a new progleague start when the ''old'' one hasnt ended yet??
Shinhan Bank Proleague 08-09 is still not finished 
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On January 14 2009 01:33 orangeshines wrote:I dont get it.. how can a new progleague start when the ''old'' one hasnt ended yet?? Shinhan Bank Proleague 08-09 is still not finished
Edit: I misread the article.
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Maybe I missed that point somewhere. You say Winner's League WILL count towards Proleague standings? Maybe I am mistaken but I thought GTR said it would NOT count and Proleague would resume after.
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On January 13 2009 21:57 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 18:48 baubo wrote:On January 13 2009 13:56 mog87 wrote:On January 13 2009 12:02 Jyvblamo wrote:On January 13 2009 12:00 mog87 wrote:
cj is the deepest team in the league.
Savior, Effort, Iris,Xellos (lol? hes still there for like a month or so right?) Skyhigh, Movie, Much.
they also have up and comers and soso players like azang, memory, and darkelf. Xellos is gone. And no, Khan, MBC, SKT, Oz all have deeper line-ups than CJ (Azang and memory? They've never been good in PL). Stork-Jangbi-FBH-Frozean-Great Best-Bisu-Fantasy-Canata-Midas-Thezerg Pusan-Sea-Light-Saint-Ruby Jaedong-Forgg-Lomo-Backho-Hiya-Young Oh yea MBC is up there definetely. KHan...lol no they have the 3 big guns and the rest are mehhhhh.. SKT...SKT1 would have like 5 monsters if they actually played well. Current Midas is almost laughable considering how good he was just last season. Canata has the same problem. Fantasy is good...but a bit overrated and still a little green. Best..is vulnerable to a good zerg. Oz... has Jaedong and forgg(where has he been?), backho...is weird and sucks balls vs zerg, who knows what he will bring. Lomo hasnt been doing anything lately. Hiya is solid but in an average sort of way. Young..has barely done anything. CJ is definitely deeper than KHAN and Oz, but with people like Jaedong, Forgg Stork, and Jangbi they can all kill teams potentially, but my statement was that CJ had the deepest roster, which I believe is rivaled/surpassed only by MBC hero and an SKT1 with alot of its players back in form namely iloveoov, boxer, midas, and canata. Your idea of "depth" is pointless. Because when you only need 4 wins, you'll never send more than 4 players. For example, Khan's "big 4" are 49-24(67%). Who cares if the rest of their players are all worse than CJ's(if that is indeed the case)? It matters cause BeSt can rip through Samsung's line up for example. The more players you have the more option you have to snipe someones weakness.
great is more of a favorite against Best then any SKT1 would be against Stork. Judging from our last starleague Stork all-killing SKT is more likely tho i very much doubt any team will be sweeping either SKT1 nor Khan.
I think Samsung will be the team to beat here, they've got such power against Z/T in FBH/Stork that only very protoss-heavy teams should be a threat and its not like Jangbi or Stork are weak in that area either.
Julyzerg, Jaedong and perhaps some other top zerg have decent chances of 4-0ing SKT on a good day. I would even go so far that Jaedong is likely to do it given the effort he seems to put into the game atm.
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9070 Posts
Imo all-kill format is completely meaningless. The PL standing show that the current old school format is doing great job with team balance. Besides KHAN and OZ all other teams are pretty close in their performance. The new all-kill will screw it up... I fear
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United States7488 Posts
On January 13 2009 07:51 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 07:43 Hot_Bid wrote:On January 13 2009 05:16 Athos wrote:On January 13 2009 05:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
is there a race rule? If there isn't wouldn't you have to reset fantasy proleague? why would we have to reset it, the signups are still open Well, can people still change submitted teams before the deadline? Because if not and you decide to not enforce all races anymore (now that we know it won't be enforced in PL for the all-kill round), it would be unfair to those who already submitted their teams.Edit: found the answer to the first question in another post of yours, so what is left to answer is whether you still want to enforce all-race-teams or not.
Yes each team will still need a player from each race. Fantasy is like making your own mock team... like what it would be like if you were a team manager for a proteam of Starcraft players. Not having a Protoss player in your lineup would be like not having a Point Guard on a basketball team or no Quarterback on you football team.
You can build your team to be stronger in one race or weak in one race, actual proteams are like that, but all teams have players from all races.
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I'm really excited for this new format. I think this might curb off all the map specific races and mirror matches that I've noticed start to come up in Proleague. Either way it'll definitely be exciting to have the possibility of seeing top players go more than once. Maybe even a couple of 4-0's =)
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On January 14 2009 00:12 7itachi7 wrote:
will there be a playoffs for the proleage round that just ended? if so how many teams advanced?
There will be some sort of "special playoff/final" for the all-kill round, but the real playoffs/finals will be after the end of round 5. All matches of all rounds will count for the ranking leading into those playoffs, including the all-kill round. At least that's what I've gathered.
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YES!!! ALL-KILL FORMAT WINS!!
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Having a weak matchup can be a used intelligently to lure out a player you want to get rid of on the opposing team as a priority. I.e Use fbh to lure out free or something.
edit: Poor casy...
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On January 13 2009 21:57 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 18:48 baubo wrote:On January 13 2009 13:56 mog87 wrote:On January 13 2009 12:02 Jyvblamo wrote:On January 13 2009 12:00 mog87 wrote:
cj is the deepest team in the league.
Savior, Effort, Iris,Xellos (lol? hes still there for like a month or so right?) Skyhigh, Movie, Much.
they also have up and comers and soso players like azang, memory, and darkelf. Xellos is gone. And no, Khan, MBC, SKT, Oz all have deeper line-ups than CJ (Azang and memory? They've never been good in PL). Stork-Jangbi-FBH-Frozean-Great Best-Bisu-Fantasy-Canata-Midas-Thezerg Pusan-Sea-Light-Saint-Ruby Jaedong-Forgg-Lomo-Backho-Hiya-Young Oh yea MBC is up there definetely. KHan...lol no they have the 3 big guns and the rest are mehhhhh.. SKT...SKT1 would have like 5 monsters if they actually played well. Current Midas is almost laughable considering how good he was just last season. Canata has the same problem. Fantasy is good...but a bit overrated and still a little green. Best..is vulnerable to a good zerg. Oz... has Jaedong and forgg(where has he been?), backho...is weird and sucks balls vs zerg, who knows what he will bring. Lomo hasnt been doing anything lately. Hiya is solid but in an average sort of way. Young..has barely done anything. CJ is definitely deeper than KHAN and Oz, but with people like Jaedong, Forgg Stork, and Jangbi they can all kill teams potentially, but my statement was that CJ had the deepest roster, which I believe is rivaled/surpassed only by MBC hero and an SKT1 with alot of its players back in form namely iloveoov, boxer, midas, and canata. Your idea of "depth" is pointless. Because when you only need 4 wins, you'll never send more than 4 players. For example, Khan's "big 4" are 49-24(67%). Who cares if the rest of their players are all worse than CJ's(if that is indeed the case)? It matters cause BeSt can rip through Samsung's line up for example. The more players you have the more option you have to snipe someones weakness.
But how much of a chance does a player who's not even the top 4 of his own team has against a player capable of "all-kill"? If Effort can't beat a player, for example, does that mean you should send Savior and then Kwanro? At some point MU becomes less of an issue than simple talent. There's a reason why both Stork and Best can put up good numbers against zerg despite being absolutely stiffs in the MU. They're simply such good players that their overall play can overcome their deficiencies in a particular MU.
I can understand depth when you're absolutely loaded, and have a plethora of good B/A class players. I think STX may fit the description. But that's about it.
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On January 14 2009 14:03 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2009 21:57 IntoTheWow wrote:On January 13 2009 18:48 baubo wrote:On January 13 2009 13:56 mog87 wrote:On January 13 2009 12:02 Jyvblamo wrote:On January 13 2009 12:00 mog87 wrote:
cj is the deepest team in the league.
Savior, Effort, Iris,Xellos (lol? hes still there for like a month or so right?) Skyhigh, Movie, Much.
they also have up and comers and soso players like azang, memory, and darkelf. Xellos is gone. And no, Khan, MBC, SKT, Oz all have deeper line-ups than CJ (Azang and memory? They've never been good in PL). Stork-Jangbi-FBH-Frozean-Great Best-Bisu-Fantasy-Canata-Midas-Thezerg Pusan-Sea-Light-Saint-Ruby Jaedong-Forgg-Lomo-Backho-Hiya-Young Oh yea MBC is up there definetely. KHan...lol no they have the 3 big guns and the rest are mehhhhh.. SKT...SKT1 would have like 5 monsters if they actually played well. Current Midas is almost laughable considering how good he was just last season. Canata has the same problem. Fantasy is good...but a bit overrated and still a little green. Best..is vulnerable to a good zerg. Oz... has Jaedong and forgg(where has he been?), backho...is weird and sucks balls vs zerg, who knows what he will bring. Lomo hasnt been doing anything lately. Hiya is solid but in an average sort of way. Young..has barely done anything. CJ is definitely deeper than KHAN and Oz, but with people like Jaedong, Forgg Stork, and Jangbi they can all kill teams potentially, but my statement was that CJ had the deepest roster, which I believe is rivaled/surpassed only by MBC hero and an SKT1 with alot of its players back in form namely iloveoov, boxer, midas, and canata. Your idea of "depth" is pointless. Because when you only need 4 wins, you'll never send more than 4 players. For example, Khan's "big 4" are 49-24(67%). Who cares if the rest of their players are all worse than CJ's(if that is indeed the case)? It matters cause BeSt can rip through Samsung's line up for example. The more players you have the more option you have to snipe someones weakness. But how much of a chance does a player who's not even the top 4 of his own team has against a player capable of "all-kill"? If Effort can't beat a player, for example, does that mean you should send Savior and then Kwanro? At some point MU becomes less of an issue than simple talent. There's a reason why both Stork and Best can put up good numbers against zerg despite being absolutely stiffs in the MU. They're simply such good players that their overall play can overcome their deficiencies in a particular MU. I can understand depth when you're absolutely loaded, and have a plethora of good B/A class players. I think STX may fit the description. But that's about it. would you really rather have fbh than great out against best?
you're right, there is a point where base skill overcomes weak matchups.. but the disparity we're talking about isnt that big here. that and i think you underestimate how much variance there can be between a player's matchups.
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I wasn't too sure about the all-kill format. But the more I think of it, the more I get excited.
The top 10 or so players will only become better because of it, as they will have to practice against all races at once and improve their endurance.
Lesser players are most likely to train against a specific race and/or on a specific map. This should result in epic snipes, so I think lesser players will benefit from this too, as stopping a 3-win-streak Jaedong would be insta fame.
And finally coaches are likely to have nightmares about when to have their Ace player in, or whether they should send their Ace or a sniper to take out another Ace.
Sad thing is, ACE is likely to get 0 wins (it would take a red hot Anytime and Casy or OversKy to seal the deal), and teams like eSTRO and Woongjin, and probably WeMade will be torn apart.
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I would play this out like this:
If I would be STX-Coach:
STX has no real *All-Kill*-Player (no Flash/Jaedong/Bisu) but great Snipers...
Player 1: Calm (or some other guy, you just want someone that is not easy to snipe and plays a race that is suitable for the map - if he wins GREAT, if not - don't worry).
Then, just snipe after guy 1 loses (if the maps are balanced this should work out)...
Zerg = Kal (or Hwasin if the map is bad for Protoss).
Protoss = July (and hope that the map is no *BIG* Zerg graveyard  ).
Terran = Hwasin (or Kal... if the map is bad for Terran).
That’s really why I think STX will do fantastic in this, they can snipe about anything whiteout relying totally on one player. If Jaedong loses whiteout a win for Lecaf theire pretty fucked (well ForGG is there, but else?), same with KTFlash...
The other team I see doing really good is SKT1, they have no good Zerg but this won't hurt them as much in this round because Best/Bisu are capable of multiple/all kills - if Best does not get a strong Zerg to overcome (and there are not many such Zergs at the moment...).
I'm hyped :p
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True, this will hit the ACE team quite hard, since they have a noticable lack of "aces" (bad pun, sorry). I don't think Woongjin and WeMade will be that badly off. Free is capable of taking enough games for them to stand a chance at winning a few matches. And WeMade have a chance with Mind on their roster, and Nada hasn't been playing shabbily lately either (see the latest Stork vs Nada in proleague.)
But yeah, they will have a harder time winning matches than they have at the moment.
Oh! Didn't see they were bringing back Tau Cross. That's probably my second favorite map ever! Great to see it back in action, I liked the games played on it. (I basically started following SC esports in 2007, so I haven't experienced many of the older maps >.<)
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Im so excited about these series!
All-Kill FTW!!
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I don't think Wonngjin will do terribly. Free, ZerO, and GGPlay all have the ability to beat anyone. It will all depend on how they're playing that particular day.
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United States13896 Posts
On January 14 2009 17:56 Uraeus wrote:Sad thing is, ACE is likely to get 0 wins (it would take a red hot Anytime and Casy or OversKy to seal the deal), and teams like eSTRO and Woongjin, and probably WeMade will be torn apart.
Even a red hot Casy is going to lose 9 out of every 10 TvP's. Because of this I doubt he'll win more than one game in a row this round. OversKy and Anytime have decent shots at multiple game win streaks against weaker teams.
This helps ACE imo because if Anytime or OversKy are just 'on' when they play a lesser team like Woongjin/eSTRO two or three wins are not out of the question, and one player getting 3 wins would really help even the tables for Ace. I'll bet they win 1 or 2 matches this round, like usual.
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Depending on how big the pressure is on teams to win, this may lead to huge polarization in skill between different MUs of the same players.
Mainly lesser players, who will be trained specifically for one matchup.
A team that has 1-2 good all-round players, and the rest 1mu mercenaries would perform well imo.
You take the 1-0 lead, and simply keep the lead by sending out mercenaries depending on opponent.
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United States3824 Posts
EDIT
nvm I understand a little better now
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This setup is so much better, it really ups the amount of metagame involved rather then who has the most muscles in their line up.
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Huhuhu, so much diversity~
I wanna see July triple 5 pool a team...
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Will it last for 3 rounds or only for this round
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On January 16 2009 10:14 SuperJongMan wrote:
Huhuhu, so much diversity~
I wanna see July triple 5 pool a team...
I wanna see July owning:
Bisu - Probably the only toss with a *not negative* winrate gainst non-slumping July (this means since his last OSL win)
Best - The guy who gave him the Golden Mouse.
Oov - The guy who lost his invincibility to July and later denied him the Golden Mouse.
i can't imagine anyhting more exciting .
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I honestly think STX is going to perform really well with this format, like some have said before me. If they can just get Hwasin/Kal/July to be good at the same time, and Calm at least 50%, I don't see any team with an advantage over them.
For example, I think SKT is going to do well against Khan, since Khan seems to lack a solution to Best/Bisu. OTOH, I think that Lecaf will do well against SKT, Jaedong can handle both Bisu and Best, and ForGG should be able to tie it up. But Samsung matches up really well against Lecaf, with FBH being a very good choice against Jaedong.
But STX is able to exploit almost every single MU. As long as Kal/Hwasin/July are playing well, I would hold them as slight favorite over any team, something I can't say for any other. Flash might be able to stop them, but realistically? 4 different maps, against strong players, with no sure way of knowing matchups in 3 of them. He wont be able to do it.
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So... I went to my first pro-league live game today and it was an all-kill format (Sparkz vs Woongjin Stars) - won't spoil the results here, but I was wondering how many people are living in Seoul and go to these things? I think it would be cool to go as a group every once in a while..
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51399 Posts
people usually have jobs etc so the only time foreigners go together are finals.
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This setup is soooooooooooo good. These games the past week have been much more exciting than the previous proleague games.
They should switch to this format all the time.
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On January 18 2009 18:34 GTR-2-Go wrote:
people usually have jobs etc so the only time foreigners go together are finals.
Uhm, well it's not like I'm on vacation myself, but I figured... Saturday and Sunday at 1 PM were usually not busy times...
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3. Entry Announcement: Only the opener will be announced 48 hours prior
48 hours before the Saturday game of every week, on Thursday 1 PM, the entries will be made public.
Only the opening player will be announced, and any subsequent player selections will be made on the spot during the series. Teams will be given 1 minute to decide their next player. In addition, to stay true to the all-kill theme, the players will be designated 'titles' according to their order of play. The opening player called the 'Vanguard,' the second player the 'Chabohng,' the third player the 'Center,' the fourth and last player the 'General.'
Do someone know what team chose the first opening player first?
Do the coach pick the opening player without knowing who will be his opponent?
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On January 21 2009 01:16 gds wrote:Show nested quote +3. Entry Announcement: Only the opener will be announced 48 hours prior
48 hours before the Saturday game of every week, on Thursday 1 PM, the entries will be made public.
Only the opening player will be announced, and any subsequent player selections will be made on the spot during the series. Teams will be given 1 minute to decide their next player. In addition, to stay true to the all-kill theme, the players will be designated 'titles' according to their order of play. The opening player called the 'Vanguard,' the second player the 'Chabohng,' the third player the 'Center,' the fourth and last player the 'General.' Do someone know what team chose the first opening player first? Do the coach pick the opening player without knowing who will be his opponent?
They choose their 1st player without knowing who will he play against.Isnt that logical?
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I like this league in contrast with the other ones. The only problem is that as of now there is no way to watch vods of this without getting spoiled.
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If you wait a few days, the VOD's should be put up spoiler-free in the small VOD thread
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good map switch with tau cross
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i still like the old format a bit better, it gives new players and tier 2 players a chance to prove themselves.
ie, everyone's fav hero (after the EMPEROR ofc) is FBH who totally suck in MSL/OSL but totally pwnz bonjwas in t3h proleague. not bad eh?
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When does WL start again? No games on the calender :O
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this trumps normal proleague
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5186/winnersleaguexr7.png)
![[image loading]](http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l213/USXWiNNinG54/ShinhanBankWL0809.jpg)
. If flash gets sniped...
