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Getting better by losing

Forum Index > BW General
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1 2 3 Next All
[Fin]Vittu
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada507 Posts
June 18 2008 04:53 GMT
#1
I think I have a bad habit of "dodging" pros judging by their records on B.net. I really like the feeling of winning by playing people with negative records...

People say although you game a lot by owning those people you cannot get better and rather your skill stays at a plateau.

Is it true that by losing 20+ games in a row that you are actually getting better and not receiving signs from god that you should quit sc?
The "Finnish Metal Terran"
clazziquai
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
6685 Posts
June 18 2008 04:55 GMT
#2
Well..playing better people and why you lost will only get you better. I used to be like that too, but now I prefer people with positive/better record to play. ^^
#1 Sea.Really Fan / #1 Nesh Fan / Terran Forever~
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-18 04:58:39
June 18 2008 04:58 GMT
#3
It's good to play ppl at around your skill level or a bit higher. A bit lower doesn't hurt, but if you smash people that you know you can beat, it's not gonna help you.

I think you can learn even by playing worse players, as long as they're close enough to you that they can take a game from you at any moment
Trucy Wright is hot
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
June 18 2008 05:05 GMT
#4
You gotta play all...

Play pros to get raped and have them criticize you
Play people your level and win/lose half the time to push your limits
Play people below your level to test out new ideas and to keep confidence
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
June 18 2008 05:10 GMT
#5
But mostly play people your own level I think, I would take a post to explain this "tussle theory"

The tussle theory is something I thought up, basically it says that the game is an experience, and you gain from the experience.
If you play player that is so good they kill you in 5 minutes, there are little experience gained because you have no idea why you lose, and unless they point out something subtle to you, you just feel confused and lost w/o gaining anything useful.
If you player a player that is so bad that you can do what ever you want you are not "strained" in any way, and you cannot learn because you are not forced to play at a higher state. These games are mainly for laughs and giggles and egos, but not to improve.
If you play a player of your level, it will be a struggle. You will see hopes and lose hopes, you will have to claw every inch of your way to victory, and such endurance will build you to a better player, and forces you to push your gaming just a little more, as it is that little more that pushes a lose to a win, that lets you overpower your opponent. May it be abit more multitask, or more vigorous thinking in game, it will force you to work out.

xD
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Blind
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States2528 Posts
June 18 2008 05:10 GMT
#6
You don't necessarily have to play people who own you. Just play people that can give you a challenge. Playing those much worse than you allows you to win using the same strats repeatedly. It also lets you screw around and do dumb strats that would normally never work vs players around your level. Lastly, you are more relaxed vs worse opponents, so your multitasking isn't being pushed to its limit.
G5
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2898 Posts
June 18 2008 05:16 GMT
#7
i am a really bad loser

i don't think its a bad thing to get mad at your losses. if i didn't care if i won or lost, i wouldn't have improved as fast as i did. what helped me the most to improve from a D player to a A player is by pushing myself, getting mad at myself and loosing. And I mean LOOOOSING A LOT... the key to loosing is understanding why you lost and fix it the next time you get in such a scenario. This is how you improve, playing players worst then you will help u stay in shape, you will remember hot keys and such but on a general understanding of the game / strategical standpoint, you won't improve at all. Man up and play better players, take your losses like a man or take em like a kid, it doesn't really matter as long as you take losses and realize you did something wrong; and then understand why you lost.

good luck and never ever dodge players for then being good. if i have 2 players at A-, 1 with 50/50 record and the other being 80-15, ill play the 80-15 guy every time. do the same and try to improve your game (if you care about improving at all).

once again, good luck~ G5
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-18 05:21:36
June 18 2008 05:21 GMT
#8
losing is like medicine. it tastes like shit and sometimes hard to swallow, but you need it to get better. i admit that by not challenging myself and playing better opponents that I've not been able to reach my potential. So, while my record is pretty damn good and my skills are better than what they were a year ago, they would be so so much higher had I the guts to lose.

Losing just makes you a better player, but only if you know why you lost and work to get better. Losing by itself, of course, doesn't do jackshit but scare you into playing lesser players. But people who constantly challenge themselves, and learn from their losses and mistakes, are always guaranteed to become better in the long run. That goes for SC and life.
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
June 18 2008 21:35 GMT
#9
I know how you feel right now. Okay, well, you sometimes end up playing people, and losing miserably, and as gg_hertzz says, it "tastes like shit and sometimes hard to swallow" but it is inevitable. One warning though, don't just keep playing people better than you and lose a lot. If you get in a bad mood when you lose, you will only get worse; a lot worse... I don't mean in terms of losing skill, but the as you progress, you will play worse and worse, and sometimes improve on things you already have down. If you really need a confidence boost, just play some people worse than you. Everyone, feel free to criticize me about this, but sometimes, the confidence boost allows you to play better when you play someone better.
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2548 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-18 21:56:52
June 18 2008 21:51 GMT
#10
The point of mass gaming against better players is so that you can rewatch the game and ask yourself questions such as what did I do wrong? Why did I lose? That way you can get better as you will pin point mistakes and learn from it.

If you just mass game against noobs where you always win, you'll think to yourself, whatever I won anyways even though I had some mistakes, who cares.
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-18 22:16:29
June 18 2008 22:13 GMT
#11
How is it fun to play people who are worse than you? It's like playing any game that's too easy, you'll just get bored.

Would you wanna play a single player console game where it was actually impossible to lose? Or close to it? Of course not. Drop your stupid ego and start playing this game for fun, not for pride (because unless you're competing among the best, no one gives a fuck what your win rate is).

i admit that by not challenging myself and playing better opponents that I've not been able to reach my potential.

LOL, even when you're admitting you played games with people worse than you to save your ego, you're saving your ego by saying you'd be much better 'if only I'd tried.' It makes it very difficult to see if you've learned or not.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
yoshtodd
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States418 Posts
June 18 2008 23:31 GMT
#12
I'm going through this with chess right now. It's hard to keep playing when you lose over and over.
moo
ForAdun
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany986 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-19 00:02:07
June 18 2008 23:59 GMT
#13
I once had a losing streak of 13 games and after 2 more wins I lost another 7 games in a row and if that was a sign of god then that I had some huge weaknesses to work on.
Losing itself doesn't make you better at all. It's the 3 golden A's - awareness, attention, action - that make you better, and in order to get them started you first have to lose, because only then you can be aware of a weakness. Given that you don't ignore it (like everyone likes to do, the hardest part is not to ignore it) and instead pay attention you can take action which goes as following: see, understand, solve. That's the easier part since it only takes brain activity and gaming, your ego is not involved.
This as a whole is just a theoretical example and it only describes the ideal case. Much more often you will get to face quite a few weaknesses at the same time and if that pressures you it can easily make you ignore the facts after you told yourself it's alright you're still the better player and you simply had bad luck - actually nothing but an approach to stay mentally healthy, so it's not a bad thing at all, it's just standing between you and your improvement.
We all like to do that, I like to do that. The more you want to improve the harder it gets not to do it.

In the end there's only one advice I can give you in any case: stay real, heads up and do not join the dark side of the force.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42598 Posts
June 19 2008 00:42 GMT
#14
Playing people your own level makes you better eh Evan?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
June 19 2008 00:50 GMT
#15
On June 19 2008 07:13 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
How is it fun to play people who are worse than you? It's like playing any game that's too easy, you'll just get bored.

Would you wanna play a single player console game where it was actually impossible to lose? Or close to it? Of course not. Drop your stupid ego and start playing this game for fun, not for pride (because unless you're competing among the best, no one gives a fuck what your win rate is).

Show nested quote +
i admit that by not challenging myself and playing better opponents that I've not been able to reach my potential.

LOL, even when you're admitting you played games with people worse than you to save your ego, you're saving your ego by saying you'd be much better 'if only I'd tried.' It makes it very difficult to see if you've learned or not.


lulz?

i play to pass the time, not to compete? WTF are you criticizing me for? It's just a fucking game donkey.
[Fin]Vittu
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada507 Posts
June 19 2008 01:14 GMT
#16
On June 19 2008 09:42 Kwark wrote:
Playing people your own level makes you better eh Evan?



how'd you know my name? :0
The "Finnish Metal Terran"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42598 Posts
June 19 2008 01:18 GMT
#17
On June 19 2008 10:14 [Fin]Vittu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2008 09:42 Kwark wrote:
Playing people your own level makes you better eh Evan?



how'd you know my name? :0

Level 18 internet skills. Takes a lot of grinding but it's times like this that make it all worthwhile. Amazing the new guys with your 1337 special abilities and rare armour.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Seraphim
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States4467 Posts
June 19 2008 01:19 GMT
#18
I think he was talking to evanthebouncey~ haha
Hermes | Bisu[Shield] Fighting~!
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42598 Posts
June 19 2008 01:32 GMT
#19
On June 19 2008 10:19 Seraphim wrote:
I think he was talking to evanthebouncey~ haha

Whatever you say John.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ScarFace
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1175 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-19 01:35:31
June 19 2008 01:35 GMT
#20
Basically, avoid people who wtfpwn you, because their skills will be so above your head you wont be able to say "Wrong build. Bad macro/micro/game sense". You will simply stare at the screen and say damn, I was out played. Not a thing I could of done. Play people around your skill level- hopefully better, but not drastically so.
Can you dig it?
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