• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:31
CEST 09:31
KST 16:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War435.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War [ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror TL Sidebar missing streams Bot on ladder Repalyzer - replay analysis app for StarCraft: Rem
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9674 users

Strudel has proven that P is harder than Z - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2836 Posts
December 27 2024 01:06 GMT
#21
On December 27 2024 08:55 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:
I feel like I am already very dumb, cause I give stupid reddit retard take on this forum, but somehow I feel like I can't even understand how dumb this take is :S, am i the only one to feel this way? :D


I feel like most people will read this screenshot with a sample size of 1 person and mspaint "FACTS" written, and assume op is trolling lmao

Not exactly robust data analysis done here.
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1156 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-12-27 01:39:06
December 27 2024 01:35 GMT
#22
Giovanni8
Profile Joined March 2022
57 Posts
December 27 2024 09:56 GMT
#23
On December 27 2024 08:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2024 00:09 XenOsky wrote:
[image loading]

same player, piloting both races, z is 300 mmr higher, even tho protoss is supposed to be similar to terran :p

Your facts are funny as fck. HEY PROTOSS IS HARDER THAN ZERG.

Strudel highest matchup WR is pvz.

[image loading]




No wonder ... In this mu he plays at a much lower level (on average much weaker opponents). But Hey we don't blame you ... Z king of course Is sponsor of "omg ZvP Is hard" ... when every morally honest Z player know its not.
LUCKY_NOOB
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Bulgaria1613 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-12-27 13:50:40
December 27 2024 13:48 GMT
#24
[image loading]

786 mmr difference (according to the calculator) ^_______.________^
ko-fi.com/luckynoob
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2358 Posts
December 27 2024 18:31 GMT
#25
On December 27 2024 18:56 Giovanni8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2024 08:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
On December 26 2024 00:09 XenOsky wrote:
[image loading]

same player, piloting both races, z is 300 mmr higher, even tho protoss is supposed to be similar to terran :p

Your facts are funny as fck. HEY PROTOSS IS HARDER THAN ZERG.

Strudel highest matchup WR is pvz.

[image loading]




No wonder ... In this mu he plays at a much lower level (on average much weaker opponents). But Hey we don't blame you ... Z king of course Is sponsor of "omg ZvP Is hard" ... when every morally honest Z player know its not.



smart man
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2358 Posts
December 27 2024 18:34 GMT
#26
On December 26 2024 23:06 TMNT wrote:
Checked again his IDs today and now his P is almost 1900, so maybe not that big of a difference.

Show nested quote +
From my personal experience(main P), both my Z and T are about 300 mmr lower, and at the same level relative to each other. With same playstyle, but context of "I hardly ever play offrace, and also watch much less pro games without a P"
So kinda weird seeing that much of a difference here Playstyles are probably a factor.

The guy is low A Terran so his mechanics is likely "completed", which means his mechanics is good enough to transition to Zerg without any problems (and good enough for P without saying). On the other hand if you're a main P player, unless you're A/S rank, you're more likely to suffer from mechanics deficiency when playing as T and especially Z.

"P easiest race" is sometimes a misconception. It's only easiest in the sense that if you start playing the game for the first time, it's easiest for you to learn/gain mmr. But when you have mastered the mechanics side of BW and have a decent understanding of the strategic side, and you go back to learn another race, it's a different story.



smart man x2
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-12-27 18:36:11
December 27 2024 18:35 GMT
#27
+ Show Spoiler +
double post
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
Mutaller
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States1051 Posts
December 27 2024 23:17 GMT
#28
On December 27 2024 22:48 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
[image loading]

786 mmr difference (according to the calculator) ^_______.________^


Good find LUCKY_NOOB! I am certain he never left games right away. Protoss is so hard, he can be A with one race and then E with toss.

Protoss is just so difficult, dragoons are stupid af. Storm can miss unlike tanks, and although lurkers can miss z doesn't need to do anything. Reavers require 400 apm, that only pros can do. Zealots are the most micro intensive unit in the game, if you just a-click them they will get kited
"To practice isn't for you to get better now in the present. Practice will never betray you and will always come back for you in the future." -Jaedong
ThunderJunk
Profile Joined December 2015
United States741 Posts
December 28 2024 03:09 GMT
#29
Protoss is the hardest race confirmed. I'm glad such bold science is being done.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
G5
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2921 Posts
December 28 2024 05:15 GMT
#30
I've always thought Zerg was the easiest race to climb the ladder with. That doesn't mean it's the easiest race overall or anything though. It just simply is the easiest race to climb ladders with.

To win tournaments at any competitive level is very hard for Zerg (or any race) and to get like top 100 on the ladder is crazy hard but with so many Protoss players on ladder and with how short Zerg games can be, it's clearly the easiest race to climb ladders with in general.
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands1324 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-12-28 14:42:01
December 28 2024 13:25 GMT
#31
for his zerg account i went and counted the number of wins he got from opponents leaving at the start, giving him free points, ans it was 33 games. He left 1 at the start himself. so 32 games worth of free points.

For his toss account he had to leave 8 games very close to one another, 6 of which in a row, because his opponent was a hacker. He also did get about the 31 free wins, but having to leave 7 times more than on his zerg account already accounts for the difference in points.

debunked?

(recounted toss free wins)
JDON MY SOUL!
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States758 Posts
December 29 2024 04:32 GMT
#32
On December 28 2024 14:15 G5 wrote:
I've always thought Zerg was the easiest race to climb the ladder with. That doesn't mean it's the easiest race overall or anything though. It just simply is the easiest race to climb ladders with.

To win tournaments at any competitive level is very hard for Zerg (or any race) and to get like top 100 on the ladder is crazy hard but with so many Protoss players on ladder and with how short Zerg games can be, it's clearly the easiest race to climb ladders with in general.



I think I'll just watch the legend fight the trolls here :S

haha
别问,问就是查无此人。
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1184 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-26 10:01:08
March 26 2025 10:00 GMT
#33
I don't know about this, I just played vs. a high C/low B Zerg with Terran and with Protoss

My Terran doesn't stand a chance





I switch to Protoss and only drop the 12 nex vs. 9 pool game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH4GC3R8EVI&t=7100

so without playing the race I'm about as good at Protoss against Zerg as I am with Zerg
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8713 Posts
March 26 2025 11:46 GMT
#34
Back in the day when I was around D+ I usually went toe to toe with D+ Zergs, D/D- Terrans and C-/C Protosses. Your research confirms I actually beat C/C+ caliber players, correct?
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands1324 Posts
March 26 2025 12:38 GMT
#35
On March 26 2025 19:00 iopq wrote:
I don't know about this, I just played vs. a high C/low B Zerg with Terran and with Protoss

My Terran doesn't stand a chance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGwJCthWP1k&t=10580

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH4GC3R8EVI

I switch to Protoss and only drop the 12 nex vs. 9 pool game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH4GC3R8EVI&t=7100

so without playing the race I'm about as good at Protoss against Zerg as I am with Zerg


I feel like these types of discussions neglect the concept of "having affinity with a specific race"

For example I suck at protoss. Naturally my protoss results are going to suck. Zerg I find super easy to play because it just fits my skill set really well, and terran I got through grinding it the hard way. Zerg just has super low effort macro cycles and units movement, which I am fast at and precise with. But I am a super slow base organizer/manager and zerg requires the least base management. Terran by far the most and Toss in the middle.
JDON MY SOUL!
iFU.pauline
Profile Joined September 2009
France1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-26 12:43:05
March 26 2025 12:39 GMT
#36
Well, I can testify that the first time I managed to beat computer on my SC demo back in the day was with Protoss, I couldn't make it with other races, and my game knowledge was null, it was just easier with Protoss, because you know... 12 zeze "a" move. F.A.C.T.S.
No coward soul is mine, No trembler in the world's storm-troubled sphere, I see Heaven's glories shine, And Faith shines equal arming me from Fear
HerbMon
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States472 Posts
March 26 2025 14:19 GMT
#37
This is a silly rage bait post. Check each accounts match history and match up percentage to help paint a better picture.
How we will win in the period ahead.
KameZerg
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1776 Posts
March 26 2025 14:28 GMT
#38
Zerg: Easiest macro and hardest micro
Protoss: Intermediate macro and easiest micro
Terran: Hardest macro and intermediate micro
asdasdasdasdasd123123123
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1184 Posts
March 27 2025 03:36 GMT
#39
On March 26 2025 23:28 KameZerg wrote:
Zerg: Easiest macro and hardest micro
Protoss: Intermediate macro and easiest micro
Terran: Hardest macro and intermediate micro


Zerg macro is actually the hardest in the beginning

it took me like half an hour to get a pro level factory timing with Terran (1:28 on 12 gas) after Artosis released his video

it took me weeks to get Zerg builds down

Why? Because if you don't split perfectly, you delay your second drone. If you fuck up Terran or Protoss, you get 8 minerals later by a second. With Zerg, you get EVERY DRONE later which makes your hatchery delayed which makes everything even slower in a cascading effect. This is why every Zerg pro boosts, because getting more minerals faster speeds you up even more later. As far as Protoss goes, BeSt doesn't even split to the fastest Protoss patches and his builds are completely fine.
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States2010 Posts
March 27 2025 07:21 GMT
#40
protoss has by farrr the easiest macro.
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Free 1473
BeSt 286
Soulkey 152
Soma 145
sorry 116
Mind 71
Bale 26
ZergMaN 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Shuttle 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm186
League of Legends
JimRising 603
Counter-Strike
edward85
Other Games
summit1g9173
Coldzera 694
WinterStarcraft688
C9.Mang0264
Sick178
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick705
BasetradeTV189
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2234
Other Games
• Shiphtur522
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
2h 30m
Rex vs INexorable
GgMaChine vs HeRoMaRinE
Reynor vs herO
Online Event
4h 30m
AI Arena Tournament
9h 30m
BSL: Ladder Tournament
11h 30m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 2h
Patches Events
1d 7h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 11h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 11h
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
6 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs Soulkey
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.