someone who is actually new and relies on build orders and stability to get to the same level
Build orders do not give you that though. Like, they are created by pros and are meticolously engineered to counter pro play. They have little to no relevance to lower level play because a) the players themselves have no chance of executing them and b) their opponents likewise have no chance of executing the play the build is meant to counter. Whatever benefit they bring is far outweighed by the fact that they make you think of BW as a game that always plays out according to a static game plan which is just bogus at lower ranks. And then newbs think they can just follow the plan instead of doing the thing that would actually make you progress, which is to turn on your brain, reflect upon what is happening on your screen and dynamically respond to that. And I think getting better/progress is only relevant insofar as you need a certain level to be able to enjoy the game. Like, in quake 3 or quake live you need a certain proficiency with circle-, strafe- and rocketjumping to have fun. Or you won't be able to enjoy tennis if you never manage to serve.
Imho relevant videos:
just the first few games, which start 21 minutes in. That's how you make people learn this game.
I feel like this wouldn't be a bad thing for low rank gameplay, as there wouldn't be as much of an emphasis on immediately figuring out the entire range of possible timings and such. Also before the "git gud, read build order guides", I would argue that there is no fun in that, why do you want somebody else to play the game for you? Wouldn't you want to be the one strategizing in a Real Time Strategy game? What do you think?
You can probably hit A-S rank without knowing build orders if you don't play Terran. Literally learn to build an army in less than 12 minutes as Protoss, or learn to micro muta as Zerg and you're at least A rank.
Also, if player A is better tactically and strategically than player B, no build order will save player B from losing. The myth that you can't progress because you don't want to learn build orders and reactions is just that... A myth to defend bad play.
Ladder should cater to the pro scene because unless you're playing at a level that is competitive in CMSL/BSL top 16, you probably aren't overly affected by map balance.
i dont understand this "no build order" thing, playing with no build order to me means like... "ok ill make a pylon randomly between 4 and 9, then i flip a coin between building a first gateway or assimilator"? bcuz if ure not randomizing your decisions then, theres actually A BUILD ORDER being used, good or bad. Theres no B/A/S just freestyling, cuz a fast goon is a fast goon and a nexus first is a nexus first, no matter if optimized by pros or adapted by feeling and game flow.
Mb ure not using the optimized version of certain build, let's say 2 gate zealot rush, but u're doing a 2 gate zealot rush with a plan in mind, nobody plays starcraft mindlessly, the execution of that plan is a build order.
if u go 1 gate in the middle of the map to harrass, then build forge and cannon rush, but fail and expand behind cannons and tech into carrier, you can say that was a 100% freestyle game, but in fact it was a "proxi gate into forge into 2 base carrier build" give that idea to Mini and in a few days he will have the exact optimized version of the same idea and newbies like me and you can go to forums and post "MINI's REVOLUTIONARY BUILD: proxigate into 2 base carrier" with the exact timing of every detail...
even Snow when freestyling shit for the LOLS plays a certain openning build, then starts trolling, if there was no build, he just dies...
I feel like this wouldn't be a bad thing for low rank gameplay, as there wouldn't be as much of an emphasis on immediately figuring out the entire range of possible timings and such. Also before the "git gud, read build order guides", I would argue that there is no fun in that, why do you want somebody else to play the game for you? Wouldn't you want to be the one strategizing in a Real Time Strategy game? What do you think?
You can probably hit A-S rank without knowing build orders if you don't play Terran. Literally learn to build an army in less than 12 minutes as Protoss, or learn to micro muta as Zerg and you're at least A rank.
Also, if player A is better tactically and strategically than player B, no build order will save player B from losing. The myth that you can't progress because you don't want to learn build orders and reactions is just that... A myth to defend bad play.
Ladder should cater to the pro scene because unless you're playing at a level that is competitive in CMSL/BSL top 16, you probably aren't overly affected by map balance.
i dont understand this "no build order" thing, playing with no build order to me means like... "ok ill make a pylon randomly between 4 and 9, then i flip a coin between building a first gateway or assimilator"? bcuz if ure not randomizing your decisions then, theres actually A BUILD ORDER being used, good or bad. Theres no B/A/S just freestyling, cuz a fast goon is a fast goon and a nexus first is a nexus first, no matter if optimized by pros or adapted by feeling and game flow.
Mb ure not using the optimized version of certain build, let's say 2 gate zealot rush, but u're doing a 2 gate zealot rush with a plan in mind, nobody plays starcraft mindlessly, the execution of that plan is a build order.
if u go 1 gate in the middle of the map to harrass, then build forge and cannon rush, but fail and expand behind cannons and tech into carrier, you can say that was a 100% freestyle game, but in fact it was a "proxi gate into forge into 2 base carrier build" give that idea to Mini and in a few days he will have the exact optimized version of the same idea and newbies like me and you can go to forums and post "MINI's REVOLUTIONARY BUILD: proxigate into 2 base carrier" with the exact timing of every detail...
even Snow when freestyling shit for the LOLS plays a certain openning build, then starts trolling, if there was no build, he just dies...
No matter what you do, you're technically doing a "build order". Whatever things you choose to build, that's your build order, whether you thought of it as a build order ot not. What he meant is that he doesn't think of the build order; he just thinks that he's going to get the fastest possible reaver, or cannon expand to stargate, etc. Stephano did this when he was the best SC2 player in the world.
For some people, it's easier to have a goal, and then fill in the details as you go, Even build order thinkers do this to some extent. They don't think of every individual probe or pylon; they think that you make probes and pylons as needed while you're executing the build order. Some people just abstract away even more details than that.
EPT
