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Latest Update Notes: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/570578-update-shieldbattery-new-season-new-map-pool?page=31#603 League Support! Join the ShieldBattery Discord: https://discord.gg/S8dfMx94a4 | ||
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G5
United States2921 Posts
On March 25 2023 11:38 TT1 wrote: we already have race picking on ladder, you woulda seen that if you spent 30 secs looking at what's in front of you LOL. The child's approach continues I see. | ||
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TT1
Canada10012 Posts
you literally lost 1 game then cried here and msg'd the entire world to have your account deleted and you're saying im being childish? lmao what was a 1 day thing for you has been over 10+ years for ppl like tec, everything you mentioned we already know, ur little google analytics was prob coded by tec, keep that baby shit to urself and understand who you're talking to | ||
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G5
United States2921 Posts
On March 25 2023 11:41 TT1 wrote: why do you deflect so much, i'm just telling you that your suggestion is already implemented, everything else you mentioned i've also tried (BSL, CPL, BWCL etc, it takes 2 to dance) you literally lost 1 game then cried here and msg'd the entire world to have your account deleted and you're saying im being childish? lmao plz just stay on trash buggy bnet w/ 1 map pool change a year and enjoy ur tr10 games, pathetic BW experience what was a 1 day thing for you has been over 10+ years for ppl like tec, everything you mentioned we already know, ur little google analytics was prob coded by tec, keep that baby shit to urself and understand who you're talking to LOL. Well, I think a congratulations is in order. That was probably the closest to being direct I've ever seen you be. Usually you're just a little passive-aggressive prick. P.S. I never cried here messaging the world about deleting my account. I privately messaged the creator on Discord about it (he brought it up here) because I couldn't find a delete account button (there's another suggestion for ya, add that shit) and I don't want spam or shit from you guys because I have no intention of playing this again. You would know that if you could read what's in-front of your face (there's a typical little prick TT1 passive-aggressive comment for ya). I will play on b.net and enjoy it as much as I can. Enjoy playing on SB you prick. Edit: I gotta comment on this roflmao. "ur little google analytics was prob coded by tec, keep that baby shit to urself and understand who you're talking to". You obviously know nothing about coding LOL. My classes at U.C. Berkeley had us make programs like SB. It's cool and good but absolutely nothing out-of-this-world. Get over yourself kid roflmao. Also, I mentioned that in relation to marketing (the other thing I went to school for). You clearly know nothing about either LOL. | ||
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TT1
Canada10012 Posts
you tell me to do research yet you're clueless about so much, 1 of ur suggestions was right in front of ur eyes.. so how can i take you seriously? apparently u spent hours on the client but couldn't be bothered to check it out, then you come here all high and mighty with demands, it's laughable tec is an ex google employee (and he's been around the bw scene forever, even post sc2), that's what i meant w/ the google analytics jab, he knows what he's doing. also i get it man, you're real special but im sorry to say that idgaf about ur life. the value ppl add to the game is the only thing that matters to me (the measurable kind) you're right tho i have 0 knowledge about coding, that's why i stay in my lane, knowing a bit about something doesn't make you an expert either. the only thing you're an expert at is being baby lvl at everything 👶, what i don't know i leave to the real gosus, that ain't u | ||
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jchassoul
Costa Rica72 Posts
On March 25 2023 11:41 TT1 wrote: what was a 1 day thing for you has been over 10+ years for ppl like tec, everything you mentioned we already know, ur little google analytics was prob coded by tec, keep that baby shit to urself and understand who you're talking to Way to go man! keep up the good work, since tec is an ex google employee you guys clearly know what you're doing, forget I said anything.. I'm out of here, best of luck with the project. | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5212 Posts
Anyway. iCCup perks were very clear, waaaay better latency that b.net could offer, a ladder, a launcher with different settings such as a timer and anti-hack. Penguin Plug hackers were notorious back then on battle.net... Right now battle.net has some key things: TR24 low, Auto-MM, biggest player base with - very importantly - the high level amateurs to pros whom don't hack. If I had no friends (of my skill level) or were a pro I'd know where to play. We need more people to tell about SB and convince them with perks that That's the only way I see people successfully migrate to SB before battle.net falls. We definitely can't have an elitist image if we want to become the mainstream platform. Your average BW player has typical Twitch chat attitude/behavior at best lol. Definitely keep organizing BSL, CPL, BWCL on SB for sure. Dewalt recently literally said the only problem SB has is its low player base. Bonyth also recently mentioned he has no issues with SB. That's the 2 best foreigners being positive about SB. That's about the best PR you can get. Let's say we can successfully get all foreigners to play on SB. Then the biggest player base will still be on battle.net. The best players will then still go back to battle.net simply for their desire to improve, that will then cause a chain reaction where the best competitive players on SB will now also migrate back to battle.net and so on. Even the noobs will then likely migrate back to battle.net because of the hard decline in player base. TL;DR: I think for SB to be successful we don't just need all foreigners on SB, but also the Koreans. Now how do we convince the Koreans? | ||
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Ethelis
United States2397 Posts
On March 25 2023 13:57 Peeano wrote: TL;DR: I think for SB to be successful we don't just need all foreigners on SB, but also the Koreans. Now how do we convince the Koreans? spon matches vs foreigners in bnet and then on SB would get their foot in the door. however there would need to be a follow up event or something to make a big deal about the experience. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12024 Posts
With iCCUP part of the reason the scene died there was the Koreans leaving for FISH and then they just kept making it worse on the StarCraft side. I kept requesting things to make it better, but they literally didn't care about it anymore - every design decision they made was because of the WC3 side and it added a bunch of limits, like the limit to maps of the week or the fact they wouldn't add any new maps from the newer tournaments at the time. iCCUP at the time was also pretty much the only way to play, where as now even though it's not perfect people have battle.net which has while small the biggest population. Until you get the majority on shield battery people are very unwilling to be the first people to switch. People are like sheep, they follow the flock and very rarely is anyone willing to be the change they want. If every person who wanted to play on shield battery but didn't because it didn't have enough people switched there'd suddenly be a huge influx of people. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50607 Posts
On March 25 2023 15:06 Ethelis wrote: spon matches vs foreigners in bnet and then on SB would get their foot in the door. however there would need to be a follow up event or something to make a big deal about the experience. sponmatches and showmatches are cool and could easily showcase the improved netcode, but the level of impact is unlikely to move enough people. honestly its possible with the league system to start giving people a reason to play, now what if next BSL Ladder stage can be properly organized on ShieldBattery? of course enough people need to sign up but even then its a start to being a viable alternative to B.net because at the end of the day people will always cling onto the out of the box solution over needing to go through a 3rd party regardless of how simple it is to do so. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6805 Posts
Im not even going to mention what are my issues with SB cuz it butthurt tec somehow. | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9529 Posts
On March 25 2023 18:24 fgfzrzufhjfhgj wrote: --- Nuked --- It's weird when tappo has one of the more reasonable posts in this discussion (sorry, still have to ban you tho). Just to try to bring the discussion back from all the mud slinging, we *are* thankful for all the feedback we get. That's kind of a whole point on why I personally think ShieldBattery is very important for the BW community. It's made by the BW community members who are involved with the community in a way Blizzard never was and most assuredly never will be. Feedback to us means that someone is actually listening and can lead to a change, instead of automatically going through a figurative paper shredder somewhere at Blizzard's offices. But TT1 is right in saying that we've been working on this for over 10 years now (I've just checked, and the first thread by tec about it in the BW Staff forums is from October 28 2012!), and we pretty much have heard it all by now. All the hard truths about the impossibility of making people use ShieldBattery is nothing new to us. We know it's hard to get people (especially Koreans) who are happily playing on battle.net to suddenly stop and come spend hours in queue on ShieldBattery. We're aware that focusing on purely technical stuff will not help us attract new people. The reason why the negative feedback, especially from the established members of the community, is hard to read for us is perhaps because we expect of them to look beyond the first impressions and to realize what the true goal of ShieldBattery is. Which, if I may put in my own words, simply boils down to 2 things:
If we did treat ShieldBattery purely as a business; well first, we would close down the doors a long time ago. And second, it would lead us to optimize for different things, probably the ones which don't align with our goals. When a community members come to us that they would like to organize a tournament on ShieldBattery, we spend weeks implementing the support for Leagues, which allow you to organize a ladder qualification phase seamlessly (stay tuned for more announcements here!), we don't tell them that this doesn't fit in with our bussiness plan. Good luck getting Blizzard to do something like that. I'd just like to close out by saying that my only hope is that more people start realizing what the true potential of ShieldBattery is, rather than what it is *now*. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50607 Posts
unless you mean to say you already mentioned it to tec. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
On March 25 2023 20:38 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Something that makes no sense to me is why the 2v2 community is not using SB. I remember when 2v2 ladder was announced many people got it but then it kind of die.( mb cuz the latency issues back then ) But then they announced the BSL 2v2 league on SB and it was really active again ( atleast the first 2 weeks i was playing ) to die again. I think will be interesting to get feedback from such players and see why they all quit. I myself asked in some public 2v2 games why they not using SB and the answers are often not players or lag issues.( The lag issue was told by Octzerg so i didnt take it so serious. That guy wanna play UMS on TR24 low LOL ) But is weird. Im not even going to mention what are my issues with SB cuz it butthurt tec somehow. Since then, we've added even more intermediary servers around the world to improve latency, so the experience will absolutely be better than anything Bnet can produce (I don't know the exact number of Bnet servers, but it's definitely way fewer). The matter at hand is, as you mentioned, simply getting the players. Right now we have a dedicated few who pop on for games and announce their queues in the chat. I think some newcomers to SB are expecting the Bnet experience of just jumping on and queuing anonymously, but unfortunately we're not there yet: until we are, those players are encouraged to manage their expectations and treat SB like they would Fightcade ("hey anyone want to queue 1v1?" "any 2v2ers?"). Simple, concise, public communication on behalf of community members goes a long way in making the platform feel more alive, and that's how grassroots growth is possible. I absolutely encourage you to share feedback (you can DM me if you wish), but just to provide a little context for transparency: tec as the project head has an endless backlog and finds it distracting when he feels he needs to post defensively in justifying the existence of the platform, design decisions, or pivots we've made. I personally feel more at ease when he's able to work heads-down on a feature or collaborate/troubleshoot with forthright community members (for example, Bonyth who went way out of his way to supply detailed bug reports when he was having issues). | ||
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tec27
United States3702 Posts
On March 25 2023 20:38 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Something that makes no sense to me is why the 2v2 community is not using SB. I remember when 2v2 ladder was announced many people got it but then it kind of die.( mb cuz the latency issues back then ) But then they announced the BSL 2v2 league on SB and it was really active again ( atleast the first 2 weeks i was playing ) to die again. I think will be interesting to get feedback from such players and see why they all quit. I myself asked in some public 2v2 games why they not using SB and the answers are often not players or lag issues.( The lag issue was told by Octzerg so i didnt take it so serious. That guy wanna play UMS on TR24 low LOL ) But is weird. Im not even going to mention what are my issues with SB cuz it butthurt tec somehow. Just to be clear, I don't have any problem with you mentioning issues you have in this thread. The main thing I have a problem with is people not respecting the people that are putting their time and energy into working on this stuff. I think our past interactions made me feel you were doing that, but it's probably just a bit of a language barrier, so I apologize if it felt like you couldn't share any critical feedback/suggestions/etc. here, that's definitely not what I want. As far as G5, jchassoul, etc., I'm not gonna respond to your posts individually because they're not really worth much and they're quite disrespectful to everyone that has actually contributed. You seem to believe we just don't think about this stuff, that we don't have good reasons for the decisions we have made. You can't even be bothered to look at what SB even has before you start suggesting features we already have, things that cannot work on a technical basis, or stuff that is so small a change that it would never pull a single new player. Coming in and shitting on TT1's map pool after playing 0-1 games on it, not even bothering to understand why he may have chosen the things he did, how it helps the map-making community to actually get their maps played, how it provides potential for attracting players where running a more "standard" pool would not... it's just so dumb. Please take your hands off the keyboard and think for a second. Maybe give us some credit for being able to think as well. If you wanted to play map pool like bnet's on SB, you could have. We had plenty of them in previous seasons. Yet you didn't? Weird, maybe that wasn't actually the thing keeping players away, maybe it doesn't have as much of an effect as you seem to think it does. Maybe experimenting with that a bit is worthwhile, instead of just doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? If you want to actually contribute instead of just taking potshots at us and assuming we're morons, the source code is open and we gladly accept pull requests: https://github.com/ShieldBattery/ShieldBattery If you don't think you have the skills or time to do that, we also accept monetary contributions: https://github.com/sponsors/ShieldBattery https://www.patreon.com/tec27 https://ko-fi.com/tec27 | ||
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jchassoul
Costa Rica72 Posts
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tec27
United States3702 Posts
On March 26 2023 10:01 jchassoul wrote: i'll fork it, no worries friend, market pressure will benefit us both. Yeah, I'm sure the community will appreciate the "great benefits" of you making everything more confusing for no particular reason at all, guy who had zero interest in contributing until he could be an asshole about things. Enjoy discovering that OpenBW is not, in fact, a complete or correct implementation of the game logic, is not licensed for use by anyone other than the original creator, and not particularly useful for purposes such as "playing the game with other people". Hope you don't waste too much of other people's time getting to that point. | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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