EPTIn any case, poll question is nonsense and pointless as "we" cannot "fix" starcraft units, and most of your example units are used not "unused".
Can we talk about Broodwar's underused units? - Page 3
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
In any case, poll question is nonsense and pointless as "we" cannot "fix" starcraft units, and most of your example units are used not "unused". | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Scouts truly don't see use except in the way that building a manner command centre in your opponent's natural is done. They implicitly make certain strategies the opponent will never do unwise. If you make the scout better, though, all you do is make the corsair useless. With wraiths and valkaries, the units are different enough that they kind of have their own niches. With scouts and corsairs it's like... both are good at attacking air, one is cheaper and (I think) builds faster and one has a crappy ground attack. Adding detection ability to the scout is interesting, I guess, but changes the game completely because now protoss have a choice to skip observer. No more costly robotics facility and observatory and observers that don't do anything and are super weak. Even if the ability costs energy I think protoss would be unlikely to get observers ever again unless they wanted reavers and shuttles. Zerg strategems like shooting down observers to maintain lurker positions fall out the window against the tankier scout. Frankly, any very good reason like detection to get the scout makes the damage output it has feel unreasonable. I would say if we wanted the scout to have a new role, it would have to be related to the main PvZ problem protoss have, which is dealing with the hydralisk all-in. I elect to give it the ability to land on a photon cannon to make it a super cannon which does the scout's air to air attack, but now to ground units only. Once fused with a photon cannon, it cannot be lifted, but the cannon can putter around as long as it remains in pylon power range. One thing this thread makes me think of is that we don't really have super-late-game units anymore. There was a time arbiters or defilers or stuff like this would only see play in very drawn out games. Queens are still like that, so are Battle Cruisers and ghosts. I think StarCraft needs units like that. The ghost's tech path is the perfect execution of that. Arbiters are so immediately useful that it's not really weird to rush for them, same with science vessels. Dark Archons see more use in the ultra late game than they do as the maelstrom counter to mutalisks though. It's an interesting aspect of StarCraft that makes ultra late game scenarios interesting, usually because these units are costly, but have very cost efficient abilities or can break stalemates (in the case of Dark Archons, they kind of create the stalemates and even tie-game scenarios). It's easy to forget about those roles when almost all games, particularly in recent years, end long before these scenarios ever occur. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10320 Posts
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KAGA100MAN
12 Posts
On March 20 2019 05:44 Luddite wrote: Has anyone ever made any UMS maps with small balance changes, and gotten pros to play on them? I don't think there should be any official balance changes, but I admit I'd be curious to see what that would look like. Flash played on the map where scouts have strong buffs and some other units have little bit adjustments. | ||
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KAGA100MAN
12 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2550 Posts
On March 20 2019 07:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Ensnare was used a few times in ASL, by some Zerg whose name I have already forgotten. Modesty is the player you are looking for. | ||
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Poly_Optimize
Canada156 Posts
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Freakling
Germany1530 Posts
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EndingLife
United States1599 Posts
The one and only change i'd make to the game would be to make scout upgrades available via the cybernetics core instead of the fleet beacon. The cost and build time of the scout is fine. It would basically only change the PvZ meta anyways. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On March 20 2019 09:28 EndingLife wrote: I just want to be able to scout harass the way zerg does with muta and terran does with wraiths. The one and only change i'd make to the game would be to make scout upgrades available via the cybernetics core instead of the fleet beacon. The cost and build time of the scout is fine. It would basically only change the PvZ meta anyways. I have just the video for you, sir. Enjoy it! | ||
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errol1001
454 Posts
I'm not going to use this is as a straw man to say all changes would be terrible.. just keep this in mind. I disagree with the idea of changes to make unused units used. This is a pointless goal. Some units will always be underused. What's more important is the game dynamic - Does brood war generate good games? Yes. I do not entirely disagree with the idea of changes to shift balance slightly. But it'd have to be with a super light touch. Something like reducing build time on cannons by 3 seconds. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On March 20 2019 07:39 KAGA100MAN wrote: Flash played on the map where scouts have strong buffs and some other units have little bit adjustments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ofNb5MjcoM Thanks, this is just what I was looking for! So from what I can understand (could be wrong): Hydra HP decreased 80->75 photon cannon build time decreased 50->40 corsair build time increased 40->50 scout build time decreased 80->60 scout HP decreased 150->125 scout attack increased 8->10 scout mineral cost decreased 275->225 Overall I tend to agree with drone, buffing the scout like this just makes the corsair obsolete. But it's still cool to see the experiment. | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1706 Posts
But I know y'alll are traditionalists | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50633 Posts
On March 20 2019 11:44 ShowTheLights wrote: I'm one of the few who believe buffs to units like the Scout would be beneficial for the game. But I know y'alll are traditionalists I wonder how the korean community feels about the idea of a balance patch. I know FBH has comically asked for one. | ||
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Starecat
940 Posts
Btw Ensnare is really good as it is, the skill is terrifying as it cancels stim DPS and make the Marines sitting ducks for Lurkers. Heh I still remember why I need to practice more before heading into the multiplayer some things on the early game went awful to a point the Protoss I faced killed me with a bunch os Scouts. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3127 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4386 Posts
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hitthat
Poland2311 Posts
On March 20 2019 02:09 Liquid`Drone wrote: infested terrans however do suck Not against Protoss. I remmember one map that allowed those to be produced and Protoss was absolutely helpless against it. Dark swarm them and than protoss goes into panic mode unless they catch them in storm. | ||
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
On March 20 2019 17:50 hitthat wrote: Not against Protoss. I remmember one map that allowed those to be produced and Protoss was absolutely helpless against it. Dark swarm them and than protoss goes into panic mode unless they catch them in storm. because they didnt know how to make DA and use maelstrom or even mind control to nullify it even under dark swarm. but don't quote me on it since its just theoretical stuff like almost all the posts in this thread | ||
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