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I've talked about it, other people have talked about it, it's time to have some fun!
Of course by "it" I mean the idea that if you have solid macro and production you can quite easily jump to a high(er) rank. Usually, in both RM and in ICCup this was around C (RM), or C- (ICCup). I figured it's time to put this to the test.
I'm going to be ranking down an account this evening. Tomorrow I will stream for 5 hours, and see what rank I can achieve on this account. The "rules" will be as such:
- No micro, outside of "essential micro" (scanning, positioning obs so vision, setting down a reaver, burrowing lurkers, etc),
- Following set, standard build orders in each matchup. No major deviations.
- No hidden bases or sneaky expansions
- No harassment
Stream will start at 01:30 GMT (+00:00) at: L Master's Macro Only Stream
Anything else you'd like to see or ways I should amend this are welcome.
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On December 24 2018 06:05 Rodya wrote:
Do you play Protoss?
I will be playing random and shouting.
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Canada11349 Posts
He did. Then he switched to Zerg. And then last I saw, he was playing Random. So who knows?
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So you're going to attempt to play like TT1?
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On December 24 2018 06:46 Falling wrote:
He did. Then he switched to Zerg. And then last I saw, he was playing Random. So who knows?
I was playing random to get back in the groove and get mechancis back. And because it's good as a caster to try and get some experience with all races. Toss was my original main, and is still my best race. Zerg is my current main.
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The way I'm going to play each matchup:
PvP - 3 gate obs -> reaver into 4 gates citadel -> 6 gates -> archives ->3rd
PvT - 21 nex -> 6 goon take third -> add tech and gates -> 4th after 8 gates
PvZ - forge expo, 1 gate star + citadel into temp tech -> 8 gates -> third
TvP - FD, 2nd fact, ebay, armory, academy, 4 facts, cc, expo, 200/200 2/1
TvT - dunno what I'm doing. Open with tanks, expand, add like 4 facts, expand again, add more facts
TvZ - 6 fact gol, attack, expo
ZvP - 3 hat spire -> 4 base lurker/hive turtle
ZvT - 3 hat lurker -> defiler -> ultra ling
ZvZ - okay, not a macro matchup. Gonna turtle with sunk/spore and go hydra.
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( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) i approve ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Turns out tomorrow is a little busier than I expected. I will be doing this tonight starting in .
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Katowice25012 Posts
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Made it to E today. So far results are promising. Quite a fun wins and only 5 losses, those coming to a B player, 2 C players, one where I messed up and played super greedy, and one to an E TvT guy that made hidden expos and lots of tanks. (Turns out A moving doesn't work very well against sieged tanks in TvT)
Pretty sure this will go to D. Less confident of C.
I will be doing this again tomorrow if I have time, otherwise it will happen the day after XMas.
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On December 24 2018 17:02 L_Master wrote:
Made it to E today. So far results are promising. Quite a fun wins and only 5 losses, those coming to a B player, 2 C players, one where I messed up and played super greedy, and one to an E TvT guy that made hidden expos and lots of tanks. (Turns out A moving doesn't work very well against sieged tanks in TvT)
Pretty sure this will go to D. Less confident of C.
I will be doing this again tomorrow if I have time, otherwise it will happen the day after XMas.
surely you should be allowed to seige up right?
Anyway this looks like an interesting experiment!
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Proper siege pushing is not 'just solid macro'. Neither are attack timings based on scouting.
I do believe in the message behind: "solid macro will get you really far," but I've done too many stupid attacks myself which strategically or tactically make so little sense that I throw away an entire army for nothing... It is also hard to purposefully play without the game sense that you have acquired in all the years you've played to really simulate a 'just solid macro' style.
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All matchups:
- you can't base your push timing on his expansion timing
- Don't take advantage of the terrain.
TvP
- FD push requires micro; should do siege expand.
- 200 2/1 push with only solid macro: so no vessels to emp arbiters: you will get stasised or recalled
- Either a-move without the perfect retreat-and-siege move, or very slow siege push.
TvT
- you can't determine which locations can be pushed or not
- you can't edge forward with tanks using scans/wraiths or floating rax
TvZ
- no irridiate
- 6 fac gols is actually a great just-macro build
If you can manage to really tone done your play to just macro, I think this can reveal what else is required to not fumble like a vanilla A.I.
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On December 24 2018 18:28 Navane wrote:
All matchups:
- you can't base your push timing on his expansion timing
- Don't take advantage of the terrain.
TvP
- FD push requires micro; should do siege expand.
- 200 2/1 push with only solid macro: so no vessels to emp arbiters: you will get stasised or recalled
- Either a-move without the perfect retreat-and-siege move, or very slow siege push.
TvT
- you can't determine which locations can be pushed or not
- you can't edge forward with tanks using scans/wraiths or floating rax
TvZ
- no irridiate
- 6 fac gols is actually a great just-macro build
If you can manage to really tone done your play to just macro, I think this can reveal what else is required to not fumble like a vanilla A.I.
Whoa ! Good post Navane !
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tvt is going to suck so badly.
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deleted due to poor quoting understanding
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On December 24 2018 18:00 Navane wrote:
I do believe in the message behind: "solid macro will get you really far," but I've done too many stupid attacks myself which strategically or tactically make so little sense that I throw away an entire army for nothing... It is also hard to purposefully play without the game sense that you have acquired in all the years you've played to really simulate a 'just solid macro' style.
I echo this. Your message about macro is an important one to spread. Once people hit their C level through macro, just be aware that you need to then explore timing attacks, harass, etc. in order to develop 'game sense'. I was devoid of game sense for too long!
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On December 24 2018 07:25 EndingLife wrote:
So you're going to attempt to play like TT1?
LOL brilliant
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On December 24 2018 18:28 Navane wrote:
All matchups:
- you can't base your push timing on his expansion timing
- Don't take advantage of the terrain.
TvP
- FD push requires micro; should do siege expand.
- 200 2/1 push with only solid macro: so no vessels to emp arbiters: you will get stasised or recalled
- Either a-move without the perfect retreat-and-siege move, or very slow siege push.
TvT
- you can't determine which locations can be pushed or not
- you can't edge forward with tanks using scans/wraiths or floating rax
TvZ
- no irridiate
- 6 fac gols is actually a great just-macro build
If you can manage to really tone done your play to just macro, I think this can reveal what else is required to not fumble like a vanilla A.I.
This is pretty close to what I am doing. I'm not making any real build adjustments, as above. Basically just macro up and start a moving on the map taking expansions at the specified time.
Doing it this way of course is a worse simulation of what a newer player just nailing macro would do because they would actually be seiging in TvP engagements and TvT ones, using defiler in ZvT, and of course making some general BO adjustments.
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On December 24 2018 22:00 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
tvt is going to suck so badly.
It's quite frustrating. Especially against early aggression with these kinds of handicaps. Same with ZvZ to early ling attacks
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You should be allowed dropships in TvT. That way you can macro up and just send groups of drop ships over siege lines. Just mass unload and call it good, go back to macroing up more tanks/dropships.
Good luck with zvz... Perhaps fast expand into spore defense into hydra?
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Canada11349 Posts
On December 25 2018 02:02 L_Master wrote:It's quite frustrating. Especially against early aggression with these kinds of handicaps. Same with ZvZ to early ling attacks
I think that's exactly the thing though. It's true that a new player mainly needs to work on macro because by default a lot of people run around with one control group of commandos. However at some point you need to learn to deal with all the early aggression busts else you will never get to the rest of the macro part of the game. I've died to a lot of 6 pools vs FE and hydra busts and early factory pushes and zealot rushes before figuring out what it takes to survive.
Fun experiment though. Guess I missed this one though.
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On December 25 2018 06:40 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2018 02:02 L_Master wrote:On December 24 2018 22:00 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
tvt is going to suck so badly. It's quite frustrating. Especially against early aggression with these kinds of handicaps. Same with ZvZ to early ling attacks I think that's exactly the thing though. It's true that a new player mainly needs to work on macro because by default a lot of people run around with one control group of commandos. However at some point you need to learn to deal with all the early aggression busts else you will never get to the rest of the macro part of the game. I've died to a lot of 6 pools vs FE and hydra busts and early factory pushes and zealot rushes before figuring out what it takes to survive. Fun experiment though. Guess I missed this one though.
Great job with BSL5 ZZZero! i enjoyed every moment of it!
Get Lmaster to cast proleague next season pls ^_^!
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On December 26 2018 06:27 fouad2500 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2018 06:40 Falling wrote:On December 25 2018 02:02 L_Master wrote:On December 24 2018 22:00 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
tvt is going to suck so badly. It's quite frustrating. Especially against early aggression with these kinds of handicaps. Same with ZvZ to early ling attacks I think that's exactly the thing though. It's true that a new player mainly needs to work on macro because by default a lot of people run around with one control group of commandos. However at some point you need to learn to deal with all the early aggression busts else you will never get to the rest of the macro part of the game. I've died to a lot of 6 pools vs FE and hydra busts and early factory pushes and zealot rushes before figuring out what it takes to survive. Fun experiment though. Guess I missed this one though. Great job with BSL5 ZZZero! i enjoyed every moment of it! Get Lmaster to cast proleague next season pls ^_^!
Appreciate the support! However....wrong thread? 
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This will be continuing today starting in 1hr 15min at 22:00 GMT (+00:00)
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Katowice25012 Posts
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Well, we got to D. 1419 points i think. Was still winning the majority of my games. So yea, about what I would have thought, if you follow standard, safe builds, you'll cruise up to at least D, if not C.
Definitely works better in some MU than others (TvT is brutal), especially good in ZvP, PvT, TvZ (pure mass gol). Worked much better than I expected in PvP despite not ever getting storm and crawling reavers across the map or just dropping them down with a shuttle and then no micro. All of those MUs feel like they could easily go C. ZvZ is just wierd, but that's normally the one non macro MU. ZvT would go to at least D, but without having a little comfort it might be hard to take a third, and you'll definitely lose some games to drops. PvZ worked okay as well, but it was painful having to suicide so hard into lurkers and watching zealots evaporate. TvP was a mixed bag. I think there are some games you would lose against aggressive tosses, but I still got some wins despite that and despite no sieging all battles once maxed.
Bottom line, if you focus only on macro you'll 100% reach D if you can hit good macro timings, max, and a move with max and good macro on reinforcements. Quite possibly C.
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EPT
