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The dark side of Sea

Forum Index > BW General
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lemmata
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
468 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-09 20:40:45
September 09 2017 20:36 GMT
#1
At the moment that sentence is being written, I have not seen sufficient evidence to definitively conclude that the pro gamer Yeon Bo-sung (a.k.a. Sea) is guilty of sexual harassment or physical assault.

However, I have seen evidence to definitively conclude that he has acted in a way that would lead many others to definitively conclude, justly or unjustly, that he is guilty of such misconduct.

This makes it reasonable for sponsors to demand that Sea be banned from the tournament from which they hope to generate positive publicity for their brands. Even if it is ultimately revealed that Sea is innocent, there is a significant risk that the media coverage of the ASL in the interim would be largely negative. For the employees of these sponsors who decided that sponsoring the ASL would be an effective form of marketing, the realization of such a scenario could even lead to the loss of their jobs.

1) We do not yet know whether or not Sea is guilty of committing immoral acts.
2) We do know that Sea very publicly acted in ways that would invite suspicion of such acts.
3) The sponsors are justified in removing Sea from the ASL even in the absence of confirmation.

From this, we can definitively conclude that Sea is an idiot. Perhaps he is an idiot who has been unfairly pilloried, but he is an idiot nevertheless.

I applaud the removal of Sea from this ASL and have the following question: What took you so long?

Sea has been sullying the reputation of pro gamers with his public misconduct for many years now. The only difference is that the launch of SC:R has brought more eyeballs.

I have discussed these actions with others here on TL.net via private messages over the years. In light of the latest controversy invovling Sea, I feel that the time is right to introduce the foreign StarCraft community to the dark side of Sea and the post-KeSPA StarCraft era in Korea. The foreign community needs to know this. Blizzard needs to know this going forward when sanctioning tournaments. There are truly wonderful streamers and pro gamers who have kept the community going during the pre-SC:R years. There are also people like Sea who have disgraced the community repeatedly and attract viewers through his questionable conduct.

None of what I am about to write is a secret. Everything that follows comes from what was seen by the public on past AfreecaTV streams. This isn't some secret info obtained through back-room conversations.

Far more disturbing to me is this: Sea has fraternized with individuals who publicly admitted to gambling on his games in the post-KeSPA era and even gave them insider information that may have moved the lines.

Here is the incident in question, which was streamed live by Sea himself. Since I saw the stream (as did many others), this is not second-hand information. After he lost to Piano in the group stage of the HungryApp Starz League with Kongdoo, Sea had a guest who called himself Jo Jeho on his stream. Jo Jeho, whose real name is Mo Yeongtaek, was someone who had made a habit of publicly boasting about his illegal bets on StarCraft. Mr. Mo was a so-called “named” (i.e., famous) personality to Korean viewers of Sea’s streams because he had donated much money (in the form of AfreecaTV’s star balloons) to many former MBC team members, including Sea. On this stream, Mr. Mo boasted about making a large sum of money by betting against Sea in his match with Piano. Mr. Mo also thanked Sea for providing him with a piece of insider information that he put to good use. Sea apparently had an eye ailment that required treatment prior to his game against Piano. If you watch the VOD of the game, you can hear the Korean casters mentioning that Sea’s eye issue may affect the game. Of course, by that time, Mr. Mo would have locked in favorable betting odds.

So here’s what we know:

1) Sea fraternized Mr. Mo, who illegally bet on his (Sea’s) games.
2) Sea gave Mr. Mo insider information about Sea’s eye ailment and used it to illegally bet against Sea.
3) Mr. Mo had donated many balloons to Sea and other pro gamers.
4) Sea continued to fraternize with Mr. Mo afterwards.

This Mr. Mo was not a just a comic figure. He would later be banned several times by AfreecaTV for a variety of distasteful actions, including harassing female streamers.

Mr. Mo would continue to cast a shadow over Afreeca until the infamous nuking incidents that shook up the post-KeSPA StarCraft scene. During these incidents, which took place in January 2016, multiple StarCraft streams were shut down by DoS (denial of service) attacks that employed packet flooding. These so-called “nuking” attacks were accompanied by demands related that Mr. Mo be unbanned from some streams and allowed into online game rooms as a real-time observer of “spon” matches (i.e., sponsored by individual fans using AfreecaTV star balloons as the prize) between pro gamers. These attacks did not target the pro gamers friendly with Mr. Mo. These DoS attacks even led to the cancellation of a match sponsored by Danawa.com, a price-comparison shopping site. Most pro gamers capitulated to the demands of the attacker. The minor streamers had their entire livelihoods threatened.

The purported attacker boasted that he would never be caught. After all, pro gamers have little formal education and have no idea how these things work. However, there was one person who refused to give in. That was former Sparkyz coach Zeus (Jeon Tae-gyu). His wife comes from a well-to-do family and has connections to good lawyers and know how to work the levers of society. In an emotional stream that took place in the aftermath, Zeus said that he swallowed his pride as a man to seek help from his wife’s family. He eventually secured the help of experts who were able to track down the attacker. It turned out that the attacker was not very technologically advanced. The DoS attacks were not distributed! In other words, they were not launched from multiple sources, which would make it difficult to locate the attacker, but a single one.

There are many things that are amazing about this incident, but perhaps the most telling is this. Zeus said that he secretly withheld from Kongdoo (and other pro gamers) part of the evidence that he had acquired. He said that this was because he suspected that some of these pro gamers would share the evidence with the attacker, which would allow him an opportunity to counter it. This how deeply embedded the attacker was in the post-KeSPA StarCraft scene at that point! At one point Jaehoon, a pro gamer who, like Sea, was friendly with Mr. Mo, joked that Mr. Mo should only nuke him when he was losing a match so that it would have to be replayed.

At this point, Zeus revealed enough information to show that he had tracked down the attacker and demanded a handwritten apology from the attacker with a promise to never set foot in the StarCraft scene again. At this point, guess who uploaded a handwritten apology? None other than Mr. Mo, who had already been the prime suspect. Unfortunately, the apology turned out to a parody of a famous apology letter written by Kim Dae-jung, who was the leader of the democratic movement in South Korea. At that point in time, Kim was sentenced to death by South Korean military dictator Chun Doo-hwan after being framed for conspiracy to commit treason by fomenting rebellion under the direction of North Korea. The international community opposed this blatant fascist action and demanded that Kim be freed. At this point, Chun coerced a letter of apology out of Kim in return for allowing him to travel to the United States to receive medical treatment. In other words, Mr. Mo’s apology was slyly implying that it was being made under duress and not a sincere one.

Having discovered the insincerity of the apology, our hero Zeus was furious and promised to bring the force of the legal process upon the attacker. Not long afterwards, Mr. Mo essentially disappeared from the StarCraft scene and barely a peep has been heard from him since. The logical conclusion is that Mr. Mo was indeed the attacker with high probability.

This is the kind of person with whom Sea was frequently fraternizing on stream.

Sea, along with Pusan, has also been responsible for damaging the reputation of the pro gamer community as a whole. For example, I have seen him on stream openly talk about how MBC Protoss players would frequent “massage parlors”, which most Koreans will understand as establishments that provide prostitution. I have also seen him crudely joke on stream about excessive auto-erotic stimulation taking place in the showers of the MBC team house leading to the clogging of drains by an accumulation of bodily fluids.

I believe that this was the kind of conduct that Stork was speaking about when he criticized streamers for destroying the public image of pro gamers.

The story does not end here. Mr. Mo, in addition to being an avid gambler, is a member of a far-right political community web site called Ilbe. This is something Mr. Mo admits himself. To give a sense of how extreme Ilbe is, think of a Neo-Nazi web site like Stormfront. Being a member of such a community would have a negative impact on your job and dating prospects. At one point, Yellow (Hong Jin-ho) was accused of using Ilbe lingo, which he vehemently denied because that would have led to the end of his career as a public figure. In the aftermath, the computer programmer who co-founded Kongdoo with Yellow ended up creating an Ilbe dictionary to help people avoid accidentally using Ilbe lingo.

Why is this important? It is important because Sea gave a platform for Mr. Mo to spread his Ilbe ideology. For example, Sea once streamed with Mr. Mo as a guest and gave him the platform to spread the far-right lie that the Gwangju Democratic Movement was a riotous rebellion sponsored by communists. Ironically, Mr. Mo cited faulty translations of the word “uprising” used in UNESCO’s documents on the incident to justify his point. If you read the actual UNESCO document, it says:

Students and citizens from across the country were enraged by the situation and took to the streets in protest against the government. On May 18th, 1980 the people of Gwangju passionately protested against the nationwide imposition of martial law. The new military government responsible for the coup dispatched special force paratroopers to Gwangju in order to suppress a peaceful protest led by university students and citizens.

The paratroopers brutally and randomly assaulted men and women, old and young, regardless of whether or not they possessed sticks. Such attacks aggravated the situation further, and more and more people joined the demonstrations.


In Korea, being a denier of the Gwangju Democratic Movement is somewhat like being a Holocaust denier. You can see why given that many innocent people were indiscriminately killed by the military for resisting dictatorship. This is the kind of message that Sea was endorsing in his stream.

While the recent conduct of Sea is suspicious, we have not confirmed that sexual harassment occurred. On the other hand, I have laid out the case here that there are many cases of confirmed misconduct that are bad enough for the community to disassociate itself from bad publicity landmines like Sea.

May StarCraft and the streamers who conduct themselves properly in public prosper. They do not deserved to be lumped in together with the questionable personalities in the community.

Peace.
Judgement
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands152 Posts
September 09 2017 20:51 GMT
#2
To accuse someone that they may or may not have done something without giving evidence(screenshots videos pictures statements from other people in writting) and just accept that your words are the truth.

Okay

"What good fortune for goverments that the people do not think."
aFF]ZuluNAtion[
Profile Joined March 2009
Poland173 Posts
September 09 2017 20:53 GMT
#3
Can someone tl;dr ? "Thanks from mountain".
AKA: Poezja[T4], Poegim
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
September 09 2017 20:56 GMT
#4
korean society at its finest... blowing stuff gigantically out of proportion
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
September 09 2017 21:08 GMT
#5
As Mr. Yum's attorney, I would like to let you all know that my client, Mr. Yum Bo Sung, has never willingly engaged in any criminal behavior, and has always acted within the boundaries of the law. That being said, I am asking that this libelous OP be taken down immediately, as it is wrongfully damaging to the reputation of Mr. Yum.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
lemmata
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
468 Posts
September 09 2017 21:09 GMT
#6
On September 10 2017 05:51 Judgement wrote:
To accuse someone that they may or may not have done something without giving evidence(screenshots videos pictures statements from other people in writting) and just accept that your words are the truth.

Okay


I am giving eyewitness testimony. "I saw Bob punch Jim in the mouth at 2am last night." I can be free to say it without forcing you to believe it. As you are doing here, you are free to disregard it.

How many of us are capturing the streams we are watching before something crazy is done? That said, in messages that someone else on this site 2 years ago, I included YouTube links to someone else's video captures of the eye ailment-related stream. Unfortunately, those videos have since been removed.

Everything else, especially the nuking stuff, can be found with enough Google-fu in Korean. Make of it what you will.
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-09 21:16:35
September 09 2017 21:12 GMT
#7
On September 10 2017 05:53 aFF]ZuluNAtion[ wrote:
Can someone tl;dr ? "Thanks from mountain".


Apparently Sea has repeatedly had a shady character named Mr Mo on his stream. This Mr Mo is supposed to have been involved in all kinds of shady and perhaps illegal business (majority of the post is about Mr Mo). Sea also has made lewd comments about progamer houses (like trips to "massage parlors") which might give pro gamers a bad image.

I tried googling this Mr Mo guy (other names Jo Jeho and Mo Yeongtaek) but nothing comes up... I guess you have to be able to read Korean.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-09 21:18:34
September 09 2017 21:14 GMT
#8
On September 10 2017 05:56 onlystar wrote:
korean society at its finest... blowing stuff gigantically out of proportion

Yes, because the United States never does this...

But yea, when it comes down to it, it's really not a big deal.

Especially the crap about massage parlors and masturbation. Who cares?

Also I don't see how this "destroys the public image of gamers".
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
Judgement
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands152 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-09 21:33:16
September 09 2017 21:19 GMT
#9
I am giving eyewitness testimony. "I saw Bob punch Jim in the mouth at 2am last night."


Ah yes, the good old believe me " I saw x or y happen". Why do you think most of these testimonies are not used when people are in court. Since they could easily be falsified to make someone look bad.
Which is what you are doing to Sea at the moment.

All you are doing right now is hopping on a bandwagon to try and destroy someones livelihood and/or (mental) health. Whatever happend to innocent until proven guilty.

Stop pretending like you are doing any kind of legit research when you are not even given sources to your claims.
Stop destroying someone or something you don't like without legit research and sources that back your claims.
If you don't have sources don't come with excusses like "it can be googled", "site is down" or "no one clips it" if the evidence is not there you cannot use it to SLANDER someone.

Which is what you are doing.
"What good fortune for goverments that the people do not think."
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-09 21:21:38
September 09 2017 21:19 GMT
#10
lemmata clearly trying to steal the thunder of our ASL Power Rankings with his salacious post about Sea :p

I don't know about the Mr. Mo association, but I agree with ForeverWar...talking about the players visiting massage parlors or jacking off a lot is pretty realistic. Maybe Koreans see progamers a bit differently, but that sounds like an accurate description of a 15 year old kid.

Ah yes, the good old believe "me i saw x or y happend". Why do you think most of these testimonies are not used when people are in court. Since they could easily be falsified to make someone look bad.
Which you are doing to Sea at the moment.

All you are doing right now is hopping on a bandwagon to try and destroy someones livelihood and/or (mental) health. Whatever happend to innocent until proven guilty.

Stop pretending like you are doing any kind of legit research when you are not even given sources to your claims.
Stop destroying someone or something you don't like with legit research and sources that back your claims.
If you don't have sources don't come with excusses like "it can be googled", "site is down" or "no one clips it" if the evidence is not there you cannot use it to SLANDER someone.

Which is what you are doing.


Technically it's libel.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
lemmata
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
468 Posts
September 09 2017 22:20 GMT
#11
Screencap of a reply to my PM two years ago about the eye ailment, in which I had working links. You can fault me for not having saved those videos. But it's still something to support my claim that I had provided links to them in TL PMs. Of course, you are free to believe that I provided dummy links in that original PM. For what it's worth, the original link was https://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=HKLQwiFq_cA
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Also, you can see that he actually had an eye ailment at the time of game according to the casters in the video (~47s).
+ Show Spoiler +


Here's what some random people have said on the internet. I do think that I should take back what I said about Google. It seems that many Korean community sites are difficult to search due to restrictions in robots.txt. You can make of it what you will, but you can certainly see that some of things I have said have been said by others.

Some nuking-related posts about Mo and Zeus by others (including apology letter)

http://web.humoruniv.com/board/humor/read.html?table=game&number=2023348
http://mbk33.tistory.com/entry/전태규-누킹범에-전쟁선포-범인은-조제호로-알려져
http://www.ygosu.com/community/st/211391/?page=3&searcht=s&search=%EC%A1%B0%EC%A0%9C%ED%98%B8

Ygosu search on Mr. Mo.
http://www.ygosu.com/community/st/?searcht=s&search=%EC%A1%B0%EC%A0%9C%ED%98%B8&page=1

For the massage parlor story, it seems that a youtube video remains.
+ Show Spoiler +


Mo was involved enough to be casting Sea vs Savior with Terror back in the day (vid)
+ Show Spoiler +


Mo harassing female streamers
https://web.archive.org/web/20170909211817/http://www.afreecano.com/974

Some posts saying that Mo gave lots of balloons to BJs.
http://m.ygosu.com/board/?bid=st&idx=184950&searcht=&search=&m3=all_article&page=25
http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=ib&no=1401687
lemmata
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
468 Posts
September 09 2017 22:31 GMT
#12
On September 10 2017 06:19 Judgement wrote:
Show nested quote +
I am giving eyewitness testimony. "I saw Bob punch Jim in the mouth at 2am last night."


Ah yes, the good old believe me " I saw x or y happen". Why do you think most of these testimonies are not used when people are in court. Since they could easily be falsified to make someone look bad.
Which is what you are doing to Sea at the moment.

All you are doing right now is hopping on a bandwagon to try and destroy someones livelihood and/or (mental) health. Whatever happend to innocent until proven guilty.

Stop pretending like you are doing any kind of legit research when you are not even given sources to your claims.
Stop destroying someone or something you don't like without legit research and sources that back your claims.
If you don't have sources don't come with excusses like "it can be googled", "site is down" or "no one clips it" if the evidence is not there you cannot use it to SLANDER someone.

Which is what you are doing.

We're not in court are we? Also, nothing in my post says that Sea did anything illegal. It says he hung out with bad people in public and said stupid stuff.

If I see someone doing something, do I have some obligation to shut up just because I didn't record it? That seems like an awfully strange standard, especially since no criminal wrongdoing is alleged. Even if you believe me when I say that Sea told this guy about his eye ailment, that is not illegal. It's just stupid.

People can say what they say saw and others can believe it or not believe it.

I would be perfectly happy to accept it if you are saying that you don't believe me. That's fine. To be honest, I would also be skeptical if I were you.

However, I do have a problem with you saying that I cannot talk about stuff I saw because I didn't record it. That's bogus.
Judgement
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands152 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-09 22:56:43
September 09 2017 22:55 GMT
#13
So you have a message with some that agrees with your view that Sea did something "very stupid indeed" with regards to something he did on his stream in 2015 and that it was good that he was removed from SSL10.
As evidence that someone did something then shoudln't have done 2 years ago, he was "sentenced" and "served his time" which was no more SSL for Sea.
So again this is not relevent nor meaningful to this incident. (not i am not saying that it was good or bad that he wasn't allowed to compete in SSL10, just saying you cannot held someone responsible for something they already were trailed for)

Again the stuff about young people that want to release their tension isn't something weird, as well as the so called "progamer" status. They are YOUNG people ofcourse they have urges and since they are all in house ofcourse these kind of things tend to happen.
Nothing special about this.

So the info with regards to Sea his eyes was known since the casters knew so again this proves nothing. If is was a betting man and I knew that one of the guys his eyes were hurting ofcourse I would bet against him, this doesn't prove Sea threw the match since this "insider info" could have been that Sea eyes hurt really bad, but this was already known as you yourself stated.

And you made a link between Mo and Terror, but nothing substantial that the guy had any real connection with SEA(!) with regards to anything beside the man being a fan(?) of Sea.

All in all a lot of words no real meat just a lot of "shit" that gets thrown against someone that did something you didn't like. Just be real about it and acknowledge it and stop pretending to have the moral high ground.

Sea was drunk did something (really) dumb he apologized for it and because he did something dumb he lost respect in the eyes of some(must) people.

But there is no "dark side of Sea", just a normal person that drunk too much.

Edit: Also the fact that you proclaim that people are "bad" is quite funny.
Just because someone does/did something you do/did not like doesn't make them "bad people" get of your high horse.

"What good fortune for goverments that the people do not think."
Ty2
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States1434 Posts
September 09 2017 23:06 GMT
#14
--- Nuked ---
Writer
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1449 Posts
September 10 2017 00:23 GMT
#15
Sea is pretty much terror lite and share a lot of viewerbase. I don't know why people are surprised that era's stream is so wild and a lot of times, raunchy. His viewbase watches him for these kind of streams. Controversial and wild.

There's a reason people in Korea are split about watching sea. Some people absolutely hate these kind of stream and some people love it for being wild/dramatic 24/7
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
September 10 2017 01:52 GMT
#16
Thanks for the info.
bigmetazltank
Profile Joined September 2017
34 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-10 02:21:44
September 10 2017 02:21 GMT
#17
Sea definitely does have some questionable moral beliefs, which definitely popped up during this new post-Kespa era of Brood War. No one should have to be educated why stream cheating in a money match is a really shitty thing to do, especially in a 3v3 game where some players are going random, but apparently Sea needed to be roasted to know that stream cheating is, well, cheating.
Season
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States301 Posts
September 10 2017 02:41 GMT
#18
Why sully and publicize someone who used to be sponsored and represent Team Liquid on their site? Truth or not, this just puts a bad taste and idea about Sea to others who may not have known anything. Not gonna go to much into this, but I will say let's wait and see how he acts now that the spotlight is on him as this will be a great representation of the person he really is.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
September 10 2017 03:37 GMT
#19
1) Sea fraternized Mr. Mo, who illegally bet on his (Sea’s) games.
2) Sea gave Mr. Mo insider information about Sea’s eye ailment and used it to illegally bet against Sea.
3) Mr. Mo had donated many balloons to Sea and other pro gamers.
4) Sea continued to fraternize with Mr. Mo afterwards.

Could you explain what a) makes those bets illegal from your point of view and why b) you're not just bringing this forward towards law enforcement if you know the real name of the guy?
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
September 10 2017 06:09 GMT
#20
Interesting info, thanks for sharing lemmata! Ya, Sea has some rather bad habits all around it seems. Kinda sad to see how far he's come.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
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