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Forum Index > BW General
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kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
March 14 2018 14:31 GMT
#1821
I actually really like sparkle, but I think tranzistor is a shitty map (also judging from recent ASL games). This one looks very promising.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
LocoBolon
Profile Joined June 2012
Argentina243 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-14 15:51:11
March 14 2018 15:48 GMT
#1822
I agree with freakling, I think the idea is to introduce chaos and hope that in the middle of that Flash may lose somehow, I mean: that's the meaning of the "turn around" slogan in my head, this: "time lets Flash not win".
On the other hand I agree with some other guy who said he's not sure if this will actually be detrimental or good for him. He is not just a mechanical monster, he is also the smartest guy around, like Nichola Tesla, Flash is a genius who finds pattern where other brains can only see chaos, im sure if we sit and read the bible carefully we will realize that is the true meaning of GOD (lol).

Talking about Flash and new maps I came to think I just didn't see Flash vs Protoss on the island map. I really wanna take a look at that, actually havn't even see terran vs protoss on that map. Have any of you seen some good tvp on sparkle?
Standard Queens
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-14 16:04:22
March 14 2018 16:01 GMT
#1823
Players no longer depend on performance in individual leagues or proleague to earn a higher salary. They're entertainers / entrepreneurs who are individually responsible for making money via streaming.

The leagues also don't come with the past prestige -- ASL is the most prestigious current league, but it's much closer in feeling to the old GSL (BW edition) than even MSL, forget OSL. This era counts less than pre-2012 historical significance-wise.

So why is it a big deal if the maps are balanced? We can watch players play on "balanced" maps 24/7 on stream now. And I say "balanced" because when players play the "normal" maps people still cry imba in other ways.

I think it's great that ASL is introducing all these crazy maps. It's fantastic that they added an island map, leading to battles with unit compositions we have literally never seen before. I think it's cool they're trying these crazy concepts. And look at a map like Gold Rush -- that turned out to be a great map. I want to see players pushed to be innovative, even if that might mean coming up with a cheesy gimmick that destroys the map. Don't you want to see that ingenuity too? It will only happen when the games matter a little bit, because otherwise nobody was going to play island maps or other goofy maps on stream.

Feels like Afreeca is playing it right in terms of balancing fairness and trying to grow the game. At this point, growing the game is more than fairness of tournament, since it doesn't matter for salary or legacy purposes anymore.

Edit: Even if Flash wins, it will hopefully be more interesting to see how he wins due to new maps. So even that scenario looks better.
orvinreyes
Profile Joined June 2007
577 Posts
March 14 2018 16:03 GMT
#1824
So much whining when something new is introduced. For once stop being such old farts and enjoy the show!!!
http://youtu.be/LfmrHTdXgK4
orvinreyes
Profile Joined June 2007
577 Posts
March 14 2018 16:14 GMT
#1825
On March 15 2018 01:01 darktreb wrote:
Players no longer depend on performance in individual leagues or proleague to earn a higher salary. They're entertainers / entrepreneurs who are individually responsible for making money via streaming.

The leagues also don't come with the past prestige -- ASL is the most prestigious current league, but it's much closer in feeling to the old GSL (BW edition) than even MSL, forget OSL. This era counts less than pre-2012 historical significance-wise.

So why is it a big deal if the maps are balanced? We can watch players play on "balanced" maps 24/7 on stream now. And I say "balanced" because when players play the "normal" maps people still cry imba in other ways.

I think it's great that ASL is introducing all these crazy maps. It's fantastic that they added an island map, leading to battles with unit compositions we have literally never seen before. I think it's cool they're trying these crazy concepts. And look at a map like Gold Rush -- that turned out to be a great map. I want to see players pushed to be innovative, even if that might mean coming up with a cheesy gimmick that destroys the map. Don't you want to see that ingenuity too? It will only happen when the games matter a little bit, because otherwise nobody was going to play island maps or other goofy maps on stream.

Feels like Afreeca is playing it right in terms of balancing fairness and trying to grow the game. At this point, growing the game is more than fairness of tournament, since it doesn't matter for salary or legacy purposes anymore.

Edit: Even if Flash wins, it will hopefully be more interesting to see how he wins due to new maps. So even that scenario looks better.


10/10 post. That's the spirit!
http://youtu.be/LfmrHTdXgK4
LocoBolon
Profile Joined June 2012
Argentina243 Posts
March 14 2018 16:56 GMT
#1826
Yes, I kind of agree with all he said too, specially with this

On March 15 2018 01:01 darktreb wrote:

I think it's great that ASL is introducing all these crazy maps. It's fantastic that they added an island map, leading to battles with unit compositions we have literally never seen before. I think it's cool they're trying these crazy concepts. And look at a map like Gold Rush -- that turned out to be a great map. I want to see players pushed to be innovative, even if that might mean coming up with a cheesy gimmick that destroys the map. Don't you want to see that ingenuity too? It will only happen when the games matter a little bit, because otherwise nobody was going to play island maps or other goofy maps on stream.

Feels like Afreeca is playing it right in terms of balancing fairness and trying to grow the game. At this point, growing the game is more than fairness of tournament, since it doesn't matter for salary or legacy purposes anymore.

Edit: Even if Flash wins, it will hopefully be more interesting to see how he wins due to new maps. So even that scenario looks better.

Standard Queens
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-14 17:47:38
March 14 2018 17:46 GMT
#1827
The truth of the matter is that historically broodwar allowed for innovative maps, that risked imbalance. It was only the twilight of broodwar where people became hyper conservative and advocated consistently for only the same basic concept map-- easy natural, stronger against muta harass than in the past, close third gases, wide open center. Why should we want such a ossified state to continue? Dust 2 anyone? Fuck that. Broodwar is a strategy game, its always been about the maps. You kiddies just grew up in a dark era, thats all.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
March 14 2018 18:15 GMT
#1828
New map is better than Sparkle at least. I don't even bother watching the games on the island map, I find them way too boring. Not a fan of the map pool in general this tournament.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
March 14 2018 18:31 GMT
#1829
Can we please get some map balance stats for Sparkle on the newest version in sponsored matches? Thanks.
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-14 18:41:01
March 14 2018 18:40 GMT
#1830
On March 15 2018 02:46 Dazed. wrote:
The truth of the matter is that historically broodwar allowed for innovative maps, that risked imbalance. It was only the twilight of broodwar where people became hyper conservative and advocated consistently for only the same basic concept map-- easy natural, stronger against muta harass than in the past, close third gases, wide open center. Why should we want such a ossified state to continue? Dust 2 anyone? Fuck that. Broodwar is a strategy game, its always been about the maps. You kiddies just grew up in a dark era, thats all.


because the gameplay on those maps is utterly boring in the long run, you want youre opponent to be able to comeback in the game thus balanced maps provide better circumstances for that

sure it will look cool and funny and new for the first couple of games on those new maps but in the long run not the same imbalanced features will be exploited resulting in the same dull game play for every matchup
Somatophylax
Profile Joined March 2018
5 Posts
March 14 2018 18:42 GMT
#1831
if they made these maps to get rid of flash, that's just stupid. Flash is the man who fills the goddamn seats.
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6579 Posts
March 14 2018 18:53 GMT
#1832
well u can see already that the 3 maps are setting new standards for this game.we are basically exploring new ground,as a player i would hate to play them,as a viewer im really curious what people like flash soulkey shuttle effort will come with.
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
March 14 2018 20:45 GMT
#1833
On March 15 2018 02:46 Dazed. wrote:
The truth of the matter is that historically broodwar allowed for innovative maps, that risked imbalance. It was only the twilight of broodwar where people became hyper conservative and advocated consistently for only the same basic concept map-- easy natural, stronger against muta harass than in the past, close third gases, wide open center. Why should we want such a ossified state to continue? Dust 2 anyone? Fuck that. Broodwar is a strategy game, its always been about the maps. You kiddies just grew up in a dark era, thats all.

The issue is not Sparkle. Or Transistor. Or this new map. The issue is a map pack almost entirely consisting of these 3.
Kespa had the common sense to spice up a solid map pack based on fairly standard 2 and 4 player maps with one or two less standard ones, even the occasional crazy experimental one, because they probably knew that it would be good for the meta, good for the show and good for the competition.
What Afreeca is doing right now seems just desperate and chaotic, for whatever reason. They aren't so much helping evolve the game as smash most of the known meta with a sledgehammer, and no one can know where it is going from there.
duke91
Profile Joined April 2014
Germany1458 Posts
March 14 2018 20:47 GMT
#1834
Get Arkanoid in the map pool
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-14 22:13:53
March 14 2018 22:10 GMT
#1835
On March 15 2018 03:40 onlystar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2018 02:46 Dazed. wrote:
The truth of the matter is that historically broodwar allowed for innovative maps, that risked imbalance. It was only the twilight of broodwar where people became hyper conservative and advocated consistently for only the same basic concept map-- easy natural, stronger against muta harass than in the past, close third gases, wide open center. Why should we want such a ossified state to continue? Dust 2 anyone? Fuck that. Broodwar is a strategy game, its always been about the maps. You kiddies just grew up in a dark era, thats all.


because the gameplay on those maps is utterly boring in the long run, you want youre opponent to be able to comeback in the game thus balanced maps provide better circumstances for that

sure it will look cool and funny and new for the first couple of games on those new maps but in the long run not the same imbalanced features will be exploited resulting in the same dull game play for every matchup
Have you played neo requiem? Not a balanced map, yet it isnt boring to play or watch, and the game play is hardly one dimensional. You dont know what your talking about.
On March 15 2018 05:45 Freakling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2018 02:46 Dazed. wrote:
The truth of the matter is that historically broodwar allowed for innovative maps, that risked imbalance. It was only the twilight of broodwar where people became hyper conservative and advocated consistently for only the same basic concept map-- easy natural, stronger against muta harass than in the past, close third gases, wide open center. Why should we want such a ossified state to continue? Dust 2 anyone? Fuck that. Broodwar is a strategy game, its always been about the maps. You kiddies just grew up in a dark era, thats all.

The issue is not Sparkle. Or Transistor. Or this new map. The issue is a map pack almost entirely consisting of these 3.
Kespa had the common sense to spice up a solid map pack based on fairly standard 2 and 4 player maps with one or two less standard ones, even the occasional crazy experimental one, because they probably knew that it would be good for the meta, good for the show and good for the competition.
What Afreeca is doing right now seems just desperate and chaotic, for whatever reason. They aren't so much helping evolve the game as smash most of the known meta with a sledgehammer, and no one can know where it is going from there.
One major point of distinction is that in the kespa days the scene hadnt already ossified to the extent where the maps they were retaining had been there for an entire decade, nor were any of the standard maps simply replaceable without any real distinction--- cb and fs have their differences, to be sure, but they and maps of that era are some of the most bland, unoriginal, and similar maps in broodwar history. Played one, you played them all. And its been almost ten years.

Ten years of staleness and you still have people complaining that change is happening too quickly. Genuinely pathetic.

Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-14 22:38:41
March 14 2018 22:32 GMT
#1836
@dazed i know exactly what im talking about probably have a lot more experience and familiar with how pros play on the new maps. watch the islad games played on sparkle on afreeca every matchup goes EXACTLY in the same manner not even a slight difference pvz > mass sair and thats it for tvz it since all the balance changes in favour of zerg always ending up in mass vessel/bc/dropship tanks(some wraiths in the mix if needed) its just the most effective way of playing that map it gets pretty boring after seeing these 30-40 min tvz always ending up in the same fashion
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-14 23:23:35
March 14 2018 23:18 GMT
#1837
The only reason why FS is even used in the post-KeSPA era is because everyone in ladder uses it like Luna, Lost Temple, Python before it, but if you look at pro circuit map pools, they rotate on a yearly/seasonal basis.

But the new map doesn't look so good; trapping both players in practically one corner of the map lol
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
Gorgonoth
Profile Joined August 2017
United States468 Posts
March 14 2018 23:28 GMT
#1838
The new map looks kinda weird, but most of the new maps that have come out Ive loved ie Gold Rush, Sparkle. Part of what makes BW exciting and different from SC2 is the wacky maps. Some maps may be slightly imba, but is it really better to sacrifice athestic quality, freshness, enablement of wacky strats just so things can be perfectly balanced? I think not. The closest that we can see this is in Fighting Spirit, which is pretty bland and unexciting. SC2's maps lost something, they all are so balanced that they are bland and unexciting for the most part, so im glad to see fresh new maps coming out for the Broodwar scene.
Shinokuki
Profile Joined July 2013
United States859 Posts
March 14 2018 23:56 GMT
#1839
On March 15 2018 08:28 Gorgonoth wrote:
The new map looks kinda weird, but most of the new maps that have come out Ive loved ie Gold Rush, Sparkle. Part of what makes BW exciting and different from SC2 is the wacky maps. Some maps may be slightly imba, but is it really better to sacrifice athestic quality, freshness, enablement of wacky strats just so things can be perfectly balanced? I think not. The closest that we can see this is in Fighting Spirit, which is pretty bland and unexciting. SC2's maps lost something, they all are so balanced that they are bland and unexciting for the most part, so im glad to see fresh new maps coming out for the Broodwar scene.



lmao fs is in no way balanced
Life is just life
Bakuryu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany1065 Posts
March 14 2018 23:56 GMT
#1840
so you are posting that you dont like how this map/situation is and as a result you get these responses.
On March 15 2018 01:03 orvinreyes wrote:
So much whining when something new is introduced. For once stop being such old farts and enjoy the show!!!

On March 15 2018 02:46 Dazed. wrote:
You kiddies just grew up in a dark era, thats all.

On March 15 2018 07:10 Dazed. wrote:
Ten years of staleness and you still have people complaining that change is happening too quickly. Genuinely pathetic.

why do i even post anymore.....
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