EPTInformation from Korea - Page 103
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
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juvenal
2448 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
I don't know if KCM's decision is good. But if we're talking about the topic of black hat/white hat, yeah it is kinda repugnant when you feel like you're working with double-agents. I think in the actual situation though, this decision has come out of left-field for players just trying to make use of their opportunities, and even if KCM had said something before hand, it would still feel unfair and like a legitimate source of income was being cut away from them. I think it's a little too controlling to hurt other people in the effort to spite Savior, even though I agree Savior shouldn't be making his money from SC anymore after he disgraced the sport and thousands of fans. In terms of the actual real world benefit, better for SC or worse for SC, I have no idea. When I think about it though, I kind of side with KCM in terms of a personal decision. I think he wants absolutely nothing to do with Savior even by distant association, that it is a sore spot for him and would cause him distress, and from that perspective I don't think it's that bad. It's not like he's running ASL, he's running his own little events. For KCM, it's probably better just to not have to worry about it. To him and other Korean's, it already feels like Chinese tournaments are undermining Korean efforts to make a statement about Savior and matchfixing in StarCraft. So when fellow Korean StarCraft players go to those tournaments, it probably feels like their are undermining Korean organizer's efforts too. I think I've kind of talked myself into thinking it was actually a good decision lol. | ||
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
its simple for these korean players, you want cash prize or you want "reputation" for a scene that will decline rapidly in a few years time. like hell you would choose the latter | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28781 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50749 Posts
On May 03 2018 00:29 Alpha-NP- wrote: I wish they would let savior play in the ASL tournaments. It would be good for the metagame. He is a creative genius. good luck getting anyone to take part in that, let alone sponsor. | ||
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Aylear
Norway3988 Posts
On May 03 2018 00:29 Alpha-NP- wrote: I wish they would let savior play in the ASL tournaments. It would be good for the metagame. He is a creative genius. Much as I love and would miss Brood War, if Savior was allowed to compete in the ASL and the like I would close the book on the game and stop watching it entirely. I'm also convinced that I wouldn't even have to make that decision, as him being allowed to come back would rip the scene apart from the inside out all over again just from all the players who would retire and refuse to play any more, and all the sponsors pulling out to avoid the resulting bad PR. I don't begrudge you your daydream, but I'll fight to keep it as just that. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
On May 03 2018 01:23 BigFan wrote: I don't fault KCM for this move and I think it's well within his right to ban whoever he wants from his own tournament. A lot of players turn down these invites constantly because to them, Savior helped destroy a scene that they were a part of so at this point, players accepting these invites should realize what comes with it. Thankfully, it's mostly Shinee and Beast and not higher level players. Too bad for Scan though. At least he got a nice trip and guessing top 3 placement so more money than he would've made from any KCM match. Yeah, I think a lot of people forget humans don't have a "right" to enter tournaments. It's all up to the TO. If you don't agree with the TO, then just don't partake in their tournament or support/watch it I guess. I don't blame KCM here, it makes sense for branding and the situation surrounding the person involved. That said... My guess is Shinee and Scan playing in a lot more Have At You's hahah. | ||
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LocoBolon
Argentina244 Posts
On May 02 2018 22:35 Chef wrote: When I think about it though, I kind of side with KCM in terms of a personal decision. I think he wants absolutely nothing to do with Savior even by distant association, that it is a sore spot for him and would cause him distress, and from that perspective I don't think it's that bad. It's not like he's running ASL, he's running his own little events. For KCM, it's probably better just to not have to worry about it. To him and other Korean's, it already feels like Chinese tournaments are undermining Korean efforts to make a statement about Savior and matchfixing in StarCraft. So when fellow Korean StarCraft players go to those tournaments, it probably feels like their are undermining Korean organizer's efforts too. I think I've kind of talked myself into thinking it was actually a good decision lol. Ok this is almost convincing me. A new perspective is always welcome here, you definitely made a good point. | ||
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Jealous
10310 Posts
In that split second KCM gets recalled by the StarCraft gods themselves into the venue, looks at the list of people who signed up before Savior did, and automatically enters them into a list of Untouchables in the Korean StarCraft community. You were already full sprint out of the venue as soon as you saw KCM appear in the doorway, leaving your handwarmers, peripherals, and wallet with pictures of your daughter at the table in an effort to save face before KCM eradicates your existence from the StarCraft scene. Sadly, you did not make it. Within minutes, everyone knows that you have committed the capital sin of playing in the same tournament that Savior played in. You're now trash just like Savior, and will never be allowed to play BW again unless you stay in China or wherever the fuck you are at that moment. You have brought shame upon your family and B.net clan. Your wife leaves you because you have the mark of Savior attached to your name. You commit suicide on a windy August night. RIP | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
Then some lame ass law-abiding cops end up uncovering your genius plan and destroy it, ruining your own and many other people's lives in the process. Stupid assholes. You commit suicide on a sunny June afternoon. GTFO with your ridiculous sarcasm, Jealous. I especially lol'd at Savior using a smurf. Like they didn't know who IPXZerg is. He's been using the alias for ages. User was warned for this post. | ||
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Jealous
10310 Posts
On May 03 2018 13:46 juvenal wrote: You set up a match-fixing scheme after carefully thinking about all the possible scenarios and consequences for all the parties involved, painstakingly calculating the potential profit to potential losses ratio and finding enough courage and audacity to risk your entire brilliant career on it. Under the cover of night you hold many meetings, make many calls, convince many people. You convince them of the one truth you hold: money is god and humans are trash. Then some lame ass law-abiding cops end up uncovering your genius plan and destroy it, ruining your own and many other people's lives in the process. Stupid assholes. You commit suicide on a sunny June afternoon. GTFO with your ridiculous sarcasm, Jealous. I especially lol'd at Savior using a smurf. Like they didn't know who IPXZerg is. He's been using the alias for ages. GTFO with your inability to understand hyperbole. I didn't even know what name Savior used in the tournament, it was an obvious exaggeration given the context. I'm using hyperbole to accentuate the fact that this is an absolutely ridiculous punishment. What should people do once Savior signs up for a tournament? Drop out? Or if they don't know he is in the tournament until later, do they have to stop playing mid-set and leave the venue and give walk over? This is like when SK army killed people who signed up for communist rallies without knowing they were communist rallies and only signed up for free grain. People sign up for a tournament because they want to play and make money but then get banned from playing in KCM tournaments because they weren't told that sitting and using a computer in the same room as Savior would paint them as persona non grata and banned from KCM tournaments just as hard as Savior is. It's not even a probationary sentence, or warning, or something they knew about ahead of time. They just get shut out like they are slime. GTFO with that shit, juvenal. Like they knew that breathing the same stale PC Bang air as Savior made them untouchables. User was warned for this post. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6830 Posts
 no seriously this is an amazing thread that i think deserves some respect,take it to pm guys. | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
On May 03 2018 18:12 Jealous wrote: GTFO with your inability to understand hyperbole. I didn't even know what name Savior used in the tournament, it was an obvious exaggeration given the context. I'm using hyperbole to accentuate the fact that this is an absolutely ridiculous punishment. What should people do once Savior signs up for a tournament? Drop out? Or if they don't know he is in the tournament until later, do they have to stop playing mid-set and leave the venue and give walk over? This is like when SK army killed people who signed up for communist rallies without knowing they were communist rallies and only signed up for free grain. People sign up for a tournament because they want to play and make money but then get banned from playing in KCM tournaments because they weren't told that sitting and using a computer in the same room as Savior would paint them as persona non grata and banned from KCM tournaments just as hard as Savior is. It's not even a probationary sentence, or warning, or something they knew about ahead of time. They just get shut out like they are slime. GTFO with that shit, juvenal. Like they knew that breathing the same stale PC Bang air as Savior made them untouchables. I understood your post perfectly. Perhaps better than you did, given your angry response to me. You made it look like the players didn't know beforehand that Savior was gonna attend, while they obviously did. Otherwise instead of random Shinees and Beasts you would've seen your Storks, Flashes and JDs of the scene competing for that sort of money. The reason they didn't go was because they've got some integrity and actually respect the scene that made them what they are. Doesn't take a fucking genius to understand that being involved in anything esports related featuring Savior of all people would get you in trouble. If you think they didn't know what they were doing you're either playing dumb or just is dumb. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
1. We don't know how many times KCM has expressed resentment about this before. I don't speak Korean, I'm not a part of that community, neither are you. 2. We don't know they are banned for life, or that KCM wouldn't be willing to have them back if they satisfied him by apology and promising to avoid tournaments with Savior in the future. 3. We don't know that they joined before Savior did (in fact, that's very unlikely) 4. KCM cannot make a person an untouchable, he controls only his own tournaments and they are not the only tournaments. 5. We don't know how obvious it would be for pros to know participating in tournaments with Savior already made them sketchy even before this ban. There is a difference between making an argument and spreading rumours. You can't just imagine facts to support your case, and this is before considering your hyperbolic post which I understand was more for satire and humour. We basically just know about a two line KCM post, which according to google translate, says: 아울러 중국에서 열리는 스타행사에 마재윤과 함께하는 선수들은 향후 제가 제작하는 컨텐츠에 출전이 금지 됨을 알려드립니다. In addition, players with Majae Yoon in the star event in China I will inform you that participation in the contents I produce will be prohibited in the future. Which barely says anything. I don't know if it is more firm when you understand the original Korean, if it is less vague, or if there are follow up posts which add more detail. And I'm pretty sure you don't either! KCM is a pretty cool dude, I would try to have some faith he didn't take the decision lightly and thought it was the best thing to do, and talked about it with other people, and would probably reconsider if other people in the Korean community made strong objections. You are vilifying him and comparing his actions to the murder of innocents. I'm going to go ahead and say that's not the same thing, it's not motivated by the same forces, and even culturally thinking about justice in Korea, it's only at best tangentially related and inappropriate to bring up. Obviously you're welcome to still object even without further details, but I think it would be cool if you didn't make them up. We can suppose if x, then I feel y, and I think that's fine (because that's what I do lol), but I think you can't be firm about what you believe the situation is when you have no information. I would not be shocked if we saw a bit of PR relayed to us in the foreign community that would assuage some of these feelings. | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33584 Posts
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