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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 16 2017 20:15 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2017 20:08 Liquid`Jinro wrote:And that also means that a 'defense' for all these people that did the same thing, be it Incontrol or ret or whoever, they are also 'defending' their own actions. These top foreigner SC BW amateurs, they knew there would be opportunities with SC2. And they took them. Many had quite a few nice and unique experiences that wouldn't have happened in their life otherwise. I mean, even someone like FrozenArbiter, who wasn't even good at SC BW, managed to get a career in SC2 somehow. Of course that was also because of the Blizzard vs Kespa war, but it did give them unique opportunities.
I played games with all these people back in the day, but I went my own way. Many of us weren't made for practicing hardcore like a Korean, or trying to carve out a niche as an internet personality. But some f us saw the commercial opportunity that was SC2, and it was very big. And they ran with it, even though they realized very early on that the game was very flawed, and kept very silent about it. "Not good at BW" I was A+ on PGTour, you pompous buffoon. That might not be Korean pro level but it's very far from 'not good'. everytime a meet an old school player B- on iccup he tell me he was A+ Pgtour :p ,there are legends that Androide made A+ with every race on pgtour.so how hard was to get A+ on pgtour in your opinion ?i started late playing BW 
PGTour was just ICCUP before ICCUP existed....
So as hard as iccup for its time (obviously level was lower since BW kept evolving strategy wise)? It really depended a bit on the season tho, some seasons would be harder than others but the top of pgtour was all progamers and semi-pros.
I can't compare it in terms of personal experience to ICCUP because I had mostly quit by then.
On April 16 2017 20:14 TT1 wrote:
Wow i didnt even notice what that guy said about Jinro, LOL. Random guy calling out one of the better foreign BW players, acting like he knows something about the game. Jinro was one of the few foreigners who practiced on west with koreans and did well against them.
On April 16 2017 18:58 dignitas.merz wrote:
I think why many people whom left BW for SC2 (including myself) are defending Day9 is because the accusations are directed towards all of us. The frustration stems from, at least for me, that you seem to think that you are entitled to some sort of an applause because you stuck with BW all this time. No one on the "opposite side" is demanding any applause for the amount of hard work they kept putting into BW for 10+ years (1999 - 2009) to keep the game floating in the western world (excluding S Korea here) and this is why this feels like a giant slap in the fucking face to be frank.
This is not a pissing contest nor should it be, but somehow I cant shake the feeling that we (as in the people who left for sc2) have to prove our worth to be accepted into a community we all helped to build long before any of the people who kept it going after sc2s release was even here.
This is all fucking absurd. We all love Brood War for the beautiful and awesome game it was and still is. We all have memories we will cheerish for the rest of our lives due to the game. Let us just cheerish what Brood War is instead of making it into a competition of whom contributed more to the scene or not. Let us stop attacking people personally with accusations that have no real basis in reality. It saddens me to see people attacking FrozenArbiter for example implying he wasnt "good enough" for BW and thus moved on. FA was one of the heaviest contributors to TL.net and one of the most passionate and skilled foreigners that existed. He was one of few who would actually practice with and get accepted into South korean clans. Making accusations like this is just mean and shows that the person claiming this really has no clue.
A lot of people in this thread are making the argument that the people who have been gone for years cant know the hard work that others had to put in to keep BW going these years. The same argument can be applied to Day9, Artosis, or FrozenArbiter. You literally have no clue about the work these people put in. So please, lets just respect both sides and the work each respective side put into the game we all love and end this ridiculously childish debate.
Thanks @ both of you, though I'm not sure I'd say did well. I remember Jangbi beating me with his terran a bunch ^^
PvZ I could do good against most people tho. If I remember correctly my test games to join Dream.T were against HyuN - I won the first game on Luna then he asked for 5 consecutive rematches and bitchslapped me a bit ^^ (though this was before I got to A+ on PGTour I thiiiiiink, I got lucky to even win that first game at the time).
Man making me remember all these cool games  Randomly getting to play against KaL on some korean BJ's stream (and trying to use feedback to snipe templars in the 200/200 fight on rush hour, which didn't end well), playing Chinese team league for this awesome chinese team GP.).... Sandlot bo5 vs FantasY (took a map!! he wasn't famous yet but in hindsight winning a macro game against him is pretty cool)...
Being jealous of Liquid`Ret's (iD at theh time) ability to take extended breaks from the game then come back and be beating everyone within 2 warm-up games... so talented.
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Norway28622 Posts
FA at his peak was definitely one of the best players outside korea. slightly below your mondragon sen draco testie ret, but hard to really differentiate between the group of players below these ones.
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well just taking a map from Fantasy put you as top player in my eyes
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On April 16 2017 20:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
FA at his peak was definitely one of the best players outside korea. slightly below your mondragon sen draco testie ret, but hard to really differentiate between the group of players below these ones.
this. pretty spot on.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 16 2017 20:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
FA at his peak was definitely one of the best players outside korea. slightly below your mondragon sen draco testie ret, but hard to really differentiate between the group of players below these ones.
I have traumatic (blocked) memories of my first tournament/event games of any kind (I don't remember in what event it was.... don't remind me if you do lol :D) vs you...
EDIT: This brought to mind another traumatic memory:
I think it was during the WDTour qualifiers, and I was still quite fresh to the game but I had gotten decent enough that I thought I was at least okay (I was not). I ran into Fisheye and ended up losing to his Terran I think (despite, as I recall, delaying his factory for like a full minute with manner pylons).
Anyway, at the end he said some really nice words of encouragement, along the lines of "keep practicing, you'll get there" and I remember being so mad because I thought I was already good hahaha
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On April 16 2017 20:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
FA at his peak was definitely one of the best players outside korea. slightly below your mondragon sen draco testie ret, but hard to really differentiate between the group of players below these ones.
i did never heard anything from frozerarbiter, i know him as liquid`Jinro,also is funny that i know you as ToT)eriador( no liquid`drone :D
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On April 16 2017 20:42 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2017 20:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
FA at his peak was definitely one of the best players outside korea. slightly below your mondragon sen draco testie ret, but hard to really differentiate between the group of players below these ones. I have traumatic (blocked) memories of my first tournament/event games of any kind (I don't remember in what event it was.... don't remind me if you do lol :D) vs you...
Everyone has traumatic memories of their first games against Drone because he'd do the most messed up shit strategy-wise and make you look embarassingly bad :D That and he played Random. Filthy
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Norway28622 Posts
On April 16 2017 20:42 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2017 20:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
FA at his peak was definitely one of the best players outside korea. slightly below your mondragon sen draco testie ret, but hard to really differentiate between the group of players below these ones. I have traumatic (blocked) memories of my first tournament/event games of any kind (I don't remember in what event it was.... don't remind me if you do lol :D) vs you...
haha
that must be the TL staff tourney we played in early 2005! Here is a live report thread ; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/22684-the-tkwl-domination-thread
here's
a replay
But this was before you peaked, which was more like 2006-2007, I remember being surprised by how much you improved during a short period of time! :p
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LOOL
Manifesto7 Profile Blog PM Joined November 2002 Osaka25589 Posts
January 16 2005 02:48 CET #9
FUCK THIS BULLSHIT.
Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK. BW is rigged making it impossible for me to get ANY OTHER MATCHUP VS P THEN PvP aka faggotland. Seriously, I get random P vs stupid Bill's protoss, go for the double proxy gate in the sweetest position, but then realize I cant micro zealots AT ALL. AND the fucker goes two gate himself because he is a big gaping vagina. Obviously I lose due to my lack of micro, macro and probe production, as well as forgetting a pylon.
THEN, instead of playing fakesteve on the map which I practiced the whole time for, a game I easily would have won because I have beat steve like a million times, the groups get switched last night cause some of the "bigshots" that work at this dump complained about the groups. whaa whaa whaa. So, I get stuck playing a guy that isnt even on the staff, FA, who plays loser protoss. He took like 5 expos with only cannons and I went mass lings and built every tech building around. However, I didnt attack once, and then he went sair dt and I quit while being totally bm in the channel.
I was trying to do live rwa during the games, but you can all go to hell.
FUck you.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 16 2017 20:51 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2017 20:42 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On April 16 2017 20:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
FA at his peak was definitely one of the best players outside korea. slightly below your mondragon sen draco testie ret, but hard to really differentiate between the group of players below these ones. I have traumatic (blocked) memories of my first tournament/event games of any kind (I don't remember in what event it was.... don't remind me if you do lol :D) vs you... haha that must be the TL staff tourney we played in early 2005! Here is a live report thread ; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/22684-the-tkwl-domination-threadhere's
a replayBut this was before you peaked, which was more like 2006-2007, I remember being surprised by how much you improved during a short period of time! :p
I'm very glad it's probably corrupted by patches by now ;d!!!
Yeah 2006 I played insanely much, I think I played 900 games the season I hit A+... And getting nearly unlimited practice games (and getting bopped repeatedly by) with MidiaN/Ret/Testie helped a lot.
Jamie had some vicious ZvP...
Btw, if anyone could point me in the direction of where I could find some (preferably protoss) replay packs I would appreciate it. Want to steal some builds that aren't pre-bisu vs savior era..
Oh! That's another cool memory. RomAD, the official BWChart hotkey savant who knew like every single korean progamer that played on ICCUP because they'd send him his replays and he'd tell them who the smurfs they played against were...
I got my hands on a bunch of pre-breakout Bisu and Pusan games from there, my pvz got so much better from those... and I got a headstart on 2 base arbiter rushing before it was cool
On April 16 2017 20:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
LOOL
Manifesto7 Profile Blog PM Joined November 2002 Osaka25589 Posts
January 16 2005 02:48 CET #9
FUCK THIS BULLSHIT.
Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK. BW is rigged making it impossible for me to get ANY OTHER MATCHUP VS P THEN PvP aka faggotland. Seriously, I get random P vs stupid Bill's protoss, go for the double proxy gate in the sweetest position, but then realize I cant micro zealots AT ALL. AND the fucker goes two gate himself because he is a big gaping vagina. Obviously I lose due to my lack of micro, macro and probe production, as well as forgetting a pylon.
THEN, instead of playing fakesteve on the map which I practiced the whole time for, a game I easily would have won because I have beat steve like a million times, the groups get switched last night cause some of the "bigshots" that work at this dump complained about the groups. whaa whaa whaa. So, I get stuck playing a guy that isnt even on the staff, FA, who plays loser protoss. He took like 5 expos with only cannons and I went mass lings and built every tech building around. However, I didnt attack once, and then he went sair dt and I quit while being totally bm in the channel.
I was trying to do live rwa during the games, but you can all go to hell.
FUck you.
Ah, good times.
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On April 16 2017 15:17 Hot_Bid wrote:
Person A played BW for 15 years and never touched another game.
Person B played BW, then SC2, then returned for SC:R.
These are just personal choices, what games to enjoy. Person A does not deserve more "credit" or something simply for choosing to be monogamous to a hobby. There is no need to feel superior to others because you chose to be "faithful" to one, because games are not sports teams or relationships. Everyone should be happy people are playing BW again.
not directed at you personally, but at some trolls who try to make it sound like this is an argument about "purity". I simply quote you here, because you sum up the thesis in a nutshell.
i played Sc2 from the beta onwards, second wave of invites iirc that was given out to staff people for the german broodwar fanpage i did content for back then. I genuinly enjoyed it for a time and switched back to Broodwar in late WoL. i played some games after that too until everybody played Hots, which i didnt buy myself.
im "impure" by that standard. it's not about that. i wrote above multiple times what it IS about, so im not gonna repeat myself.
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On April 16 2017 17:33 mca64Launcher_ wrote:
Sc2 > bw
Thank you.
That baits are no longer funny, Harley.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
why the fuck are you guys here when you could be watching ASL.
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Jinro this is the best source of replays we have atm http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/310883-replays
not sure if it will work with 1.18 ,it scares me.
i can personally recommend you Sky replaypack,he play very different from the rest,more agresive,and calculated attack timings.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 16 2017 21:12 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Jinro this is the best source of replays we have atm http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/310883-replaysnot sure if it will work with 1.18 ,it scares me. i can personally recommend you Sky replaypack,he play very different from the rest,more agresive,and calculated attack timings.
Excellent, thanks
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ICCup replay section
Browsing through, there's a lot of DOTA and older games uploaded again tho. Looks interesting from linked page onwards i think. " ESBP ICCup Nation League " is the recently finished Nation War league hosted by iccup. Good to get an impression of foreign level of play, tho level of play is not always the highest.
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I'm happy to see all the old gosu foreigners talking about brood war again. What saddens me is that since 1999 I can't reach C on iccup and these guys will probably do it in SCR in about a month or so haha
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On April 16 2017 21:37 Broodwar4lyf wrote:
I'm happy to see all the old gosu foreigners talking about brood war again. What saddens me is that since 1999 I can't reach C on iccup and these guys will probably do it in SCR in about a month or so haha
Do you go to work? I suspect they can do it because they can find enough time to practise and if they have enough passion, then it should be good. Also, they'll probably be able to remember what they did in the past to distinguish themselves from noobs.
Edit: It'll be nice to have a tournament for people like Draco, Mondragon, NonY and so on for old time's sake. I miss BW TSL.
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Still mad at Dissy for losing to PJ and Ex to SarenS in the sandlot finals
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So, to all these Tl peeps who switched to SC2 when it came out and then got bopped by koreans and quit when the game got figured out: are you going to come back to BW?
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EPT
