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![[image loading]](http://i65.tinypic.com/9tlopf.jpg)
Hi everyone,
I'm starting up a tutorial series for beginners and intermediate zerg players.
The first few parts will be about the zerg vs zerg matchup with the first video specifically about 12 pool vs 9pool/overpool.
The intention is to pass on a lot of information in a general way while showcasing a specific game. I hope that players can then incorporate this information and thinking in their own playing.
I put a lot of time and effort into this video (first one I've ever made so it was definitely a challenge). I hope people will find it useful and leave constructive feedback so I can improve the following ones.
I will be updating this OP with all the following tutorials so stay tuned!
ZvZ
+ Show Spoiler [Tutorial Series 1: 12 Pool vs 9 Pool/…] +
+ Show Spoiler [Supplementary video to 12 Pool vs 9 P…] +
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This is some really high quality material.
I envy you.
I'm happy I don't have to play ZvZ
edit: maybe this ought to be moved to the Strategy section?
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This is really good and will be looking forward to more of these.
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Excellent video, particularly in "mentality" part. A lot of tutorials tend to concentrate on "what to do" instead "why do it", while this one focuses on reasoning and decisionmaking. Good work and cannot wait for more. Hope, you'll cover other matchups in the future as well. Do you plan to cover other popular maps? How cross-spawn situation differs from the one covered here (scouting overlord is late to see Lair)? What if 9pool/overpool is followed by nat hatch or in-base hatch instead of Lair? How can I benefit from that? [Gazillion of other questions later  ]
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The quality of this tutorial is astoundingly good. I'm very happy that you made this.
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Very nice in both content and production I will recommend this to new zerg players
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United States11390 Posts
This wasn't that bad.
There were some comments that I wanted to make while watching but i've forgotten most of them now.
I will say though that there are other overlord scouting patterns that exist too and should be made aware of. It will be of way more relevance when you do the 12hatch one ie sending overlord cross map. This works by abusing the "standard" overlord scouting patterns on 4p maps and the assumptions people make when they dont see an overlord at x time and can be used for stuff like much safer 12hatching etc.
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United States1434 Posts
This video is really well done and I learned a few things myself.
Also, I want to point out a few things. You say to take a drone off of the gas at 100 gas when going 12 pool. I think it's important to specify to pull off the drone that brings back 88 gas. The other two remaining drones will give the 100 gas as fast as possible without needing the drone that gave the 88 gas. Also you might want to mention that commonly the mutalisk zerg will make zerglings himself against the sporing zerg. Then they'll run those zerglings up the ramp and use mutalisks to cut off your own zerglings from getting up your own ramp They can also go directly for the spores or pick away at drones at the natural if there aren't any or very few zerglings. Sometimes themutalisk player can also not go zerglings and just drone and expand too. I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but did you explain why overlords scout usually clockwise?
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i wish you gl hf with your videos. unfortunately i cant give you the "Bakuryu seal of approval™". ^^
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On November 26 2016 17:37 Bakuryu wrote:
i wish you gl hf with your videos. unfortunately i cant give you the "Bakuryu seal of approval™". ^^
Now, I guess I'm not the only one here who'd be very interested to know why that exactly is ^^
Or do you just mean that such a seal doesn't exist? Then right off to the Qualitätssicherungszertifikatsamt or how it's called.
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On November 26 2016 10:39 Highgamer wrote:
This is some really high quality material.
I envy you.
I'm happy I don't have to play ZvZ
edit: maybe this ought to be moved to the Strategy section?
Thanks for the nice comment.
ZvZ was a pain for me in the beginning, but now that I've gotten better at it, it is quite fun
On November 26 2016 12:17 SCC-Faust wrote:
This is really good and will be looking forward to more of these.
On November 26 2016 12:38 ninazerg wrote:
The quality of this tutorial is astoundingly good. I'm very happy that you made this.
On November 26 2016 12:40 FyRe_DragOn wrote:Very nice in both content and production I will recommend this to new zerg players
On November 26 2016 13:41 HerbMon wrote:
Wow. Keep it up!
On November 26 2016 17:38 toriak wrote:
nice
Thank you all for the nice comments. It means a lot.
On November 26 2016 12:22 shaggles wrote:Excellent video, particularly in "mentality" part. A lot of tutorials tend to concentrate on "what to do" instead "why do it", while this one focuses on reasoning and decisionmaking. Good work and cannot wait for more. Hope, you'll cover other matchups in the future as well. Do you plan to cover other popular maps? How cross-spawn situation differs from the one covered here (scouting overlord is late to see Lair)? What if 9pool/overpool is followed by nat hatch or in-base hatch instead of Lair? How can I benefit from that? [Gazillion of other questions later ]
The plan is indeed to talk about the other matchups as well but I fear even just covering zerg vs zerg will be a long term project.
I would like to talk about other maps (2-players, 3-players), I am not sure what to consider a popular map right now though. iCCup's Overwatch? Heartbreak Ridge? Blue Storm?
The identification of the build order for a cross-spawn will primarily come down to checking the opponent's zergling timing/speed timing. Your first overlord will generally arrive by the time the spire has finished (9 pool) or is about to finish (overpool). Depending on how aggressive you have been or are being, you might even not sent your overlord towards his main anymore since you're sure to lose it. And you most likely have gotten your scouting information with zerglings in this scenario.
What I can do however, is add a supplementary video where I talk about everything together: the lair first style, a 9 pool-ing opponent, and the cross-spawn situation.
I don't think following up with a inbase hatchery or a natural hatchery is viable. An inbase hatchery instead of a lair throws away the only advantage you really have i.e. the faster mutalisks and it will be insanely difficult to defend a natural hatchery, in fact I don't think you will be able to hold onto it.
On November 26 2016 15:47 Harem wrote:
This wasn't that bad.
There were some comments that I wanted to make while watching but i've forgotten most of them now.
I will say though that there are other overlord scouting patterns that exist too and should be made aware of. It will be of way more relevance when you do the 12hatch one ie sending overlord cross map. This works by abusing the "standard" overlord scouting patterns on 4p maps and the assumptions people make when they dont see an overlord at x time and can be used for stuff like much safer 12hatching etc.
Sorry to hear you didn't like it. It would of course be helpful if you could actually provide the comments.
I am aware of alternative scouting patterns but they aren't very relevant for this particular scenario.
For myself: As a 12 pooling player I want to know if my opponent is doing a 12 hatch or if he's going for something very aggressive. I can entirely exclude both options from one spawning location by sending it in a clockwise manner. If I send my overlord in any other way, I lose out on information.
Anticlockwise: I can not tell if my opponent went 12 hatch (especially if the 12 hatching player used a different scouting pattern as you mention. I personally like to scout anticlockwise when I'm intending on a 12 hatch since I will change it into a 12 pool if I scout an overlord coming towards me.)
Crosswise: Not very useful.
For my opponent (9 pool or overpool): Doesn't seem very useful either for them to go for anything else than clockwise, if they're intending on going speed first and being aggressive.
We are 12 hatching => big chance we send the overlord in a different direction than clockwise. He does not meet our overlord and might send his zerglings to the wrong location.
We are 12 pooling => we send our overlord in a clockwise manner. Good, he will meet our overlord earlier than intended. What benefit does this give him? We will still see his zerglings and he still would have known our position on time even if he had send his overlord in clockwise manner.
Same thing really for other type of openings.
On November 26 2016 16:08 Ty2 wrote:
This video is really well done and I learned a few things myself.
Also, I want to point out a few things. You say to take a drone off of the gas at 100 gas when going 12 pool. I think it's important to specify to pull off the drone that brings back 88 gas. The other two remaining drones will give the 100 gas as fast as possible without needing the drone that gave the 88 gas. Also you might want to mention that commonly the mutalisk zerg will make zerglings himself against the sporing zerg. Then they'll run those zerglings up the ramp and use mutalisks to cut off your own zerglings from getting up your own ramp They can also go directly for the spores or pick away at drones at the natural if there aren't any or very few zerglings. Sometimes themutalisk player can also not go zerglings and just drone and expand too. I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but did you explain why overlords scout usually clockwise?
Thanks very much Ty2. This would indeed have been useful to mention in the video. I did mention that as the 12 pooling player will rely on zerglings to defend, he has to be careful to not lose them needlessly as the opponent can use zerglings to snipe spores etc but I did not think about mentioning that specific tactic. I also forgot to mention to add spores as the mutalisk count grows since >= 6 mutalisks iirc can take out a single spore without losing a single one.
Also, what did you learn from the video? I'm very curious since you are such a high level player.
On November 26 2016 17:37 Bakuryu wrote:
i wish you gl hf with your videos. unfortunately i cant give you the "Bakuryu seal of approval™". ^^
Thanks Bakuryu. What can I improve on to earn the seal the next time?
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Nice, definitely a solid content to a new players or these at lower rank who want to improve.
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United States1434 Posts
On November 27 2016 00:11 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2016 16:08 Ty2 wrote:
This video is really well done and I learned a few things myself.
Also, I want to point out a few things. You say to take a drone off of the gas at 100 gas when going 12 pool. I think it's important to specify to pull off the drone that brings back 88 gas. The other two remaining drones will give the 100 gas as fast as possible without needing the drone that gave the 88 gas. Also you might want to mention that commonly the mutalisk zerg will make zerglings himself against the sporing zerg. Then they'll run those zerglings up the ramp and use mutalisks to cut off your own zerglings from getting up your own ramp They can also go directly for the spores or pick away at drones at the natural if there aren't any or very few zerglings. Sometimes themutalisk player can also not go zerglings and just drone and expand too. I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but did you explain why overlords scout usually clockwise? Thanks very much Ty2. This would indeed have been useful to mention in the video. I did mention that as the 12 pooling player will rely on zerglings to defend, he has to be careful to not lose them needlessly as the opponent can use zerglings to snipe spores etc but I did not think about mentioning that specific tactic. I also forgot to mention to add spores as the mutalisk count grows since >= 6 mutalisks iirc can take out a single spore without losing a single one. Also, what did you learn from the video? I'm very curious since you are such a high level player.
Me, a high level player? You're too kind. I learned about how you can tell the difference from a 9 hatch and a 12 hatch from its hp if the overlord scouts on the first try the opponent. Also, the timing telling you if it's overpool if the overlord is at the opponent's ramp and if lings are moving out is also nice. The spore colony time (or was it creep colony?) and muta travelling distance time is also another nice timing I didn't really know. I guess I'd do these things through feel and rough estimation but still these are very nice timings.
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Great video! Definitely very very useful for zerg players that want to get into the ZvZ madness!!
I will for sure recommend this tutorial to fellow zerg friends
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On November 27 2016 00:41 trutaCz wrote:
Nice, definitely a solid content to a new players or these at lower rank who want to improve.
On November 27 2016 07:42 Atom[Bomb] wrote:Great video! Definitely very very useful for zerg players that want to get into the ZvZ madness!! I will for sure recommend this tutorial to fellow zerg friends
Thanks for the nice comments
On November 27 2016 01:15 Ty2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2016 00:11 B-royal wrote:On November 26 2016 16:08 Ty2 wrote:
This video is really well done and I learned a few things myself.
Also, I want to point out a few things. You say to take a drone off of the gas at 100 gas when going 12 pool. I think it's important to specify to pull off the drone that brings back 88 gas. The other two remaining drones will give the 100 gas as fast as possible without needing the drone that gave the 88 gas. Also you might want to mention that commonly the mutalisk zerg will make zerglings himself against the sporing zerg. Then they'll run those zerglings up the ramp and use mutalisks to cut off your own zerglings from getting up your own ramp They can also go directly for the spores or pick away at drones at the natural if there aren't any or very few zerglings. Sometimes themutalisk player can also not go zerglings and just drone and expand too. I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but did you explain why overlords scout usually clockwise? Thanks very much Ty2. This would indeed have been useful to mention in the video. I did mention that as the 12 pooling player will rely on zerglings to defend, he has to be careful to not lose them needlessly as the opponent can use zerglings to snipe spores etc but I did not think about mentioning that specific tactic. I also forgot to mention to add spores as the mutalisk count grows since >= 6 mutalisks iirc can take out a single spore without losing a single one. Also, what did you learn from the video? I'm very curious since you are such a high level player. Me, a high level player? You're too kind. I learned about how you can tell the difference from a 9 hatch and a 12 hatch from its hp if the overlord scouts on the first try the opponent. Also, the timing telling you if it's overpool if the overlord is at the opponent's ramp and if lings are moving out is also nice. The spore colony time (or was it creep colony?) and muta travelling distance time is also another nice timing I didn't really know. I guess I'd do these things through feel and rough estimation but still these are very nice timings.
Well you are a consistent A rank as far as I know ty2 so you are a high level player. As far as foreigners goes there's really only one "class" above you anymore , the semi-professionals or however you like to call them.
In game I also use rough estimations, relative timings and reference points. But in my mind, there's 2 ways to learn these things:
1. Play dozen upon dozen of games.
2. Sit down, analyse, write down absolute timings and then try to identify relative reference points that you can use in-game.
And I definitely prefer the 2nd method.
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This is just the type of video I needed to start trying zerg! Thank you.
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Short update:
Added a Supplementary video about 12 pool vs 9 pool since I felt some things were left unsaid/not shown. I don't consider this part of the real series, it's just an extra video. I also delve some more into the analysis of one specific game, what happened and what I should have done.
Hope people enjoy!
+ Show Spoiler [Supplementary video to 12 Pool vs 9 P…] +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-sht4eFqs&feature=youtu.be
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I think you really needed to briefly mention the advantage you get by fighting near your buildings or overlords in Muta vs Muta to deny the bounce damage.
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EPT
