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KT Giga Showmatch: Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, Stork! - Page 28

Forum Index > BW General
563 CommentsPost a Reply
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Link for Tastosis - http://afreeca.tv/36872425
Link for Sayle - http://afreeca.tv/36882510
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
November 20 2016 09:55 GMT
#541
Tastosis were away from BW for too long, simply put. They still know the basics, but the finer details are gone. Its not condescending to say that, its just reality. Thats how things go with everybody and everything.

I thought that Sayles cast was better when it comes to raw BW knowledge, thats why I preferred his Stream. Tastosis are better at hyping things up in my opinion. Sayle is more down to earth and analytical of the game play. Not saying that either one is good or bad or better or worse. Its simply differences with the different casters.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
November 20 2016 09:59 GMT
#542
On November 20 2016 18:55 RoomOfMush wrote:
Tastosis were away from BW for too long, simply put. They still know the basics, but the finer details are gone. Its not condescending to say that, its just reality. Thats how things go with everybody and everything.

I thought that Sayles cast was better when it comes to raw BW knowledge, thats why I preferred his Stream. Tastosis are better at hyping things up in my opinion. Sayle is more down to earth and analytical of the game play. Not saying that either one is good or bad or better or worse. Its simply differences with the different casters.

Tastosis would attract more SC2 viewers i think than Sayle just because its a name they know more i'd say.

I do agree they're probably way too rusty though
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2267 Posts
November 20 2016 13:02 GMT
#543
i'm really happy that Bisu won the whole thing, and even happier that he beat FlaSh on Fighting Spirit.

ASL is going to be AMAZING can't wait.
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
ramon
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4842 Posts
November 20 2016 13:57 GMT
#544
just caught up with the vods, games were good enough for me, but the best things were obviously all the feels, memories and bisu winning
bisu
Sheik_
Profile Joined November 2016
27 Posts
November 20 2016 14:06 GMT
#545
best game was flash vs bisu. that hold was amazing. how the hell.
ortseam
Profile Joined April 2015
996 Posts
November 20 2016 14:37 GMT
#546
Bisu vs Flash was pretty good and so were the BvJ series,also nice to have two different english casts at once
Btw i don't see how Stork is going to qualify for ASL, he only has half a month to improve really a lot
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
November 20 2016 16:29 GMT
#547
what's going on with Stork? He's coming back to BW fulltime?
Writerptrk
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
November 20 2016 17:49 GMT
#548
Well, there was no way I was going to miss watching a TBLS cast. Yet I'm going to have to be the downer and say that they were "merely ok" in their quality of play. Technically they certainly seemed alright, yet none of them had the deep, refined quality of play that they were known for back in the day. There's nothing specific that I can point to that epitomizes what is wrong with how they played, yet it is pretty clear that they are not playing as they did during their prime. Still, fun to watch.

The casters... well neither set is really known for their depth of technical commentary, despite the fact that both Tastosis and Sayle are pretty decent at the game. I watched the Tastosis version but if Sayle is about the same as I remember him he would be similar in his tendency to explain the obvious (DTs plus corsairs kill drones!) while underplaying the larger issues (macro-economy, tech advantages, specific timings). Nothing to be disappointed about, they have basically always been that way. They did a pretty good job as far as English language casts go.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
November 20 2016 18:11 GMT
#549
OMG~~
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10129 Posts
November 20 2016 18:12 GMT
#550
... Can I please get Korean-audio VOD??? How is there no link for that yet?
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
LocoBolon
Profile Joined June 2012
Argentina243 Posts
November 20 2016 18:55 GMT
#551
On November 20 2016 16:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:
pretty sure black parade is like Bisu's theme


Or maybe, just maybe is this... ahhh the memories
Thank you Kim Taek for show me that crappy korean music can be awesome too
Standard Queens
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10129 Posts
November 20 2016 22:46 GMT
#552
On November 21 2016 03:12 Jealous wrote:
... Can I please get Korean-audio VOD??? How is there no link for that yet?

http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/15300819

For anyone else interested
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
November 20 2016 23:20 GMT
#553
Bisu vs Flash was awesome.
So was Sayle.
ॐ
KenNage
Profile Joined May 2009
Chile885 Posts
November 21 2016 00:21 GMT
#554
I don't have any problems with Tastosis or Sayle's Casting, I enjoy both, they're pretty funny (at least to me) and if that helps to bring new people to Brood War, why would that be a problem? I don't mind their rustiness, enjoy the games.

I just think we should all be grateful that we have Brood War again, like it should be. Clapping and cheering, this feeling no other game gives me, I couldn't be happier or more exited for next month's ASL .
Barneyk
Profile Joined November 2008
Sweden305 Posts
November 21 2016 00:29 GMT
#555
My problem with Tastosis is that they spend way to much time and energy hyping stuff instead of commentating the actual games. They have done so in pretty much every commentery I have seen them do. I can see the appeal in that but it is just not for me.
They never even call out the build orders as they happen, they are busy talking about other stuff and then "I think this was an overpool" when the pool just finishes and stuff like that.
They do a great job at what they are doing so I feel like an asshat complaining about it, but it isn't really for me and I miss Nukethestars!

I really enjoyed the games though but it is clear that the overall game of brood war right now isn't as sharp and finetuned as it was when everyone spent 10+ hours a day practicing in the team houses.

I am very very excited to see where Brood War goes from here though and I will support it anyway I can!
nah
LucasWoJ
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States936 Posts
November 21 2016 01:41 GMT
#556
On November 20 2016 18:35 Cele wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2016 22:25 Uldridge wrote:
On November 19 2016 21:10 Cele wrote:
nice cast by Tastosis. But they're trying to sell the point that they are super duper experts in the game and the scene a bit to hard when they're not.

+ Show Spoiler +
I mean every average guy still playing the game prolly

- doesn't have to ask himself how many zeal+probe hit it takes to kill a drone with +0/+1
- is not surprised how good JD is; we know which accounts he plays on fish
- doesn't call the citadel of Adun twilight council by mistake


Again, i like the casts but stop acting like you know everything and are such high level experts etc when you're just not.

I don't get this sentiment.. They catered more to the people that aren't the average guy you mentioned (people flowing over from SCII).
They are super duper experts because they were the original english casters for big tournaments like GOM. And Artosis was a pretty high level BW player. You probably know this, but I think your post is pretty condescending towards them and I won't eat it up.


i think you're taking this a little personal. I'm not condescending when i say i liked the cast and i simply mentioned their self-presentation of being an expert doesn't match certain gaps in their ingame knowledge.

Yeah im aware- im fact i loved to watch GOM TV Classic Series with Tasteless+Littlesusie and Superdanielman later. Artosis never casted that, but he he did a lot of awesome things.

I think i simply have high expectations towards the premier casters of this game. Tastosis casts used to entertain and educate me on the highest level and i'd like to have that back. That would require them to get into touch with the metagame, developments in the game and the competitive scene a bit more than they currently are.

Asking for that seems like a reasonable request to me and no "heresy" towards the godstatus of Tastosis, as you seem to perceive it.

By the way: Yeah i recall Artosis as a good foreigner, here's a list of his ahcievements achievementst How that makes my point being condescending, is beyond me tho. Care to elaborate?


As someone who's played the game for over 10 years, I totally agree with you and you're definitely right. They're not gods and nothing you said was disrespectful in any way. Any D+/C- player could probably have provided more insightful commentary on those games than Tastosis, and that's probably been true since GOM TV (everyone back in the day looking for strategic insights knew day9 >>>> tastosis in that category). But....that's never been their thing and they're loved because they're really entertaining, provide a solid bridge between many communities, AND because they make these mistakes and don't take them too seriously. It's actually really entertaining for me to listen to them clearly miscall a build only to hear them catch it a minute later and laugh it off.

Rather than their lack of insight, I think it's more fair to criticize what seemed to be a lack of preparation. I think professional casters should watch some recent BW streams, do some research, and get a sense of the new meta in BW. Tastosis have been casting SCII for years now, and I wish they had done a little more homework on BW, even if the commentary is geared towards non-BW player. Focusing on the map, how it's generally played, how the players have been streaming, and the history between these players could really have made it even more entertaining--even for the casual observer. One example of how prep would have helped: Jaedong's game 1 5-hatch, delayed lair build (which I don't think he'd ever done before) against bisu was almost assuredly influenced by a build effort pioneered against bisu's 1-gate pressure into expansion/forge several months ago cross-position circuit breaker (which was seen as sort of a soft counter to Bisu's new 1-gate pressure into FE corsair). Bisu lost that game to effort, who plays a very new age zvp. As others have noted, jaedong has been sticking to 5 hatch, low drone hydra play which he popularized in 2008/2009. But he totally used effort's opener here was probably playing some mind games here, which didn't go unnoticed by Bisu. On destination, the 2-player map as well as the mind-games of the bo3 and previous bisu BO clearly played a factor for jaedong going 9 pool, and if jaedong hadn't thrown away 3 of the 5 lings that got through (and then another 2 that ran into cannons), he would have been quite ahead. These mind games were probably abundantly clear to a lot of people watching the stream, could have been pointed out more comprehensively, and I think they will be in the future. All it takes is a bit more preparation. They'll get there, give them a chance!
"Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are it could have been." - Kurt Vonnegut
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4753 Posts
November 21 2016 02:01 GMT
#557
On November 20 2016 18:35 Cele wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
i think you're taking this a little personal. I'm not condescending when i say i liked the cast and i simply mentioned their self-presentation of being an expert doesn't match certain gaps in their ingame knowledge.

Yeah im aware- im fact i loved to watch GOM TV Classic Series with Tasteless+Littlesusie and Superdanielman later. Artosis never casted that, but he he did a lot of awesome things.

I think i simply have high expectations towards the premier casters of this game. Tastosis casts used to entertain and educate me on the highest level and i'd like to have that back. That would require them to get into touch with the metagame, developments in the game and the competitive scene a bit more than they currently are.

Asking for that seems like a reasonable request to me and no "heresy" towards the godstatus of Tastosis, as you seem to perceive it.

By the way: Yeah i recall Artosis as a good foreigner, here's a list of his ahcievements achievementst How that makes my point being condescending, is beyond me tho.
Care to elaborate?

Sure, I'll elaborate. Firstly, I didn't want this to sound so angry, but I didn't find a direct way to not sound that way so I'm sorry for that
I mostly was irked by the comment
But they're trying to sell the point that they are super duper experts in the game and the scene a bit to hard when they're not.
because, and this is going to be a semantic argument in the end, I didn't get that feel at all. They went for an entertaining cast which catered both to old school and people that have no experience into the esoteric experience that is watching SC:BW.
Then your spoilered statement of the average joe is just assumptions made that are entirely fabricated from your viewpoint and make kind of no sense, but that doesn't really matter lol.
And your last sentence reiterated the sentiment you already stated before and I guess that made it feel like a bit more condescending to me than I wanted to.
From my POV they just tried to deliver an entertaining cast and not seem like they were super duper in the loop or whatever, they just talked about the game, hyped, bantered, gave some basic shit, etc.. And that's not what I expected from an established value that just casted SCII for 6 years or whatever.
Anyway, my bad if I sounded a little too harsh or mad or whatever, but I did want to oppose the sentiment you felt, which I completely didn't.
Taxes are for Terrans
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
November 21 2016 16:28 GMT
#558
On November 21 2016 11:01 Uldridge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2016 18:35 Cele wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
i think you're taking this a little personal. I'm not condescending when i say i liked the cast and i simply mentioned their self-presentation of being an expert doesn't match certain gaps in their ingame knowledge.

Yeah im aware- im fact i loved to watch GOM TV Classic Series with Tasteless+Littlesusie and Superdanielman later. Artosis never casted that, but he he did a lot of awesome things.

I think i simply have high expectations towards the premier casters of this game. Tastosis casts used to entertain and educate me on the highest level and i'd like to have that back. That would require them to get into touch with the metagame, developments in the game and the competitive scene a bit more than they currently are.

Asking for that seems like a reasonable request to me and no "heresy" towards the godstatus of Tastosis, as you seem to perceive it.

By the way: Yeah i recall Artosis as a good foreigner, here's a list of his ahcievements achievementst How that makes my point being condescending, is beyond me tho.
Care to elaborate?

Sure, I'll elaborate. Firstly, I didn't want this to sound so angry, but I didn't find a direct way to not sound that way so I'm sorry for that
I mostly was irked by the comment
Show nested quote +
But they're trying to sell the point that they are super duper experts in the game and the scene a bit to hard when they're not.
because, and this is going to be a semantic argument in the end, I didn't get that feel at all. They went for an entertaining cast which catered both to old school and people that have no experience into the esoteric experience that is watching SC:BW.
Then your spoilered statement of the average joe is just assumptions made that are entirely fabricated from your viewpoint and make kind of no sense, but that doesn't really matter lol.
And your last sentence reiterated the sentiment you already stated before and I guess that made it feel like a bit more condescending to me than I wanted to.
From my POV they just tried to deliver an entertaining cast and not seem like they were super duper in the loop or whatever, they just talked about the game, hyped, bantered, gave some basic shit, etc.. And that's not what I expected from an established value that just casted SCII for 6 years or whatever.
Anyway, my bad if I sounded a little too harsh or mad or whatever, but I did want to oppose the sentiment you felt, which I completely didn't.


fair enough, we're here to disagree from time to time and discuss opinions, no offense taken. i think i was perhaps a bit to provocative in my post, but it stirred a good discussion imo (;

So i apologize, if my post came of a bit hyperbole.
Broodwar for life!
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1010 Posts
November 21 2016 17:17 GMT
#559
Nice event, pretty good games, but I'm more looking forward to ASL where the real action begins. Also excited about BW 2017 after Tastosis' said big things are coming up. Loved their cast although some stuff like the overpool discussion hurt a bit, but I haven't played BW since 2010 and I'm also very rusty and had to think twice about the number of Zealot/Probe hits to kill lings/Drones, so I understand that they're in the same boat.
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2267 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-22 06:25:18
November 22 2016 06:24 GMT
#560
On November 22 2016 02:17 Freezard wrote:
Nice event, pretty good games, but I'm more looking forward to ASL where the real action begins. Also excited about BW 2017 after Tastosis' said big things are coming up. Loved their cast although some stuff like the overpool discussion hurt a bit, but I haven't played BW since 2010 and I'm also very rusty and had to think twice about the number of Zealot/Probe hits to kill lings/Drones, so I understand that they're in the same boat.


i can totally get that they are rusty and that they can fuck up reading builds or not so deep analisis about the gameplay/strategy. What i can't stand is their sc2 analogies every 2 minutes is annyoing as fk.
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
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