On March 21 2017 20:13 classicyellow83 wrote: Horang2 never broke 30's ever since he came to afreeca. when you're PvT is in the 20's for several months, that's just who you are. Free had good run at PvT for a month in February. Terrans have figured him out and he's losing again. sSak has the third best TvP this year behind Flash and Last. Beating him doesn't exaggerate win rate. Even with 아재리그, they don't make top 5 because they lose all other spon matches.
Really curious. Do you watch any of these games or just go purely by the numbers?
There are tiers to the spon matches. The S tier include players (those who always get the hardest matchups) are Flash, Last, Bisu, Effort and Hero.
Ssak rarely joins these matches and he usually plays the 2nd tier spon matches against people like rush, mini, movie etc. He might have a good winrate against these players but I'm almost certain that he'd have a lower winrate than free against the best.
And your statement about 아재리그 is horseshit. I don't know about organ since he plays occasional spon matches against the better players but FBH has never played spon matches outside of 아재리그 and he has said so himself. And I'm 100% sure he has a better winrate than Ssak.
I've attached some horang2 vods against flash so maybe you can watch for yourself and see how well he seems to play.
I watch these games. One good bo3 against Flash doesn't prove anything. It's what you do consistently matters. Most of the games he loses are just pure OME. You should hear some of the things others say about him when observing his games. Horang2 is just terrible. Both the eye test and record proves he's one of the worst protoss right now.
Go youtube some of his matches vs last. Gee, bisu says shit about Ssak all the time. Hell, his stream title was "If I lose to Ssak, I'll quit sc" during a spon match.
Both sSak and bisu talk shit to each other all the time. They are close. If Horang's PvT is so "overall good" and sSak's TvP is so bad why is Horang2 3-8 against sSak this month alone? and 1-7 last month?
And that thought didn't occur to you when players were talking shit about horang2? And where are you getting this data anyways? First you say that FBH isn't in the top 5 TVP winrate because he lost all his spon matches outside of 아재리그 when he didn't even play 1v1 spon matches.
eekmice, whould you consider Larva a very decent ZvT'er as well? His percentage is very low, but he took some games from Flash in really breathtaking matches.
On March 21 2017 21:48 Zera wrote: eekmice, whould you consider Larva a very decent ZvT'er as well? His percentage is very low, but he took some games from Flash in really breathtaking matches.
There aren't that many good zergs so yes. I'd put him outside of Effort/Hero/Zero and then prob him.
On March 21 2017 21:37 eekmice wrote: And that thought didn't occur to you when players were talking shit about horang2? And where are you getting this data anyways? First you say that FBH isn't in the top 5 TVP winrate because he lost all his spon matches outside of 아재리그 when he didn't even play 1v1 spon matches.
from watching streams.. where else would i get them.... FBH stopped playing other spon matches starting this month. he played other spon matches previous month. Even this month, i know for a fact he lost a game to Best. Last month he went 0-3 against Flash 1-3 against JD 0-2 against Light, 0-1 against Horang2.
On March 21 2017 21:37 eekmice wrote: And that thought didn't occur to you when players were talking shit about horang2? And where are you getting this data anyways? First you say that FBH isn't in the top 5 TVP winrate because he lost all his spon matches outside of 아재리그 when he didn't even play 1v1 spon matches.
from watching streams.. where else would i get them.... FBH stopped playing other spon matches starting this month. he played other spon matches previous month. Even this month, i know for a fact he lost a game to Best. Last month he went 0-3 against Flash 1-3 against JD 0-2 against Light, 0-1 against Horang2.
So you watch every stream at all times of the day. And given that you live in Korea and that some of the 아재리그 games start at 3-4am and end at 6-7am, you record all the data. Seems good. And out of those matches only one is against a toss even if your data is accurate.
Hey I watched the streams too and got data. I saw that Flash went 25-2 but those 2 losses were against free. I've also noticed nal_ra returned to form and crushed flash, last and bisu in 30 straight spon matches. He's gonna win the next ASL.
On March 21 2017 21:37 eekmice wrote: And that thought didn't occur to you when players were talking shit about horang2? And where are you getting this data anyways? First you say that FBH isn't in the top 5 TVP winrate because he lost all his spon matches outside of 아재리그 when he didn't even play 1v1 spon matches.
from watching streams.. where else would i get them.... FBH stopped playing other spon matches starting this month. he played other spon matches previous month. Even this month, i know for a fact he lost a game to Best. Last month he went 0-3 against Flash 1-3 against JD 0-2 against Light, 0-1 against Horang2.
So you watch every stream at all times of the day. And given that you live in Korea and that some of the 아재리그 games start at 3-4am and end at 6-7am, you record all the data. Seems good.
I don't live in korea. I don't watch all the streams. It's easy searching records on ygosu.
On March 21 2017 21:57 eekmice wrote: Hey I watched the streams too and got data. I saw that Flash went 25-2 but those 2 losses were against free. I've also noticed nal_ra returned to form and crushed flash, last and bisu in 30 straight spon matches. He's gonna win the next ASL.
Just as much as some of your data too. You saying that you for sure know that FBH lost to best this month is just as silly. Why the hell would he play best in the first place? There's 0 shot FBH wins when he's been playing avatar with his viewers and dicking around doing mukbangs on stream. And when I hear him say that he hasn't played 1v1 spons this month, I tend to trust him more than you.
On March 21 2017 22:10 eekmice wrote: Just as much as some of your data too. You saying that you for sure know that FBH lost to best this month is just as silly. Why the hell would he play best in the first place? There's 0 shot FBH wins when he's been playing avatar with his viewers and dicking around doing mukbangs on stream. And when I hear him say that he hasn't played 1v1 spons this month, I tend to trust him more than you.
On March 21 2017 22:10 eekmice wrote: Just as much as some of your data too. You saying that you for sure know that FBH lost to best this month is just as silly. Why the hell would he play best in the first place? There's 0 shot FBH wins when he's been playing avatar with his viewers and dicking around doing mukbangs on stream. And when I hear him say that he hasn't played 1v1 spons this month, I tend to trust him more than you.
Why you trolling? lol
Flash isn't the only reference when it comes to TvP. Just because a guy beat him in a good bo3 or bo5 doesn't make him better than Bisu. Maybe Flash's style favors the other guy, maybe Flash was having an off day, maybe Flash brings his A game vs Bisu because he cares more/spon matches are worth more. There was a day when Free went 7-1 vs Flash and everyone started saying he was beast, then you look at his stats and they're overall low as fuck. Where is free in all these tournaments anyway?
There are fans that collect all this data and post on ygosu every month in case you don't know. If you read korean you can check there
Free has his moments vs Flash and wins a couple. Thats what happens when you keep playing one person and skill levels arent that far from each other, i mean the pro levels are reallyon another level, but from Free to Flash it's not as far as a D Iccup playing a C+
EPT
