EPT9th Sonic StarLeague info - Page 16
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Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
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dr0pship
Canada520 Posts
can anyone translate whats been said in the video? | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On January 04 2014 02:25 Epoxide wrote: Don't forget SSL9 Group Selection is in ! so close. I thought it was on the 7th for some reason >.> | ||
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lemmata
468 Posts
On January 02 2014 06:09 Chef wrote: Sonic fighting~ ^^ This should be really fun to watch. Here's hoping all the players take it seriously and don't show up late or any nonsense. It's Korea lol. I have no first hand experience to relate, but Korea doesn't strike me as a country that is as respectful to contracts as, say, Canada and the USA. Different cultures and all that. Contracts are legally binding in Canada, but it's not the case in all countries. I suspect especially with a small business / small scale operation like this, Sonic wouldn't want to even go to the trouble of enforcing a contract like that. What I'm saying is entirely conjecture and you should do more research if you're interested in the topic, but this is the impression I've gotten from reading TL over the years, observing KeSPA etc. Long story short, probably not that much Sonic can do. If Monkey3 dropped out they probably had a reason, like unexpected expenses leaving less money in their budget for something like this or whatever. I give Sonic the benefit of a doubt, anyway. I have lived in all three countries mentioned. Korea respects contracts as much as any country. The contract with Monkey3 was annulled rather than violated. Usually, at least one party will have the right to void the contract. This is true even in the US and Canada. South Korea (yes, not North!) has some horrific laws (e.g., People have gone to jail for posting predictions about the financial markets on the internet as scapegoats for bad government policy) but I do not think that the lack of respect for contracts was the issue here (i.e., they respect laws, but the laws are bad?). Far more likely is the case that Monkey3 had provisions that allowed it to unilaterally back out of the contract. Sonic himself stated that both parties agreed to cancel the contract. But yeah, there's nothing Sonic can do because everything was done legally. Monkey3 was in a position of power and wrote a contract that allowed them to do this. Given that Monkey3 is spending a lot of money on advertising in Korea, it is reasonable to assume that their sponsorship of SSL was a small expense for them. All the circumstantial evidence points to them trying to abuse their position of power because they could do so legally. I think that most small companies would have accepted Monkey3's new terms even if it meant passing the cost onto the viewers because it is a matter of survival for many of them. Sonic decided not to do so because he is not running SSL for money and has his own business. | ||
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miercat
394 Posts
On January 04 2014 03:57 lemmata wrote: I have lived in all three countries mentioned. Korea respects contracts as much as any country. The contract with Monkey3 was annulled rather than violated. Usually, at least one party will have the right to void the contract. This is true even in the US and Canada. South Korea (yes, not North!) has some horrific laws (e.g., People have gone to jail for posting predictions about the financial markets on the internet as scapegoats for bad government policy) but I do not think that the lack of respect for contracts was the issue here (i.e., they respect laws, but the laws are bad?). Far more likely is the case that Monkey3 had provisions that allowed it to unilaterally back out of the contract. Sonic himself stated that both parties agreed to cancel the contract. But yeah, there's nothing Sonic can do because everything was done legally. Monkey3 was in a position of power and wrote a contract that allowed them to do this. Given that Monkey3 is spending a lot of money on advertising in Korea, it is reasonable to assume that their sponsorship of SSL was a small expense for them. All the circumstantial evidence points to them trying to abuse their position of power because they could do so legally. I think that most small companies would have accepted Monkey3's new terms even if it meant passing the cost onto the viewers because it is a matter of survival for many of them. Sonic decided not to do so because he is not running SSL for money and has his own business. It would be interesting to know what Monkey3's plan was from start to finish - did they plan the timing/revisions from the start, or was it a subsequent decision at some point. In any case, it is notable that they got a lot of exposure, just from the announcements, for presumably no investment. When you mentioned passing the "cost" on to viewers, was that just metaphorical? I had assumed the conditions would be relating to something like more obtrusive/frequent advertising, and that Sonic was objecting on the basis of setting a precedent for future business relations and showing he will not be pushed around by other parties; which would be a prudent consideration at this point. In Sonic's Message, were the figures Sonic quoted for his personal subsidization of SSL7 and SSL8, in US or KR dollars? It is good that Sonic will continue his efforts regarding BW. He is doing a good job. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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lemmata
468 Posts
On January 04 2014 06:05 miercat wrote: I would like to know as well, but we will probably never know.It would be interesting to know what Monkey3's plan was from start to finish - did they plan the timing/revisions from the start, or was it a subsequent decision at some point. In any case, it is notable that they got a lot of exposure, just from the announcements, for presumably no investment. On January 04 2014 06:05 miercat wrote: Well, his wording seems to suggest that the "cost" part was literal dollars, but that's based on my interpretation of the innuendo, not fact. Sonic has not shown any aversion to frequent advertising in the past.When you mentioned passing the "cost" on to viewers, was that just metaphorical? I had assumed the conditions would be relating to something like more obtrusive/frequent advertising, and that Sonic was objecting on the basis of setting a precedent for future business relations and showing he will not be pushed around by other parties; which would be a prudent consideration at this point. On January 04 2014 06:05 miercat wrote: That's a rough US dollar estimate based on recent exchange rates. Some of Sonic's past SSL non-prize expenses include: Incentive payments for wins in non-placement rounds, Travel and lodging expenses for players, Auditorium rental fees ($$$), Performance fees for girl singer groups ($$$), Booth girls' wages ($$), Staff wages ($$), Bandwidth, Door prizes, and more. There are many other expenses that go into the whole production, so I am surprised that the numbers were not higher. That said, Sonic might be far more disappointed by the loss of a sponsor who could lend more legitimacy to SSL (after all the effort he put into it) than he is by potential monetary losses (His shoe business seems to be doing well, at least anecdotally).In Sonic's Message, were the figures Sonic quoted for his personal subsidization of SSL7 and SSL8, in US or KR dollars? On January 04 2014 06:05 miercat wrote: Indeed, Sonic's da man. What a boss.It is good that Sonic will continue his efforts regarding BW. He is doing a good job. | ||
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miercat
394 Posts
On January 04 2014 06:05 miercat wrote: When you mentioned passing the "cost" on to viewers, was that just metaphorical? I had assumed the conditions would be relating to something like more obtrusive/frequent advertising, and that Sonic was objecting on the basis of setting a precedent for future business relations and showing he will not be pushed around by other parties; which would be a prudent consideration at this point. On January 04 2014 07:33 lemmata wrote:Well, his wording seems to suggest that the "cost" part was literal dollars, but that's based on my interpretation of the innuendo, not fact. Sonic has not shown any aversion to frequent advertising in the past. Just to clarify, was the wording in question essentially the following?: "After the contracting the sponsorship, I had been making arrangements for the group selection ceremony in preparation for SSL9. Yesterday evening, Monkey3 requested that we change the content of our contract. After failing to come to a mutual agreement on the requested changes, both parties agreed to annul the contract today. (T/N: We know that the contract was signed already because it needed to be annulled) Although I did everything to continue with the league sponsorship, I determined that it was too unreasonable for me to impose the new conditions proposed by Monkey3 on you---the viewers. This was the biggest reason for the decision to void the contract." Based on the content of that specific message i.e.: "[imposing new conditions on the viewer]" it seems difficult to ascertain the nature of the conditions, and I did not see anything that would specifically imply monetary costs for the viewer. Perhaps there could be subtleties to the original message, or additional contextual information that I'm not aware of.. but, theoretically, it would seem like a direct monetary cost to the viewer would be a somewhat radical, unlikely, and potentially counterproductive. The SSL Leagues have been broadcasted for free on Afreeca, and the OSL/MSL, other tournaments, have never had a direct cost associated with viewing. The paradigm has always been sponsor money=viewership/advertising. I'm not sure if it would make sense for monkey3 to sponsor a tournament (and presumably want as many viewers as possible, to maximize advertising power) but then impose some sort of monetary cost on viewers- which is only going to lower viewership. The specifics are unclear, but it seemed reasonably likely that the "conditions" mentioned, might be regarding things that would negatively affect the viewing experience...possibly something relating to frequency of advertising, but possibly something else. But yes, this is just an interpretation based on limited information. | ||
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lemmata
468 Posts
On January 04 2014 13:51 miercat wrote:Based on the content of that specific message i.e.: "[imposing new conditions on the viewer]" it seems difficult to ascertain the nature of the conditions, and I did not see anything that would specifically imply monetary costs for the viewer...But yes, this is just an interpretation based on limited information. My guess is an interpretation as well. 1) Frequency of sponsor mentions has never been a big deal for Sonic and part of a running joke on his channel. 2) As you say, I don't think that they were going to set up a pay wall for the reasons you describe. 3) One speculation that others have also brought up is a clause requiring a certain number of people to sign up or buy stuff on the Monkey3 site. I would consider that a direct cost even if it isn't a pay wall for watching. Most Koreans are tied into a music service called Melon (it's that green music player that you often see on streams) that dominates most of the market and offers a better music selection... As curious as everyone is about the exact details of what happened, I am afraid that we will never know. All that is left is to support Sonic, I guess. The group selection ceremony is going to be the shiznit. :-) | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
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mjuuy
Norway506 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On January 04 2014 17:53 Heartland wrote: are group ceremonies done or what's going on? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439981 | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
On January 04 2014 17:54 Stratos wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439981 Thanks! | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On January 04 2014 15:45 Gamegene wrote: HOW MANY TIMES CAN SONIC SAVE BW? Anytime he wants  | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
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