When did the Hydra-Lurker-Defiler lategame comp vs terran became a thing in the top level ? To the point it seems like they prefer that comp over the ultra-ling-defiler comp I am used to seeing since forever
On June 17 2025 22:28 goody153 wrote: When did the Hydra-Lurker-Defiler lategame comp vs terran became a thing in the top level ? To the point it seems like they prefer that comp over the ultra-ling-defiler comp I am used to seeing since forever
I want to say it happened around late 2020 when Eclipse entered the map pool for a long time. Since the 3rd is easy to take but it's very hard to take a 4th, players started experimenting more with hydra/defiler. I remember when the map first came out players would mostly do crazy-zerg, but after a few months it seemed that hydra/defiler became norm.
Seems like pros still prefer ultras on standard 4player maps (where it's easy to take another main/nat as 3rd/4th), but not all the time. Not sure exactly what goes into decision-making for why players sometimes choose 1 or the other on those maps though.
On June 17 2025 22:28 goody153 wrote: When did the Hydra-Lurker-Defiler lategame comp vs terran became a thing in the top level ? To the point it seems like they prefer that comp over the ultra-ling-defiler comp I am used to seeing since forever
I want to say it happened around late 2020 when Eclipse entered the map pool for a long time. Since the 3rd is easy to take but it's very hard to take a 4th, players started experimenting more with hydra/defiler. I remember when the map first came out players would mostly do crazy-zerg, but after a few months it seemed that hydra/defiler became norm.
Seems like pros still prefer ultras on standard 4player maps (where it's easy to take another main/nat as 3rd/4th), but not all the time. Not sure exactly what goes into decision-making for why players sometimes choose 1 or the other on those maps though.
Interesting. I assume they started doing that cause they were looking for a less resource intensive lategame cause of the difficult 4th to get.
I'm surprised that it is now a legit lategame avenue. I thought it was just another niche strat
Same as when Jaedong entered a slump losing games vs Flash with hydra-lurker. It gives better staying power in the midgame although I'm still haunted by Jaedong just hanging outside his bridge, wandering left and right. Defilers are a done deal on top of it. However ultralings are like playing the ogre zerg. It is a very late build and you are wasting valuable resources if you use them midgame.
Back from like 2000-2006? I feel like TVT had a lot of goliath drop builds and mass dropship play. Sometimes you will still see big drop ship fleets but thats fallen off. Goliath drop openings seem to have fallen off even further. Could someone explain to me both why goliath drops arent as popular and why mass dropship play in tvt is less common? It feels like (not a terran player) a fast 1 base goliath dropship build would still be capable of doing a lot of damage, even if only at the lower levels.
edit: If I wanted to do an upgrade zergling attack in zvz, would it be more beneficial/viable to get +1 melee attack or carapace? I feel like ive always seen the zerg do melee attack in that scenario.