I knew Best was a macro god , but I have never ever saw smth similar ! OUTSTANDING MACRO ! BETTER THAN ANYONE !
PS: I hope this is the right thread to post this ^^
After watching the game I don't really know what you're so hyped about. Nothing against Best's macro, it's usually outstanding, but in this game he's strong for other reasons.
First of all, Flash "wastes" his first quick vulture (4.30 ingame-time) and as a result has no intel for the next few minutes. You can see that at 6.44 min (ingame-time) he is misjudging Best's two (only two!) goons at his natural, bringing two tanks and his rines into the main. He is probably expecting a drop that won't ever come, giving Best a free 3rd nexus. Flash could have just moved out with his tanks and pushed or at least secure his 3rd-base-location for free.
Macro-wise Best's supply is actually not that high, relatively speaking, at points like 12, 13, 14 minutes. From 14-15 minutes (ingame-time) his gate-count explodes like a Protoss' gate-count should.
What's impressive imo is how Best somehow manage to deal with Flash's constant midgame vulture- and dropship-aggression. He loses a few probes here and there, but he's everywhere defending, denying Flash any major success for his investments.
The only surprising thing is thus how late and weak (sloppily executed) Flash's doom-push is from 15.30 onwards. All the inefficient-harrass took it's toll, and if Terran loses this engagement it's over in most cases, Protoss always looks like a bad-ass macro-monster from thereon.
Best has good stasis in that engagement and nice flank. He beats down Flash's hastly move-out right again at 17.40
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I think I remember this game here as being impressive in terms of how Best plainly out-macroes Flash:
3 probes is an incredibly good trade for ur first vult...
flash is going 2 fac 3rd, moving tank/marine into the main at the reaver/dt drop timing is super standard play. u can't do anything else with that army anyway. his cc is started or about to start at that point
his vult harass does ok, he kills a lot of probes (the catch on the transfer to 4th was really big) and delays the 5th for a long time. u can't really freely macro if T is going into vult/dropship play
what lost him the game was the double stasis into losing all his tanks, it's almost impossible to come back from that. he pushes out again immediately because his last hope is to take 6 and split map. his push fails and he ggs out
On July 08 2018 00:30 Dead9 wrote: 3 probes is an incredibly good trade for ur first vult...
flash is going 2 fac 3rd, moving tank/marine into the main at the reaver/dt drop timing is super standard play. u can't do anything else with that army anyway. his cc is started or about to start at that point
his vult harass does ok, he kills a lot of probes (the catch on the transfer to 4th was really big) and delays the 5th for a long time. u can't really freely macro if T is going into vult/dropship play
what lost him the game was the double stasis into losing all his tanks, it's almost impossible to come back from that. he pushes out again immediately because his last hope is to take 6 and split map. his push fails and he ggs out
Is that a critic of my post/analysis? It seems to have that undertone. I don't see anything in your post that weakens/goes against any of my points.
I wrote "wasted" vulture in quotes for a reason, as it's not completely wasted, but very much so in one regard that is important for the outcome of this game though. I pointed out that he lost all intel for a while at that point which is a big thing, even if you kill 3 probes now. It's exactly what delayed his 3rd getting up even faster.
On his anti-shuttle-move: It's standard to move up the ramp - if you have no intel. If he had seen the 3rd, he wouldn't have done that, but used his tanks more agressively. He had 4 tanks + support-units against 3-4 goons, how can you "not do anything else" with that army? He could easily drive away any goon-force to grab his 3rd faster (without the engagement that he had to have a few minutes later on).
I never said Flash didn't do OK with his harrass - I said Best did a good job keeping on which is hard against Flash. It's impressive to watch Best's multitasking.
As I wrote, Flash engaged poorly, tanks clumped up, vults not in place. Gets 2 good stasises on his tanks -> lost.
yes i am critiquing your post/analysis. hes excited about a bw game and you're attacking flash's play for no reason. and on top of that your points are wrong. just let him enjoy the game man
if u think macro is just about big supply counts idk what to tell u. 2-1 near-max push vs a protoss just barely maxing out is pretty normal, flash/best were both playing well
Can't believe this could derail like that. What is wrong with you?
I watched the game carefully because his post made me curious, and I had a different opinion from what I saw and thought I could start a conversation...
All I tried to do is share some of my knowledge about the game, not put him down or anything. I hoped that he could understand better what happened, as Best didn't win this game by spectacular macro in particular. If I'm wrong about something, I accept any correction if i get reasons to do so. The thing with standard supply-numbers being warped sometimes was a great point e.g. but why hide it in a text that is full of "gtfo"?
I even looked up a game to give him a nice time watching a classic of the player he admires so much. edit: and the pictures I posted should have given you a hint that I'm no trying to put him down...
You just ignored everything I wrote as an answer to your post, put thoughts in my head that aren't there, and write down the most general of statements about BW gameplay as if they would say anything about my specific points.
WTF "attacking Flash". How was I saying anyone of these didn't play well or is super awesome in general? Flash messed up that engagement, so what? Can't I point out someones mistakes, is that impolite? Who're you to play their little defender here?
I knew Best was a macro god , but I have never ever saw smth similar ! OUTSTANDING MACRO ! BETTER THAN ANYONE !
PS: I hope this is the right thread to post this ^^
After watching the game I don't really know what you're so hyped about. Nothing against Best's macro, it's usually outstanding, but in this game he's strong for other reasons.
First of all, Flash "wastes" his first quick vulture (4.30 ingame-time) and as a result has no intel for the next few minutes. You can see that at 6.44 min (ingame-time) he is misjudging Best's two (only two!) goons at his natural, bringing two tanks and his rines into the main. He is probably expecting a drop that won't ever come, giving Best a free 3rd nexus. Flash could have just moved out with his tanks and pushed or at least secure his 3rd-base-location for free.
Macro-wise Best's supply is actually not that high, relatively speaking, at points like 12, 13, 14 minutes. From 14-15 minutes (ingame-time) his gate-count explodes like a Protoss' gate-count should.
What's impressive imo is how Best somehow manage to deal with Flash's constant midgame vulture- and dropship-aggression. He loses a few probes here and there, but he's everywhere defending, denying Flash any major success for his investments.
The only surprising thing is thus how late and weak (sloppily executed) Flash's doom-push is from 15.30 onwards. All the inefficient-harrass took it's toll, and if Terran loses this engagement it's over in most cases, Protoss always looks like a bad-ass macro-monster from thereon.
Best has good stasis in that engagement and nice flank. He beats down Flash's hastly move-out right again at 17.40
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I think I remember this game here as being impressive in terms of how Best plainly out-macroes Flash:
Don't remember specific ones in particular, but I'd guess most of Best's PvTs from that time or in the years before should be a macro fest. Just use TLPD and chose player Best vs race Terran.
you can press shift + return cargo hotkey instead of shift + right clicking the nexus -- easier way to get probes holding a mineral/gas to continue mining after building warp in
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/uHj0Kpm.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/LHPfga7.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/KlkTgka.jpg)
