I was playing 3v3 BGH on the Fish server. My wall-in failed there so I said "okay I won't be frustrated - I'll just invest time to figure out how to correctly wall here."
So I go to Liquipedia's BGH wall-in page (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Wall-Ins_(BGH) ) and I say to myself "alright! that crap won't happen again now that I know what I'm doing!"
For reference, here's what Liquipedia recommended:
So I go into my next game of 3v3bgh and I spawn at 6. So I say "okay... I got this." I take a moment to review the positioning of the wall and I do my best to construct it.
Just so you can compare my wall to what the liquipedia recommends:
Unfortunately, I soon realized that Liquipedia had seemingly trolled me:
I didn't even keep an SCV there just in case because I trusted the Liquipedia x_x
.. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how I messed up making this wall!
Did that Extractor there on the Vespene Geyser somehow allow the Zerglings to run-by the Barracks on the opposite side of the wall? I am so confused.
Actually I watched the rep and they did indeed run between the terrain and the left side of the barracks so its just a different map version. I do believe it is not ling tight between the gas/supply depot after the extractor is placed though as well.
u dont see that in the liquipedia one there is no space at the left side of the rax while in the bgh version there is a 1 hex space to the left side of the rax? because of this change the place slightly under the rax got changed as well, allowing lings to get in
extractor on gas has no influence on gaps around it, only refinery and assimilator change the gaps.
On May 14 2013 16:59 ]343[ wrote: I think your wall is shifted 1 square to the right (so the lings can get in through the left)
Right, that's what I thought at first, too..
But when I compare the pixels between the buildings between my wall and the Liquipedia's wall... I just can't see any difference. I'm stumped!
The Geyser seems lined up properly with the Supply Depot, and the Depot seems lined up with the Barracks. Ugh..
Could the map have been altered in that one spot so that Terrans couldn't wall? But I don't see any difference in the map tiles..
The liquipedia walls are correct. The vespene geyser on the map you played on is placed one square to the right so your entire wall was shifted to the right some allowing the lings to run in.
On May 14 2013 16:59 ]343[ wrote: I think your wall is shifted 1 square to the right (so the lings can get in through the left)
Right, that's what I thought at first, too..
But when I compare the pixels between the buildings between my wall and the Liquipedia's wall... I just can't see any difference. I'm stumped!
The Geyser seems lined up properly with the Supply Depot, and the Depot seems lined up with the Barracks. Ugh..
Could the map have been altered in that one spot so that Terrans couldn't wall? But I don't see any difference in the map tiles..
Hmm.. while the supply depot and geyser, and depot and barracks look lined up, the barracks and the wall definitely do not look lined up like liquipedia has it. If you look at the terrain just below the rax where the water cuts farthest in, the ground has kind of a circular shape on it. On liquipedia this circle lines up between the two (left side) foot pads of the rax, whereas in your screenshot it lines up to the left of all the foot pads.
On May 14 2013 17:11 Bakuryu wrote: u dont see that in the liquipedia one there is no space at the left side of the rax while in the bgh version there is a 1 hex space to the left side of the rax? because of this change the place slightly under the rax got changed as well, allowing lings to get in extractor on gas has no influence on gaps around it, only refinery and assimilator change the gaps.
tell that to effort who tried to do that to a terran on HBR or so, terran also thought it would change something which is why he pulled scvs. but nothing happened, everything was still tight.
when effort makes extractor, lings cant get through (u can see that after the 1 ling killed the scv "blocking" the path) when fantasy makes the refinery, lings can go through.
On May 14 2013 17:19 Bakuryu wrote: tell that to effort who tried to do that to a terran on HBR or so, terran also thought it would change something which is why he pulled scvs. but nothing happened, everything was still tight.
when effort makes extractor, lings cant get through (u can see that after the 1 ling killed the scv "blocking" the path) when fantasy makes the refinery, lings can go through.
This is what I mean. Compare how the vespene geyser lines up with the green terrain marking in each screenshot.
darn, I guess this is what I meant (though I might've gotten confused with the gas location heh)
building a extractor doesn't affect whether things can get through, whereas assimilators/refineries can block additional units (according to Liquipedia chart of "how far buildings jut out," which I'm pretty sure is correct)
This is what I mean. Compare how the vespene geyser lines up with the green terrain marking in each screenshot.
darn, I guess this is what I meant (though I might've gotten confused with the gas location heh)
building a extractor doesn't affect whether things can get through, whereas assimilators/refineries can block additional units (according to Liquipedia chart of "how far buildings jut out," which I'm pretty sure is correct)
What? Assimilators/refineries don't block additional units, they block less units. The chart isn't how far buildings jut out, it's how much smaller the building is compared to the box grid it sits on(add-ons do jut out towards their building by the amount that building is smaller on the right side though). For example: a refinery is narrower than a geyser by 8 pixels on the left side, so if a refinery is to the right of a building that is also smaller by at least 8 pixels on its right side(like a supply depot: 9 on the right), then it wouldn't be ling(16x16) tight, as there would be at least 16 combined pixels between the buildings. An assimilator is already narrower than the geyser by 16 pixels on the left, so lings will always be able to pass by the left side of an assimilator, Funnily enough, only zerg have any buildings that are exactly the same size as the box grid, the extractor and the nydus worm.
Even on the standard BGH map that wall is subject to the gas trick, which is actually well known in high level BGH games and it's interesting to see how people react to it.
On May 15 2013 06:11 2Pacalypse- wrote: Even on the standard BGH map that wall is subject to the gas trick, which is actually well known in high level BGH games and it's interesting to see how people react to it.
I think at the 6 o'clock position it only works with an assimilator, not refinery or extractor. So a Terran player will sometimes make the gas himself there and leave it unfinished and if he sees there's no danger of lings he'll just cancel it.
Other way is to keep 2 scvs there, one blocking the gap and other repairing him while marine shoots from the back. It's hard to control lings through that little gap because only 1 can attack at a time and rest will bug out.
Kidding, but really given that there are 28739 versions of BGH out there, this was sort of a no-brainer :/
Please don't blame us for anything, we're only human sentient beings with imperfect logical reasoning, we make mistakes too. If you find a mistake please just click edit and fix it.
Kidding, but really given that there are 28739 versions of BGH out there, this was sort of a no-brainer :/
Please don't blame us for anything, we're only human sentient beings with imperfect logical reasoning, we make mistakes too. If you find a mistake please just click edit and fix it.
since liquipedia is here, i'd like to ask why hotlinking images is not allowed.
So, a bunch of people were saying that my rax was just one square too far to the right.
Well, I tried it and the same thing happened. It was SCV, Marine, and Zealot safe... but it wasn't Ling safe.
After testing it with my SCVs and Marines I figured it would be ling safe... but NOPE!
x_x
Now the left of your wall is ling tight, but the middle isn't. Different version of the map is obviously different. From this picture and compare to the one in Liquipedia it's even more obvious.
So, a bunch of people were saying that my rax was just one square too far to the right.
Well, I tried it and the same thing happened. It was SCV, Marine, and Zealot safe... but it wasn't Ling safe.
After testing it with my SCVs and Marines I figured it would be ling safe... but NOPE!
x_x
Now the left of your wall is ling tight, but the middle isn't. Different version of the map is obviously different. From this picture and compare to the one in Liquipedia it's even more obvious.
Right - that's what I was talking about earlier when I told the other guy to look at how the rax and depot line up.
On May 14 2013 17:11 Bakuryu wrote: u dont see that in the liquipedia one there is no space at the left side of the rax while in the bgh version there is a 1 hex space to the left side of the rax? because of this change the place slightly under the rax got changed as well, allowing lings to get in
extractor on gas has no influence on gaps around it, only refinery and assimilator change the gaps.
On May 15 2013 17:25 rkffhk wrote: So, a bunch of people were saying that my rax was just one square too far to the right.
Well, I tried it and the same thing happened. It was SCV, Marine, and Zealot safe... but it wasn't Ling safe.
After testing it with my SCVs and Marines I figured it would be ling safe... but NOPE!
x_x
Everyone is saying that it ends up one square to the right because the choke is one square wider, it's that the map version is not the same as the liquipedia version, not that you screwed up the wall. As SnowFantasy pointed out, the green terrain markings show that in the version of the map you played, the extractor was moved one square to the right, making the liquipedia wall not work on this different version of the map(unless maybe if in that image the depot could also still be placed a square farther to the left and just have the corner touching the extractor possibly).
OP, don't feel frustrated because I can't wall to save my life and know all too well how annoying it is to let zerglings or even zealots through >< lol. Interesting to see how one small change can make such a big impact though.
On May 15 2013 22:42 2Pacalypse- wrote: Oh, I just noticed that this is The Hunters map, not Big Game Hunters. Liquipedia's wall-in screenshots are from BGH section ^^
Yeah - I just always thought, though, that the only difference between BGH and Hunters was just the $$$$$ aspect.
What Bakuryu said is correct. Building a gas makes it not ling tight because it is technically a different building size than the extractor. Why did you think he made the gas?
On May 16 2013 09:44 Grobyc wrote: What Bakuryu said is correct. Building a gas makes it not ling tight because it is technically a different building size than the extractor. Why did you think he made the gas?
Actually Bakuryu was saying the opposite, that although that works with assimilator/refinery, an extractor actually does nothing to the wall at all, the extractor actually is the exact same size as the geyser
On May 16 2013 09:44 Grobyc wrote: What Bakuryu said is correct. Building a gas makes it not ling tight because it is technically a different building size than the extractor. Why did you think he made the gas?
Actually Bakuryu was saying the opposite, that although that works with assimilator/refinery, an extractor actually does nothing to the wall at all, the extractor actually is the exact same size as the geyser
Ahhh nvm then, yeah I misread; that's hilarious haha.
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/thumb/3/34/Bghwallsmb0.jpg/600px-Bghwallsmb0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/16JRyzI.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PmdzGwY.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fpIF5AX.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/6/60/Bghassimilatortrickgif.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/u50DUGG.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uNjlZ8j.png?1)
