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This is a thread to finally settle what people think about this trick.
For those who don't know what this bug is, it's when you select one or more worker, tell it to mine an unused geyser, hold shift and order it to mine the geyser a few more times, then while still holding shift, finally order it to move anywhere. It will move as if mining, so it'll go through any units.
Variation: select more than one worker. For example, about 10, and then repeat the process, but instead of telling them to move, you tell them to attack the ground. They will remain stacked and attack anything in their path, and it can be pretty effective in tvz sometimes if underestimated.
On to the post, I'm mainly wondering if people thought this bug was fair? Some people think all bugs shouldn't be exploited, others thing there are exceptions.
For some games where I'm scouting with my worker and my opponent has blocked his ramp with a single worker, I use the trick. There's usually a gas in his natural so I just use that to get into his base. In total, I've done it about 10 times and none of them ever complained. Yet, I wonder if PGT is ok with this, because I can't seem to find what they thought about it on their site.
I don't use the variation because it's risky, but there are others who really think it's imbalanced, while I think it doesn't do much harm. Then again, a bug that creates balance isn't a good enough reason to use it to me. (Some people argue zvt is imbalanced and hold lurks balance it. Therefore, it should be allowed. In spite of that, it's still a bug. But to be honest, since accepted in most tournaments/ladders, I still use it because it's available).
Anyway, this post has gone on long enough, do you guys think it should be used? None of those PGT players complained, so I continued exploiting the bug when it's useful, but it's always stuck in the back of my head if it's fair.
(sorry if this post is hard to understand, typed it up fast)
edited unclear parts
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I used to abuse this and rush PvP 2gate 3-4 zea all probe rush, always worked.
I just did did it today to be able to scout and of course my opp was all like wtf.
Anyways, go play some games against computers. THEY DO IT. Computers AI don't need gaysers to the glitch but they do the same effect. Weird huh, someone whines u tell them u are just playing like a computer would.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
It's a bug and should not be used. I imagine it is illegal on both PGTour and WGTour.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On June 06 2006 21:01 RelaxedDarkXprT wrote:
I used to abuse this and rush PvP 2gate 3-4 zea all probe rush, always worked.
I just did did it today to be able to scout and of course my opp was all like wtf.
Anyways, go play some games against computers. THEY DO IT. Computers AI don't need gaysers to the glitch but they do the same effect. Weird huh, someone whines u tell them u are just playing like a computer would.
Computers also maphack, idiot...
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is awesome32275 Posts
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definately not legit.
it's okay if you can see like say his minerals or geyser and then do it
for example if you have an overlord overlooking his minerals and gas, if you tell your worker to mine it it'll go through some units
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On June 06 2006 21:35 Bill307 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2006 21:01 RelaxedDarkXprT wrote:
I used to abuse this and rush PvP 2gate 3-4 zea all probe rush, always worked.
I just did did it today to be able to scout and of course my opp was all like wtf.
Anyways, go play some games against computers. THEY DO IT. Computers AI don't need gaysers to the glitch but they do the same effect. Weird huh, someone whines u tell them u are just playing like a computer would. Computers also maphack, idiot...
ah yes, i forgot that part. O well...
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I used to also use this trick always, then when I played on PGT I found out the it was banned. I don't think even the variation is allowed like the ones me and you use. I once asked actually and they said any variation is not allowed, its still the same bug.
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i've always used this bug liberally to get past ramp-guards, and i will continue to do so (i've never used it on pgt)
it's no worse than tons of other bugs that are allowed in korean progaming
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It's illegal. I know this trick since maybe like 2 years and i'm not using it except sometimes against friends. You are lucky nobody complained about this to you yet on PGT, you get a penalty for using this bug.
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Yeah, I had no idea it was illegal. Not only did they didn't file complaints, but when I did it, they didn't even type "bm" or anything like that during the game. Also, doesn't eri know some way to do it without using this bug?
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I agree with Bill, it shouldn't be used.
I believe your ally forgottenfrog used it vs me when i was blocking my ramp with an scv, and i DID complain.
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Theres like 3 sliding techniques. Not sure what eri knows, but the basic 3 are:
1. RIght click on mineral, the basic one
2. Lift CC, gather a mineral then right click and straight after press "c" for return cargo
3. The one we're talking about ie via gas.
Maybe theres a 4th??
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On June 06 2006 23:53 Gandalf wrote:
I agree with Bill, it shouldn't be used.
I believe your ally forgottenfrog used it vs me when i was blocking my ramp with an scv, and i DID complain. Don't remember him doing it or you complaining. I don't know if he even does it, but I do. But even then, I don't remember you complaining (or playing you actually).
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On June 06 2006 22:51 a-game wrote:
i've always used this bug liberally to get past ramp-guards, and i will continue to do so (i've never used it on pgt)
it's no worse than tons of other bugs that are allowed in korean progaming
so what are the tons of bugs that are allowed in korean progaming?
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
On June 07 2006 00:12 FoBBish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2006 22:51 a-game wrote:
i've always used this bug liberally to get past ramp-guards, and i will continue to do so (i've never used it on pgt)
it's no worse than tons of other bugs that are allowed in korean progaming so what are the tons of bugs that are allowed in korean progaming?
I imagine just Hold Lurk and Hold Peon (same thing)...
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that and using a vulture-mine to shoe a vulture over a mineral patch, or using a probe-pylon to shoe a probe over a mineral patch or a terran wall, or using a barracks-landing to shoe a whole bunch of units over a mineral patch, or using the 2 drone trick to get over a mineral patch... these are all essentially things that allow you to get somewhere you shouldn't be able to and so i don't feel 1% of guilt using the gas trick being discussed here
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On June 07 2006 00:43 a-game wrote:
that and using a vulture-mine to shoe a vulture over a mineral patch, or using a probe-pylon to shoe a probe over a mineral patch or a terran wall, or using a barracks-landing to shoe a whole bunch of units over a mineral patch... these are all essentially things that allow you to get somewhere you shouldn't be able to and so i don't feel 1% of guilt using the gas trick being discussed here
don't forget DA/HT merge  and burrowlings, and worker sliding through minerals like on requiem
and just something small but i don't think vulture mines can send vults through minerals... only through pylons
On June 07 2006 00:03 skyglow1 wrote:
Theres like 3 sliding techniques. Not sure what eri knows, but the basic 3 are:
1. RIght click on mineral, the basic one
2. Lift CC, gather a mineral then right click and straight after press "c" for return cargo
3. The one we're talking about ie via gas.
Maybe theres a 4th??
i only know these three too ;O
are they all illegal?
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ya no kidding only listed %50 of them... where have people been living? in a hole?
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Show nested quote +On June 07 2006 00:03 skyglow1 wrote:
Theres like 3 sliding techniques. Not sure what eri knows, but the basic 3 are:
1. RIght click on mineral, the basic one
2. Lift CC, gather a mineral then right click and straight after press "c" for return cargo
3. The one we're talking about ie via gas.
Maybe theres a 4th?? i only know these three too ;O are they all illegal?
Why would the first one be illegal?
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So would the scvs still be stacked when they attack other duders?
If they do, then ROCK ON! That sounds great to be able to kill drones in one hit real fast and then just walk in and fuck them up, nearly untouched, but it just seems unfair.
I knew about the right click mineral. I never really used it. It just happened when I would get an expo, but I would never use it in scouting.
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why wouldnt it be allowed to use click on mineral for the worker to go to ther mineral.. just seems stupid..
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On June 07 2006 01:52 Aiur wrote:
why wouldnt it be allowed to use click on mineral for the worker to go to ther mineral.. just seems stupid..
pgt loves to ban random things
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pubs and friends are one thing, but tourneys and ladders are more serious.
lets pretend this trick was permitted.
so that means:
-worker move up guarded ramp.
OK
which is the exact same technique as
-12 stacked workers attacking
OK (can kill a nexus pretty damn fast)
same technique as using
-50 stacked workers attacking
OK (sure owned by lurkers, tanks or storm, but could kill buildings in a matter of seconds)
imagine all the new imbalance cheese that could result from this.
i thought it was obvious this should be illegal. >.<
also, it takes away the point of having mineral sight in a persons base, which is an EARNED reason for a scout to be able to pass through units.
rawr.
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On June 07 2006 02:03 Slowsu wrote:
which is the exact same technique as
-12 stacked workers attacking
OK (can kill a nexus pretty damn fast)
Are you joking? No fucking way that would work in a tourney. I've tried it numerous times and my scvs always die before nexus goes down, even vs pubbies. Dont even work vs the computer.
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On June 07 2006 01:58 superjoppe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2006 01:52 Aiur wrote:
why wouldnt it be allowed to use click on mineral for the worker to go to ther mineral.. just seems stupid.. pgt loves to ban random things
there seems to be some misunderstanding
pgt bans a gay bug, not clicking on minerals..
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On June 07 2006 03:20 8882 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2006 01:58 superjoppe wrote:On June 07 2006 01:52 Aiur wrote:
why wouldnt it be allowed to use click on mineral for the worker to go to ther mineral.. just seems stupid.. pgt loves to ban random things there seems to be some misunderstanding pgt bans a gay bug, not clicking on minerals..
I thought it was meantioned that u arent allowed to do like this : scout with scv in opponent base. make vision of the mineral and click on it with a scv from ur base. now move back with the scouting scv and the scv that u told go to his minerals will go thrue any unit block at the ramp.. if that is banned all kinds of use to click on minerals for example cloning ur scvs to kill lings when they rush is banned to right -_- and click on ur mineral patch to make your scv safily return to ur home sliding thrue the workers at his base. ya lets ban it all..
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Many peons attacking stacked doesn't even do anything. All you need is one unit to get close to the stacked peons and lure it somewhere. They can't stop following your one unit without breaking the stack. But if they had vis of your Nexus and ordered actual "attack" command it would be funny -.-...
Issue here is the scouting ability, not the stacked rush.
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Is this allowed in Korean leagues?
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
its Not allowed in korean leagues.
its also not allowed at pgtour.
i knew it very early, and i was using it at pgtour, but when i've read that its illegal, i stopped.
when someone is doing this to you (you must be sure that he doesnt see a mineral and gas in ur main) you should immediately leave the game and make complaint.
when you would play this game until end, admins will not cancel it ;o
i remember when obsing veg (?) about 2 years ago, he used it in tvz, killed pool pretty fast and won :O.
so its pretty old -_-;
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 07 2006 02:11 superjoppe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2006 02:03 Slowsu wrote:
which is the exact same technique as
-12 stacked workers attacking
OK (can kill a nexus pretty damn fast)
Are you joking? No fucking way that would work in a tourney. I've tried it numerous times and my scvs always die before nexus goes down, even vs pubbies. Dont even work vs the computer.
Try doing your typical fast tech PvT build against this and watch your nexus get owned by 12 scv's + a couple rines
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
.... and see your scvs and rines got killed by 1-2 goons / + 1 zeal and ~16 probes and then counter vs ur 2-5 scvs who stayed at main :S
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besides the fact i cant seem to do this vs. the computer, how does this help you with scouting? also, what does mining from their mins (as skyglow1 mentioned) actually do? could someone please explain. thx.
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On June 07 2006 06:44 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2006 02:11 superjoppe wrote:On June 07 2006 02:03 Slowsu wrote:
which is the exact same technique as
-12 stacked workers attacking
OK (can kill a nexus pretty damn fast)
Are you joking? No fucking way that would work in a tourney. I've tried it numerous times and my scvs always die before nexus goes down, even vs pubbies. Dont even work vs the computer. Try doing your typical fast tech PvT build against this and watch your nexus get owned by 12 scv's + a couple rines
Have you tried this or are you just making up things?
Yes, I've tried it. It failed. Just as when you try it vs computer. Just use all your workers and a goon if you have, and its gg. There's better rushes to choose from.
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On June 06 2006 21:42 IntoTheWow wrote:
Not cool.
true.dat
You can use it, but just to spot a rush, or to defend yourself, Like people always do, but that way is like nono, no manner and very very stupid.
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glitches are gay, WCG makes the major ones like turret jamming illegal.
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On June 07 2006 10:52 caloriecount wrote:
glitches are gay, WCG makes the major ones like turret jamming illegal.
Was wondering why i never saw any pimp plays with that =D
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 07 2006 07:14 superjoppe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2006 06:44 GrandInquisitor wrote:On June 07 2006 02:11 superjoppe wrote:On June 07 2006 02:03 Slowsu wrote:
which is the exact same technique as
-12 stacked workers attacking
OK (can kill a nexus pretty damn fast)
Are you joking? No fucking way that would work in a tourney. I've tried it numerous times and my scvs always die before nexus goes down, even vs pubbies. Dont even work vs the computer. Try doing your typical fast tech PvT build against this and watch your nexus get owned by 12 scv's + a couple rines Have you tried this or are you just making up things? Yes, I've tried it. It failed. Just as when you try it vs computer. Just use all your workers and a goon if you have, and its gg. There's better rushes to choose from.
All I remember is me losing it to it once with several of the scv's still alive =\
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Hold lurk aint a bug? Its a part of the game, u press "STOP" on lurker, whats the fucking bug with that?
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Unfortunately, that's not what hold lurker means. That's just button pressing. We're talking about using the AI in a way that wasn't forseen by the programmers. And nowdays, with the software to check what commands were used, it's not too hard to distinguish between the two.
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The only real problem I see in worker stack is that you can see tech by ramp slide, and it stops rushes. Honestly, losing to a cheese with this kind of trick is due to a lack of scouting especially if you are zerg and I dont' think it'd be a problem so long as you stack attack back. But it is banned for its gayness.
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what's turret jamming?
one time a toss player placed his observer right on top of my turret and my turret wouldnt shoot it, is that it?
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yes it is. Just hit stop multiple times on your turret and it will shoot at the observer
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EPT
