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On November 15 2012 09:23 Modesty00 wrote:Show nested quote +Just because my factory produces hammers..doesn't mean I own the houses that are built with the hammers You dont own the houses, but you own the hammers. And when workers are using your hammer and broadcast to entire world to see them and make money of it, then i bet you will ask for license, becouse your brand is showing to the world without you permission in the way you may not like... lets say like bad hammers...
I don't think a company is entitled to money just because someone said their hammers sucked.
It's like you are buying a movie to watch for youself... you invive a friens to share the movie.. ok thats ok.. but when you share the movie online with the world and make money of it... yeap you need permission or licence...
That's true for movies. But that's not quite what a video game is. When you stream yourself playing a video game, or you stream a video game tournament, you're not copying the game. The stream doesn't let other people play the video game without paying the company that made it. Rather, if people like what they see, they might go out and buy the game.
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I honestly feel like I am getting toyed with again and again. The first time I saw Blizzard shit on BW I was honestly shocked, it took some time for it to settle in. After nearly two years of bullshit from Blizzard you think I would have learned to just expect them to do everything in their power to destroy any glimmer of hope for a growing BW community. I feel like I keep getting taught a lesson and each time I am still surprised by the result. Congratulations Blizzard, you have made a fool out of me.
I would somewhat understand if Kespa or some equivalent was fighting against Blizzard for broadcasting rights, but this is a SINGLE PERSON trying to host a tournament from his own earnings. I'm not sure who is managing Blizzard's IP rights in Korea, but they are seriously heartless and unreasonable.
I understand Blizzard has the right to ask for royalties whenever a tournament is hosted, but there is no reason to do it for such a small tournament.
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On November 15 2012 09:22 mrtomjones wrote:
Uhh you make terrible arguments dude. A FREE game is more popular than SC2. No kidding? Then you contradict yourself. Earlier you said:
"If they don't and no one else does then there will never be a reason for anyone to want to design games around ESports ideals." You are in essence saying producers won't make great and popular games if they can't charge money for tournaments....along comes LOL and there goes your argument....
Poker and cards is a completely different thing. If you wish to play Sc2 you have ONE choice as to where to play it. If you wish to play Poker you can find any number of card's or tables to play it on. You could even make your own without much difficulty. Not very comparable. The cards wouldn't be copyrighted but their backgrounds would certainly be. Question remains...does that create liability. My point remains that it is common and relevant that derivative works exist in our modern capitalist society. You can perhaps make a 'where do you draw the line' argument, but not a 'derivative works shouldn't exist' argument
The end point comes down to a simple idea. You do not own Starcraft. You pay for the right to play it which can be taken away. A simplistic viewpoint and corporate cliche. You make it sound as if IP users have no legal rights to their products and which is patently false. When you pay money for copyrighted material, you as the consumer have the rights to certain expectations for the legal consideration you paid to acquire the product.
You don't own Microsoft Office. I believe this is fairly standard among most computer related ideas. Indeed I don't...I use LibreOffice and google docs 
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On November 15 2012 09:27 )Messer( wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 20:32 )Messer( wrote:
quick question. How much does this license cost?
According to TotalBiscuit when talking about his Shoutcraft Invitational, it is based on a percentage of ad revenue.
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On November 15 2012 07:29 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 03:36 Sumadin wrote:
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing. SC2 user coming to the BW forum to tell us to put down the pitchforks? Is it reverse day today?
I'm not going to go digging through is his posting history, but there are sc2 users who go into sc2 rage fests to tell them to calm down as well, so he could be one of those.
I am pissed as well, but attacking a user for his forum of choice isn't really the best way to do it.
If Mohaime or what ever his name is gets it set up so this can go through, I will take back some of the things I said about him the osl team speak.
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I hope lol kills sc2, just because i hate blizzard so much.
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If they relocate to China they cannot get bullied by Blizzard. I wonder what ridiculous sum they must pay for license fees.
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On November 15 2012 09:22 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:11 Fungal Growth wrote:On November 15 2012 09:00 mrtomjones wrote:
They made the game and have the rights to the game. Just because my factory produces hammers..doesn't mean I own the houses that are built with the hammers. In the US there is a legal principal known as derivative works. It says that you can include copyrighted material in your own work as long as it is distinct and derived which competitions clearly are. Competitions are not games. Blizzard sold a game, not a competition. I mean using your logic, where do you drawn the line? Say there is a pro-poker tournament...and the players use acme cards. Can/should acme sue just because their cards were used in the tournament? When you buy a game you buy the right to play it. Blizzard still owns it. So why should they not take revenue from someone else making money off their property? You can't use terms like 'own' and control with intellectual property...it's completely different from tangible property and has a completely different rule-set. If they don't and no one else does then there will never be a reason for anyone to want to design games around ESports ideals. And yet a free game in League of Legends is more popular than SC2...so there goes the incentive argument. There are different monetization strategies for game producers. In-game ads, feature up-sells, and even god-forbid...just making money off the DVD sales which we KNOW is substantial and is a tried and true breadwinner for video game producers over the years. Leaching streaming revenue is just pure greed from the industry and nothing more. Uhh you make terrible arguments dude. A FREE game is more popular than SC2. No kidding? Poker and cards is a completely different thing. If you wish to play Sc2 you have ONE choice as to where to play it. If you wish to play Poker you can find any number of card's or tables to play it on. You could even make your own without much difficulty. Not very comparable. The end point comes down to a simple idea. You do not own Starcraft. You pay for the right to play it which can be taken away. I only scanned the start of this article but it is fairly similar I THINK. http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireless/articles/20111209/08380617021/microsoft-reminds-everyone-you-do-not-own-your-software.shtmlYou don't own Microsoft Office. I believe this is fairly standard among most computer related ideas.
And all of your arguments regarding IP rights have been thoroughly addressed during the lawsuit threads years ago. Go do some reading.
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Also
It's only ever bad news in the BW forum now.
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+ Show Spoiler +
이번 결승전 사태에 있어. 미숙했던 대회운영에 대해서 다시 한번 사과드리구요.
마크 모하임 사장님에게 다시 한번 감사드립니다.ㅠㅠ
팀리퀴드 스타1 팬분들들 및 우리 시청자분들. 이런일이 터지고 나서 저한테 조언 해주셧던 모든 분들에게 감사의 말씀 드리겠습니다)
8차 라이센스까지 딸수 있을것 같고 모든게 술술 잘 풀릴것 같습니다.
현재 대관취소로 인해. 다시 알아보고 있구. 취소 되었던 부분들..하나씩 다시 이야기 하고 있는 중입니다.
정확한 일정은 오늘 공지를 통해 말씀 드리겠습니다.ㅠㅠ
블리자드 코리아에서 결승 잘하라고 연락 받았구. 마크모하임 사장님께서 저렇게 트위터까지 남긴거보니. 아직 스타1 팬들과 함께 할수 있는게 너무 많은것 같습니다.
정말 말도 안되는 이례적인 일이라고 하시더라구요.
말도 안되는 이례적인 일들을 우리가 해내고 있는 부분이니. 미숙한 대회 진행 안하고. 제대로 된 진행해서 다시 달려보시죠!!!!!!!!!!! ^^
뭔가 이 드라마 같은 상황속에 저도 막 손이 떨릴 정도로 기쁩니다!
Regarding the situation with the finals, I apologize for my lack of experience in handling this matter.
I would like to thank CEO Mike Morhaime once again. T_T
Teamliquid's brood war fans and afreeca viewers, thank you for the good advice and suggestions you gave me as I was going about trying to fix this issue.
I will most likely be able to obtain a license for the 8th SSL and everything will run smooth from here on.
Regarding the cancellation of the location and the cancellation of the guests that were to appear, I am taking care of the situation one by one.
Details will be posted on my afreeca page T_T.
Blizzard Korea has contacted us saying we have the OK to run the finals and Mike Morhaime himself cared enough to leave a tweet. It makes me believe there are still so many things we (Sonic and BW fans) can accomplish together.
We are pioneering something so unprecedented, so I will learn from my mistakes (of being inexperience in this matter) and carry out the finals as smoothly and orderly as possible!!!!!!!!!!! ^^
It feels like a scene from a drama, my hands feel like they are shaking from happiness!
again very rough translation..
edit: i also forgot to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *pours beer on pusan head* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D
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Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence.
-John Locke
I didn't mind paying blizzard money when it seemed that their goal included helping the community.
I defended blizzard to a point with their IP rights fight against Kespa.
We are the people that support the company, this is not THAT different from a government system. We follow blizzard's rule, and pay blizzard for their services (in this case their product). Blizzard pays it's employers, but that is also investment back into their products. But if blizzard reduces the BW community to "slavery under arbitrary power" I will no longer support blizzard in anyways. This does not help the community.
I will not trash blizzard, since Mike Morhaime at least, seems to not hurt the community for no reason, and he is still influential enough to stop certain absurd tyranny. But that is not good enough, at least not for me. Trying to not hurt the community is not the same as trying to make the community thrive.
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Canada8032 Posts
On November 15 2012 11:50 JohnChoi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
이번 결승전 사태에 있어. 미숙했던 대회운영에 대해서 다시 한번 사과드리구요.
마크 모하임 사장님에게 다시 한번 감사드립니다.ㅠㅠ
팀리퀴드 스타1 팬분들들 및 우리 시청자분들. 이런일이 터지고 나서 저한테 조언 해주셧던 모든 분들에게 감사의 말씀 드리겠습니다)
8차 라이센스까지 딸수 있을것 같고 모든게 술술 잘 풀릴것 같습니다.
현재 대관취소로 인해. 다시 알아보고 있구. 취소 되었던 부분들..하나씩 다시 이야기 하고 있는 중입니다.
정확한 일정은 오늘 공지를 통해 말씀 드리겠습니다.ㅠㅠ
블리자드 코리아에서 결승 잘하라고 연락 받았구. 마크모하임 사장님께서 저렇게 트위터까지 남긴거보니. 아직 스타1 팬들과 함께 할수 있는게 너무 많은것 같습니다.
정말 말도 안되는 이례적인 일이라고 하시더라구요.
말도 안되는 이례적인 일들을 우리가 해내고 있는 부분이니. 미숙한 대회 진행 안하고. 제대로 된 진행해서 다시 달려보시죠!!!!!!!!!!! ^^
뭔가 이 드라마 같은 상황속에 저도 막 손이 떨릴 정도로 기쁩니다!
Regarding the situation with the finals, I apologize for my lack of experience in handling this matter. I would like to thank CEO Mike Morhaime once again. T_T Teamliquid's brood war fans and afreeca viewers, thank you for the good advice and suggestions you gave me as I was going about trying to fix this issue. I will most likely be able to obtain a license for the 8th SSL and everything will run smooth from here on. Regarding the cancellation of the location and the cancellation of the guests that were to appear, I am taking care of the situation one by one. Details will be posted on my afreeca page T_T. Blizzard Korea has contacted us saying we have the OK to run the finals and Mike Morhaime himself cared enough to leave a tweet. It makes me believe there are still so many things we (Sonic and BW fans) can accomplish together. We are pioneering something so unprecedented, so I will learn from my mistakes (of being inexperience in this matter) and carry out the finals as smoothly and orderly as possible!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ It feels like a scene from a drama, my hands feel like they are shaking from happiness! again very rough translation.. edit: i also forgot to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *pours beer on pusan head* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D
Great news! Thanks for the translation.
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
After this roller-coaster of the thread, I'll take my small blessings!
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
On November 15 2012 11:50 JohnChoi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
이번 결승전 사태에 있어. 미숙했던 대회운영에 대해서 다시 한번 사과드리구요.
마크 모하임 사장님에게 다시 한번 감사드립니다.ㅠㅠ
팀리퀴드 스타1 팬분들들 및 우리 시청자분들. 이런일이 터지고 나서 저한테 조언 해주셧던 모든 분들에게 감사의 말씀 드리겠습니다)
8차 라이센스까지 딸수 있을것 같고 모든게 술술 잘 풀릴것 같습니다.
현재 대관취소로 인해. 다시 알아보고 있구. 취소 되었던 부분들..하나씩 다시 이야기 하고 있는 중입니다.
정확한 일정은 오늘 공지를 통해 말씀 드리겠습니다.ㅠㅠ
블리자드 코리아에서 결승 잘하라고 연락 받았구. 마크모하임 사장님께서 저렇게 트위터까지 남긴거보니. 아직 스타1 팬들과 함께 할수 있는게 너무 많은것 같습니다.
정말 말도 안되는 이례적인 일이라고 하시더라구요.
말도 안되는 이례적인 일들을 우리가 해내고 있는 부분이니. 미숙한 대회 진행 안하고. 제대로 된 진행해서 다시 달려보시죠!!!!!!!!!!! ^^
뭔가 이 드라마 같은 상황속에 저도 막 손이 떨릴 정도로 기쁩니다!
Regarding the situation with the finals, I apologize for my lack of experience in handling this matter. I would like to thank CEO Mike Morhaime once again. T_T Teamliquid's brood war fans and afreeca viewers, thank you for the good advice and suggestions you gave me as I was going about trying to fix this issue. I will most likely be able to obtain a license for the 8th SSL and everything will run smooth from here on. Regarding the cancellation of the location and the cancellation of the guests that were to appear, I am taking care of the situation one by one. Details will be posted on my afreeca page T_T. Blizzard Korea has contacted us saying we have the OK to run the finals and Mike Morhaime himself cared enough to leave a tweet. It makes me believe there are still so many things we (Sonic and BW fans) can accomplish together. We are pioneering something so unprecedented, so I will learn from my mistakes (of being inexperience in this matter) and carry out the finals as smoothly and orderly as possible!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ It feels like a scene from a drama, my hands feel like they are shaking from happiness! again very rough translation.. edit: i also forgot to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *pours beer on pusan head* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
lol MDJ, this came right after your post.
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Glad this worked out ok.
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I hope Kim Carrier can still cast the finals. It's still an awful shame what happened... but at least the Sonic was able to jump through whatever necessary hoops and carry on.
Also WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Canada5155 Posts
I've been really busy for the past few days.
W...what did I miss?
*walks out of the thread*
I leave you guys alone for a few days and THIS is what I come back to? Good god!
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Dear condescending BW bashers in this thread,
Our "bitching" helped to accomplish something that we consider a pretty big victory.
Fuck you and your holier than thou attitude.
Regards, satisfied BW fan.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
