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My ranking:
1.  Flash
2.  Stork (he looks solid with wins over Bisu and  ZerO)
3. Stats (he would be number 2 if he wasn't the only P that Sea beat)
4. BeSt (he lost to the OSL champ, but he did manage to show that he can beat one of the best PvP'ers out there)
5. Jaedong (his ZvP looks a little shaky though, with losses to BeSt and Snow)
6. BaBy (his lone loss came against Last who has shown himself to be a TvT sniper)
7. Fantasy (same story as BaBy but I feel BaBy's opponents have been higher caliber)
8. EffOrt (started off strong with going 3-0 with a win over the OSL champ, since then his only win came against Tyson)
9. Last (TvT sniper pulling off impressive wins over BaBy and Fantasy, he has yet to play anything else though)
10. Hydra (I wanted to put Neo.G_Soulkey here but since he didn't win vs Hydra, I have to place Hydra ahead)
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I don't see how Effort deserves a spot, but Hydra or Soulkey don't? ( or even Bisu for that matter)
not in regards to anyone specific
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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On January 03 2012 06:40 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 06:10 ffreakk wrote:
Fast 3 Base vs Blind 5-Fac are all solid BO disadvantage Going fast 3 base is just as blind as 5-facing is, the way you worded this shows bisu bias without me even having to look at your icon 
I am not sure what you are implying. 12-Hatch vs 9-Pool Speed, do both players do it blind? Yet it's still considered BO disadvantage (a 80% guaranteed loss, even, from what i know). So both players did their build w/o scouting information and 1 happens to hard-counter the other, i called that a BO disadvantage. Why does it showcase my bias? Unless you look at my Icon, went "Lololol Bisu fanboy" and typed what you did?
On January 03 2012 13:12 InTheFade wrote:There are very few true build order losses in the game of broodwar. There are many BO advantages, but losses? So saying Bisu had three (stretching the bounds of logic as well) of such varieties is completely idiotic. You're indirectly suggesting that Bisu doesn't have the chops to come back from disadvantageous circumstances, aren't you Build order loss is an uneducated term that is now thrown around these forums more than "bonjwa" and "cheese."
If you would read a sentence further into my post, i explained them as solid BO disadvantages.
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On January 03 2012 14:33 flamewheel wrote:
OKAY EIGHTY PERCENT DONE
Good job =)
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On January 03 2012 14:33 flamewheel wrote:
OKAY EIGHTY PERCENT DONE
Can't wait!
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On January 03 2012 14:33 flamewheel wrote:
OKAY EIGHTY PERCENT DONE
Im totally expecting your next post to say 95% done! but I have to take the dog for a walk and I have to go the DMV to get my license renewed, I'll finish up tomorrow! 
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Last one then CBNC. Yay I should finish before the start of round 2... barely.
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51247 Posts
On January 03 2012 15:57 flamewheel wrote:
bm knoa
I want PR now!
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On January 03 2012 14:42 ffreakk wrote:
I am not sure what you are implying. 12-Hatch vs 9-Pool Speed, do both players do it blind? Yet it's still considered BO disadvantage (a 80% guaranteed loss, even, from what i know). So both players did their build w/o scouting information and 1 happens to hard-counter the other, i called that a BO disadvantage. Why does it showcase my bias? Unless you look at my Icon, went "Lololol Bisu fanboy" and typed what you did?
Both players have a lot more information at the "fast third" and "5fac timing push" stage, compared to the "12 hatch" and "9 pool speed" stage, so yes, while those are also "blind" everything is blind at that level.
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United States23455 Posts
I've seen the PR.
Good stuff.
Good stuff.
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On January 03 2012 16:15 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 14:42 ffreakk wrote:
I am not sure what you are implying. 12-Hatch vs 9-Pool Speed, do both players do it blind? Yet it's still considered BO disadvantage (a 80% guaranteed loss, even, from what i know). So both players did their build w/o scouting information and 1 happens to hard-counter the other, i called that a BO disadvantage. Why does it showcase my bias? Unless you look at my Icon, went "Lololol Bisu fanboy" and typed what you did? Both players have a lot more information at the "fast third" and "5fac timing push" stage, compared to the "12 hatch" and "9 pool speed" stage, so yes, while those are also "blind" everything is blind at that level.
People like to use the word "blind" to diminish the value a win from a player who picked a strategy that counters another strategy (see: kiante v puppykiller grudgematch). Appending the word "blind" to Bogus's strategy but not to Bisu's when they had similar amounts of information when choosing to do what they did is a form of bias. Bogus's choice of strategy was just as blind as Bisu's, but Bogus had the advantage. If Bogus had gone for a safe third Bisu would have taken the advantage with a "blind" fast 3rd. Even if you didn't consciously mean it that way (I doubt you did), the way your sentence is structured is the result of bias.
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On January 03 2012 16:15 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 14:42 ffreakk wrote:
I am not sure what you are implying. 12-Hatch vs 9-Pool Speed, do both players do it blind? Yet it's still considered BO disadvantage (a 80% guaranteed loss, even, from what i know). So both players did their build w/o scouting information and 1 happens to hard-counter the other, i called that a BO disadvantage. Why does it showcase my bias? Unless you look at my Icon, went "Lololol Bisu fanboy" and typed what you did? Both players have a lot more information at the "fast third" and "5fac timing push" stage, compared to the "12 hatch" and "9 pool speed" stage, so yes, while those are also "blind" everything is blind at that level.
I assumed you have watched the game. Maybe i missed it, so would you tell me what information Bogus had when he plopped down his 5 Fac? And what information did Bisu get when he decided to go for the fast 3rd?
@xxpack
If Bogus had scouted the fast 3rd, it would not be a "BO disadvantage" but a counter.
I only append the word "Blind" to Bogus build because he was the one that happened to counter his opponent, something that usually require scouting information.
But perhaps you just like to argue. Since i don't remember a single piece of fact brought up by you in the last few pages, only unhealthy criticism in order to bring down other posters. At least "people" like me bothered to discuss the actual game, at the same time admit to possible fanboyism.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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United States7639 Posts
YAY! flamewheel ftw :D
I'm hoping this will get frontpaged of course? Not enough people check the features or this thread to be able to see it ;;
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
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On January 03 2012 16:21 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 16:15 Turbovolver wrote:On January 03 2012 14:42 ffreakk wrote:
I am not sure what you are implying. 12-Hatch vs 9-Pool Speed, do both players do it blind? Yet it's still considered BO disadvantage (a 80% guaranteed loss, even, from what i know). So both players did their build w/o scouting information and 1 happens to hard-counter the other, i called that a BO disadvantage. Why does it showcase my bias? Unless you look at my Icon, went "Lololol Bisu fanboy" and typed what you did? Both players have a lot more information at the "fast third" and "5fac timing push" stage, compared to the "12 hatch" and "9 pool speed" stage, so yes, while those are also "blind" everything is blind at that level. People like to use the word "blind" to diminish the value a win from a player who picked a strategy that counters another strategy (see: kiante v puppykiller grudgematch). Appending the word "blind" to Bogus's strategy but not to Bisu's when they had similar amounts of information when choosing to do what they did is a form of bias. Bogus's choice of strategy was just as blind as Bisu's, but Bogus had the advantage. If Bogus had gone for a safe third Bisu would have taken the advantage with a "blind" fast 3rd. Even if you didn't consciously mean it that way (I doubt you did), the way your sentence is structured is the result of bias.
Err no.
Bisu's build was disadvantageous and so it's implied it's blind. Why would you deliberately choose a weak build?
Bogus' build was advantageous and so it is not clear whether this is due to good scouting and decision making or luck, appending "blind" to the description clarifies this.
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EPT
