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...has a chance to win(Ace notwithstanding).
One thing I'm pumped about the upcoming season is that I think we truly have competitive balance. Every team but Ace has a shot to win it all. I think there may be more paper-rock-scissors in terms of good and bad MUs, and that even playoff positioning will come down to the wire. No more SKT1 vs Estro beatdowns everyone can see coming from a mile away. Every match has the chance to be very competitive. In that sense, I'm kind of glad of the contraction.
Side thoughts on how the new format may change things.
1. Beesuit may finally have time to prepare for the OSL. Last season, Bisu probably had to prepare for 4+ games each week. 2 regular matches, 2 potential ace matches, and both MSL and OSL matches. This season, he'll have 1.5 games per week and only the OSL.
The only thing left is for Bisu to not meet a mediocre zerg on his path to the OSL. May the BW gods bless him on that.
2. Preparation may be less of an issue. It used to be teams have to deal with players preparing for SL matches during the PL season. That obligation has been cut down dramatically. Plus no ace matches mean even the best player only needs to practice for one map. Overall, teams like SKT1 which out-prepare their opponents may not have such an advantage anymore. While the Stork-led Samsung Cellphone Players may be able to play phone games, watch anime, and still have time to prepare for matches.
3. Deeper rosters may result in more mirrors. An unfortunate problem with contraction. Teams with more depth at each race isn't a good thing. As now teams are fully capable of just sending the race that benefits most from map imbalance. This may disappear as the season goes on, but at the start we may see a lot of mirrors.
4. And finally, Samsung Khan is going to win the proleague. The stars are aligned. No true ace? Not necessary in the new format. Lackadaisical team atmosphere? No more need for 24/7 preparation. Zerg killing us? We now have 2 solid zergs and a new coach that actually knows about zergs. The Stars are aligned for Samsung Khan to win the Proleague Championship. BELIEVE!
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Uhhh STX looks pretty weak, especially compared to how stacked the other teams are. I'd be very surprised if the scores were any more even than in previous seasons.
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Man shine isnt as bad as people say he is
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Yeah, and finally fewer playoff seeds, top-heavy teams, and ACE youngsters somehow improving after joining the military will make this season more tense.
However, STX will finish last. They will under-perform once again, save for  Bogus. In fact, they've been doing poorly for so long it may be that they are just a bad team now. Modesty can only ZvZ. Calm hit his peak in '09 and only does well in starleagues. Kal peaked long ago, though he certainly still has the talent. Who else is left... Frozen? Hyvaa? Classic? Shit's rough.
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On November 18 2011 15:53 FreezerJumps wrote:
Uhhh STX looks pretty weak, especially compared to how stacked the other teams are. I'd be very surprised if the scores were any more even than in previous seasons.
Certainly STX looks relatively weak on paper, but they have some quality players and should still have a fighting chance in every match. Outside of last year (where every team, including ACE, wasn't that far behind the last playoff spot, previous PL seasons have had some teams who were obviously not competitive ( http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/heyoka/0910/standing.png , http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/heyoka/R4Stand.png ).
Some teams definitely look stronger on paper (especially given the new format) but I really think that in this coming season any given match (not involving ACE) could go either way, and that's awesome.
edit: though I do think that STX will do poorly (my best guess is Bogus keeps up his strong showing, some other random player starts playing decently, but the rest of the team plays like STX usually plays)
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I can't believe a fellow KHAN fan can even write this thread. I like Samsung KHAN but I don't and cannot believe. An in-form Stork is scarier than anything except an in-form Flash (and probably equal to death-stare Jaedong) but Stork has been in-form maybe once or twice in the last two years. The last time Jangbi did well in a Starleague, he slumped for two years after that. We don't even have fbh manner ceremonies anymore.
I think ACE, STX and KHAN are around the same level, with Woongjin a little stronger.
Predictions for regular season play (play-offs depend on form and preparation, not consistency):
1. KeSPA team8
2. KT Rolster
3. CJ Entus
4. SKT T1
5. Woongjin Stars
6. Airforce ACE (no WL this season right?)
7/8. Samsung KHAN
8/7. STX SouL
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On November 18 2011 15:45 baubo wrote:
3. Deeper rosters may result in more mirrors. An unfortunate problem with contraction. Teams with more depth at each race isn't a good thing. As now teams are fully capable of just sending the race that benefits most from map imbalance. This may disappear as the season goes on, but at the start we may see a lot of mirrors.
Remember when teams had to play each race in a Proleague match? Maybe they'll bring back that rule? Granted, we could still potentially see three mirros in a row but it would at least force diversity of the races.
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I definitely agree, especially with the new format Bo5 no ace.
We could have expected a big 4 dominating the other teams (CJ/SKT/KT/Team 8), but Samsung will definitely do well, January can't troll everyone anymore by sending Juni as ace. Woongjin Stars can be really strong with ZerO / SoulKey / Light.
The new format will also help ACE a lot (no very strong ace player, not a very deep team) and I can definitely see a line up of Iris, FBH, ggaemo, Kal, M18M do pretty well.
STX was not doing well last year, even if they put up a great fight against KT during the playoffs. Bogus showed consistency and became the new ace player, but Kal's slump kept dragging the team down. Now that Kal is gone, the team can have a brand new mindset and gain momentum again. I'm not sure how the announce that STX was willing to trade its whole roster impacted the players motivation though. That might be a pretty horrible thing to hear.
Anyway, except Ground Zero, I love the new map pool, and I'm really looking forward to watching some PL !
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Why would mirror matchups disappear as the season goes on?
How serious are map imbalances on proleague maps?
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I think Flash might finally get 100% win rate. Dead serious. With 4+ games to practice for each week, it was like 80%. With less than half that, he's going to be completely dominant.
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On November 18 2011 16:35 rplant wrote:
Why would mirror matchups disappear as the season goes on?
How serious are map imbalances on proleague maps?
Because as seasons go on, teams can use snipers to snipe partiular races, i.e. put Best or Stork on a T map, put Jaedong on a non-Z map, etc. But in the beginning, I think teams will just play it safe and put players on the maps they feel most confident in.
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I think it'll be a good race between 6 teams for the 4 playoffs spots. ACE and STX won't be completely run over either, they will beat the top teams sometimes. But they don't have the depth for a real race, imo.
1. CJ
2. SKT1
3. Kespa
4. Samsung
5. KT
6. Woongjin
7. ACE
That's kind of a balance of hope / and expect. True hope would be Khan at the top, of course.
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I think everyone certainly can win it. Every season has a different edge to it. There have been a lot of changes, there has been a long break. We always have new hyped up-and-comers, and lots of players show the potential to make a splash. The format has been changed drastically, and we're on all new maps. So many factors make this season really really unpredictable. So yeah, every team has a shot. Even ACE.
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there is 1 map i swear flash will never loose on.
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On November 18 2011 16:25 tyCe wrote:
I can't believe a fellow KHAN fan can even write this thread. I like Samsung KHAN but I don't and cannot believe. An in-form Stork is scarier than anything except an in-form Flash (and probably equal to death-stare Jaedong) but Stork has been in-form maybe once or twice in the last two years. The last time Jangbi did well in a Starleague, he slumped for two years after that. We don't even have fbh manner ceremonies anymore.
I think ACE, STX and KHAN are around the same level, with Woongjin a little stronger.
Predictions for regular season play (play-offs depend on form and preparation, not consistency):
1. KeSPA team8
2. KT Rolster
3. CJ Entus
4. SKT T1
5. Woongjin Stars
6. Airforce ACE (no WL this season right?)
7/8. Samsung KHAN
8/7. STX SouL
Cmon man. Look at the ELO of the teams. Khan is the MOST STACKED TEAM of the league. Compare ELO of their top 8 to top8 of any other team, Khan is way ahead. Im not exaggerating, that is how strong they are.
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KHAN is much better than you're giving them credit for, top 5 will be different for many people, but bottom 3 is definitely Stars STX and ACE
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On November 18 2011 17:57 kdgns wrote:
KHAN is much better than you're giving them credit for, top 5 will be different for many people, but bottom 3 is definitely Stars STX and ACE
i agree they're the bottom three, but i'd say khan is only just above stars. the other 4 are all too good, however. really any team has a chance if you look at it from the big picture, however
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On November 18 2011 18:06 Phyrigian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 17:57 kdgns wrote:
KHAN is much better than you're giving them credit for, top 5 will be different for many people, but bottom 3 is definitely Stars STX and ACE i agree they're the bottom three, but i'd say khan is only just above stars. the other 4 are all too good, however. really any team has a chance if you look at it from the big picture, however
Except ACE T_T
But how cool would it be if fbh went on a roll ? A man can dream...
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People can diss Ace, and while I'm not saying it's Ace's time to win proleague, they are at the best I've seen them at.
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I want to see how Kal will fit into Ace, I think he will prove to be a nice player there with FBH
Stx is looking very underwhelming though, but I have faith they will pull some big upsets in the new PL format and new maps.
Stars and Khan I feel are pretty equal in power, and SKT/KT/CJ/Team 8 are all too close in power in this new format. Should be very fun to watch
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Netherlands29693 Posts
Stars is being brushed away, but the big 3 is no joke, they pose a credible threat to any team.
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On November 18 2011 17:57 kdgns wrote:
KHAN is much better than you're giving them credit for, top 5 will be different for many people, but bottom 3 is definitely Stars STX and ACE
Especially with the loss of Kal...
.. though ACE I think could do fairly well this PL, they have a strong (and of course, experienced) lineup.
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If the "Stars are aligned", then Woongjin finally wins another Proleague title. I believe!
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My personal rankings say:
1)Team8
2)CJ Entus
3)KT Rolster
4)SKT T1
5)Stars
6)KHAN
7)STX
8)ACE
Jaedong alone made Oz a decent team, with Sea and BaBy seems sooo insane. Tyson,Jaehoon and Killer are alright.
CJ was already deep enough, now with EffOrt they have: EffOrt,Hydra,Leta,sKyHigh,Movie and Horang2. Holy crap.
KT has Flash. Flash>Bisu. Fantasy sometimes sucks in proleague. Stats isnt bad. They also aquired Mind.
SKT is still a scary team, Always contending finals. Some FanboY said Bisu is pretty good.
I think Stars is StrongeR and deeper than KHAN. If you think about it KHAN is once again reverted back to Stork/JangBi 1-2 punch. Stars has ZerO,SoulKey,Light and hopefully, if he can get back Into form, free. Also GuemChi.
STX sucks. They have and out-of-form Calm and Bogus. Who knows though. STX is either Really good together or Complete shit together.
ACE is ACE. IM sorry, as much as I want to cheer for the underdog they always fall short.
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On November 18 2011 19:49 theslayer922 wrote:
Jaedong alone made Oz a decent team, with Sea and BaBy seems sooo insane. Tyson,Jaehoon and Killer are alright.
I think Killer is going to prove more useful than Sea and Baby. Killer is unstoppable right now!
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On November 18 2011 18:54 Kipsate wrote:
Stars is being brushed away, but the big 3 is no joke, they pose a credible threat to any team.
Indeed. There is no Zerg on the planet that can confidently beat Light a majority of the time. Soulkey is strong versus both Protoss and Terran. And then there is Zero himself, sitting and breathing in S-Class.
If these guys average a 67% winrate, then in any given match they will get 2 wins. Then they just need one more Stars member to step up and they have a match win. I put them at #6 in my ranking, but that's really a testament to how close the race will be. Stars could easily crack the Top 4.
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On November 18 2011 15:57 RoieTRS wrote:
Man shine isnt as bad as people say he is
No one actually thinks he's bad, they just jelly
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GRAND OLD AMERICA15736 Posts
On November 19 2011 02:20 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 15:57 RoieTRS wrote:
Man shine isnt as bad as people say he is No one actually thinks he's bad, they just jelly
anyone can play better if they have to go to the restroom at that moment. Works for me
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Khan I believe!
Everyone knows I'm a big Shine hater though x_x how am I going to deal this conflict of interest...
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I'm definitely interested in seeing how this season plays out, and everyone does seem to have a legitimate shot (on paper, right now) minus ACE and STX, but we never know what could happen. PL is going to be way more interesting because 6/8 of the teams are contenders, so the race for play-offs, and the play-offs will be super close and exciting. Also with the passage of what I will call "The Anti-Flash" Rule, the removal of ace matches, it will be interesting to see how teams prepare and how they adjust. I think KT surfers the most from this change, because whereas their youngsters came through in the play-offs, they haven't shown us the consistency necessary to say they will be reliable for a season. My pre-season power ranking is:
1. KeSPA Team 8
2. SK Telecom T1
3. CJ Entus
4. KT Rolster
5. Samsung KHAN & Woongjin Stars
7. STX
8. ACE
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Even the comments show how close it is - because as much as it is possible for Stars to win it all, they could also be out-scored by 3-4 or even 5 teams. Of course, I believe we'll be in the final, but who knows. Going to be intense competition.
It's exciting to think that it's possible that neither of SKT/KT/CJ make it to the finals this time.
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I can see ACE finishing 6th or 7th this season. FBH was hot up until the last few weeks of the season, if he can start off on a tear again they will post some upset wins for sure. KaL and Great can also roar back and start to win a ton of games for them, with the shorter season they can finish it strong.
1st: Team 8 (I believe!)
2nd: CJ
3rd: SKT or KT
4th: KT or SKT
5th: KHAN
6th: Stars or ACE
7th: ACE or Stars
8th: STX
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It's just way too uncertain. Speculate all you want, but yeah almost any team can win if they can whip themselves to their max.
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with new format,i can say CJ is scariest/favorite one for me.
Snow
EffOrt
Movie
horang2
Leta
Hydra
Skyhigh
CJ has deep roster.If CJ coachs doing their job right,CJ is big favorite in this format T.T
all about snipe.
but my heart with team octopus!
1.team 8th octopus!
2.CJ
3.KT
4.SKT1
5.KHAN
6.Woonjing
7.ACE
8.STX (:D)
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Even if the new format makes things more balanced, there is no way the bottom 4 teams (Khan, Stars, STX and Ace) have a chance of actually winning.
My predictions:
1. SKT
2. Team 8
3. CJ
4. KT
5. Khan
6. Woongjin
7. Ace
8. STX
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I think people are WAY underestimating ACE here. This is how I would place the line ups, based on the fact that the new format requires 5 solid players, but can be won by 3 "aces":
Jaedong/Sea/Baby/Killer/Jaehoon, I view this as the 3 piece auto-kill, and if one of them drops a game they have solid back up
Leta/Hydra/Effort/Movie/Skyhigh, this is probably the most solid team all around and I think this new format benefits them the most. The trick will be to for their 3 aces to be able to beat the aces they get put up against
Stork/Jangbi/Shine/Reality/Roro, if reality and roro are good at preparing for one map, then they will be able to pick up any slack that the top 3 players let up. If they can predict when Flash or Bisu, etc are going to play and snipe them it will be easy for Stork and Jangbi to take out the fodder
Zero/Soulkey/Free/Light/?, this line up is going to be stronger than people suspect, I expect  . Not sure who their 5th player will be
FBH/Iris/Great/Kal/Ggaemo, no solid ace, but I don't think that is going to be important. That just means when they face off against the ace of another team that if they win, they will most likely win the whole set!
Bisu/Fantasy/by.sun/Soo/S2, 2 S-class players accompanied by meh players
Flash/Stats/Action/Mind/CrazyHydra, The boss, with meh other players
Calm/Shuttle/Bogus/?/?, although they have 3 good players, I can't see them winning much.
Would be awesome if things wound up like this I welcome your flame
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Geez, I sure hope that STX picks up Hiya or else I think they are toast. They need to field Last regularly from now on, I think that judging from his performance in the past Playoff game in which he sniped Stork, Last seems to be able to pull off some extreme timing attack but falters in the lategame department much like TurN. Otherwise, KT, CJ, SKT and the newly created octopus team, KHAN will see you guys on the battlefield!
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i dont see how anyone can claim otherwise than what the TITLE stated, all of these guys are "progamers" after all, all of these teams deserve more credit than what some people would like to give them.
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United States21994 Posts
I don't know what the op is babbling about. Ace is the clear favorite to win, I mean we have... firebathero? Clearly victory will be ours!
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ace has a  great team, cant see them doing bad this season
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On November 19 2011 04:01 soujiro_ wrote:ace has a great team, cant see them doing bad this season
Honestly, I doubt that Great will be that much of a boost. I am much more interested in GGameo, Kal and FBH.
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The new maps are supposedly unfavorable for protoss, according to a recent interview with Bisu, Best, Movie, Horang2, Jangbi, and Stork (I couldn't find it but the thread is somewhere in BW General).
If there is some substance behind their argument underneath their bias, protoss-reliant teams SKT1 and Samsung Khan could end up further down the rankings. Obviously above ACE and STX, but still have trouble making the playoffs.
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On November 19 2011 04:29 domane wrote:
The new maps are supposedly unfavorable for protoss, according to a recent interview with Bisu, Best, Movie, Horang2, Jangbi, and Stork (I couldn't find it but the thread is somewhere in BW General).
If there is some substance behind their argument underneath their bias, protoss-reliant teams SKT1 and Samsung Khan could end up further down the rankings. Obviously above ACE and STX, but still have trouble making the playoffs.
Stats is also a key player on KT, albeit a bit invisible. Hoping it isn't true since I enjoy seeing a lot of Protoss games.
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On November 19 2011 03:29 slappy wrote:
Flash/Stats/Action/Mind/CrazyHydra, The boss, with meh other players
I welcome your flame
Look, I even have KT as #5 in my prediction, but this is not right. It is the boss, the boss' backup, with meh other players. Stats was serious business last season. Flash had the #2 overall record, and I think Stats was around #5 or so. KT has the strongest 1-2 Punch in the league. After that... not so much. But with only 3 wins needed to take the match... they don't need much more than Flash and Stats. That's what makes this season so exciting, no one can really be underestimated too much.
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I sure as hell hope that Ace will prove a lot of predictions wrong
FBH was great last season imo, and to me Ace always had this "hey, nobody expects too much, the players can get their mind free and overcome slumps easier" feel... (*) so I really think (and hope) that Kal will finally do good again
Not going to say they´ll win it all, for that other teams are way too stacked, but I think they´ll do a lot better than most would expect.
(*)Disclaimer : I pretend Canata didn´t happen. At all. Ever.
+ Show Spoiler +I may or may not be a little bit biased though
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On November 18 2011 17:01 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 16:35 rplant wrote:
Why would mirror matchups disappear as the season goes on?
How serious are map imbalances on proleague maps? Because as seasons go on, teams can use snipers to snipe partiular races, i.e. put Best or Stork on a T map, put Jaedong on a non-Z map, etc. But in the beginning, I think teams will just play it safe and put players on the maps they feel most confident in.
oh, how the times have changed....
imho the big 4 will be almost on the same level, aswell as the bottom 4, but i think there will be quite the discrepancy between the top and the bottom teams...
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?34578 Posts
Nov 26...... needs to come faster...... LIKE NOW!!
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EPT
