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Why dream teams fail. - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
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rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
November 16 2011 01:48 GMT
#41
Well one thing that separates this Dream Team from the other Dream Teams is that it wasn't really their choice to become a Dream Team, it just happened because their teams just dissolved.
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
jyLee
Profile Joined August 2009
United States350 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-16 02:34:56
November 16 2011 02:33 GMT
#42
This is well written but flawed. The comparison to the Eagles is way off. The core players on the Eagles are very talented but none of them are considered the "best" at their positions and none of them have ever won a thing. Team 8 is led by a proven champion and one of the absolute best players to ever play the game. He is surrounded by proven talent that have all proven their worth in proleague and individual leagues. The biggest difference is Jaedong though and he can lead a team like no other which he's proven with Jaedong Oz.

An all star team does indeed present teamwork problems like you suggested. However, when you have an MJ esque presence on that team it does not matter. All other egos and problems get pushed to the side when you have a true alpha male on your team. Make no mistake, this is Jaedong's team and they will follow his humble, confident, and hard working lead.

Nothingtosay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States875 Posts
November 16 2011 02:36 GMT
#43
This is a logically fallacy for a 1v1 team format. The players don't have to interact with each other in game they are still playing individually. This is just like my wrestling team in high school. The teams that won were those made of the best individual players even if they hated each others guts because a team victory didn't require teamwork.
[QUOTE][B]On October 16 2011 13:00 Anihc wrote:[/B] No, you're the one who's wrong. Nothingtosay got it right.[/QUOTE]:3
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
November 16 2011 03:01 GMT
#44
A team in BW isn't the same as a team in a company or other sports. What you quoted from Fortune definitely makes sense, but in BW, while players belong to the same team, they still play their own games, so having big stars on a team will on the contrary be a big incentive to win as many games as possible.

The analogy could work if they were playing a 4v4 I think. You could have TBLS in a same 4v4 team, each of them trying to be cute and show he's the best of the four, while the lower tier opponent will simply have a solid team play and wreck them. But since they actually play their own 1v1, they'll try their best to shine instead.

Stork used to be Khan's indisputable boss and went playing mobile phone games. Now that Jangbi won an OSL, and they recruited two decent zergs, I predict Stork to train harder and kick butts.

A real dream team in BW would simply be unbeatable. Of course there can always be some upsets, but a team composed of TBLS + EffOrt back in shape + Fantasy would just be invincible.
ॐ
kidd
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States2848 Posts
November 16 2011 03:15 GMT
#45
This team was basically forced together from others disbanding. It's just a different situation than teams trying to get players - these players want a team. Also, what everyone else is saying: they're playing individual matches.
Hi
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-16 03:19:54
November 16 2011 03:19 GMT
#46
People saying BW is an individual competition and thus teamwork and synergy don't matter are overlooking how important practice is. When you read winner's interviews pay attention to who the elite players thank for practicing with them, it's always the scrubiest of scrubs. Team 8 has no B team to use as their practice bitches. You think Baby is suddenly gonna become a TvZ beast practicing with Jaedong? If Baby went to Jaedong and said 'hey could you do build X cuz I wanna try come up with a counter for it' Jaedong is just gonna be like 'bitch watchu talkin about I got a finals against Flash coming up. You do the build I tell you to do, not the other way around." When the Kespa 4 are all in the OSL they will be too focused preparing for their individual matches and thus their team results will suffer.
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
November 16 2011 03:31 GMT
#47
On November 16 2011 12:19 red4ce wrote:
People saying BW is an individual competition and thus teamwork and synergy don't matter are overlooking how important practice is. When you read winner's interviews pay attention to who the elite players thank for practicing with them, it's always the scrubiest of scrubs. Team 8 has no B team to use as their practice bitches. You think Baby is suddenly gonna become a TvZ beast practicing with Jaedong? If Baby went to Jaedong and said 'hey could you do build X cuz I wanna try come up with a counter for it' Jaedong is just gonna be like 'bitch watchu talkin about I got a finals against Flash coming up. You do the build I tell you to do, not the other way around." When the Kespa 4 are all in the OSL they will be too focused preparing for their individual matches and thus their team results will suffer.


I believe baby can find online B team practice partners but that's all he can only do right now , I can't believe jaedong will react that way to baby lol .
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-16 03:38:26
November 16 2011 03:37 GMT
#48
Alongside has been the supreme roster of the Yankees that have for the past two years done nothing in the playoffs.
The fact that this is your example of "failure" is the biggest proof you could have given that dream teams don't fail at all.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Prince_Stranger
Profile Joined November 2010
Kazakhstan762 Posts
November 16 2011 03:41 GMT
#49
Everyone just shut up and watch what will be on 19th November!!! Jaedong Fighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-16 03:45:54
November 16 2011 03:44 GMT
#50
While some people in this thread have made interesting points about why team 8 isn't like the examples noted by the OP, heaps of people are just pointing out why the OP is wrong because the dream team is x, y and z. When the entire point of the OP was that the dream team isn't like other historical examples he gave and will succeed. Jesus.

Anyway OP, nice article and good read. You certainly sparked thought and conversation, even if some people are glaringly missing the point.
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
Ryusei-R1
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States2106 Posts
November 16 2011 03:52 GMT
#51
They're all under captain Jaehoon, all is well.
Jaedong plz
gen.Sun
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States539 Posts
November 16 2011 04:37 GMT
#52
Team 8 is not really a dream team. It's got only 1 of the TBLS. Maybe you can start calling something a 'dream team' when you have more than 2 of the TBLS together, but even then heh. Team 8 is not going to have the problems you described. JD is clearly the best player. The protoss all come from 1 team. Maybe there's going to be rivalry between Sea and Baby? But I think Sea is an obvious senior / terran ace over baby. Team is pretty balanced and doesn't seem OP at all. On paper it seems comparable to CJ / Khan imo.
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
November 16 2011 05:06 GMT
#53
On November 16 2011 12:41 Prince_Stranger wrote:
Everyone just shut up and watch what will be on 19th November!!! Jaedong Fighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It just became highly unlikely that the 19th will be the start of PL ..
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
iSometric
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
2221 Posts
November 16 2011 05:08 GMT
#54
IMO KT is more of a dream team than JD's team. But I feel like if they have good chemistry, Sea+JD will do very well in helping them to playoffs at least.
strava.com/athletes/zhaodynasty
Devise
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1131 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-16 05:23:10
November 16 2011 05:22 GMT
#55
It will be hard to see them lose unless a bunch of them play badly... look at Oz for example, they usually could count on Jaedong to win, maybe Killer or Hiya, maybe one of there young tosses, and then they could force the ace etc.

But with this team, you just need to count on 3 of Jaedong, Killer, Sea, Baby, Jaehoon, Tyson to win, then there's always an ace match...but a lot of teams will have trouble finding the depth to beat that many solid players unless they aren't on top of their games.
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
November 16 2011 05:28 GMT
#56
On November 16 2011 14:22 Devise wrote:
It will be hard to see them lose unless a bunch of them play badly... look at Oz for example, they usually could count on Jaedong to win, maybe Killer or Hiya, maybe one of there young tosses, and then they could force the ace etc.

But with this team, you just need to count on 3 of Jaedong, Killer, Sea, Baby, Jaehoon, Tyson to win, then there's always an ace match...but a lot of teams will have trouble finding the depth to beat that many solid players unless they aren't on top of their games.


KT with the drafting of mind we finally found a third reliable player , no longer do we pray , Stats and Flash must win and hope our zerg line's will seal the deal to us so we can go for ace match . Mind is a solid terran player and with flash,mind and stats playing well . I think kt is not going to be easy defeat these year .
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51707 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-16 05:39:24
November 16 2011 05:33 GMT
#57
On November 16 2011 11:33 jyLee wrote:
This is well written but flawed. The comparison to the Eagles is way off. The core players on the Eagles are very talented but none of them are considered the "best" at their positions and none of them have ever won a thing. Team 8 is led by a proven champion and one of the absolute best players to ever play the game. He is surrounded by proven talent that have all proven their worth in proleague and individual leagues. The biggest difference is Jaedong though and he can lead a team like no other which he's proven with Jaedong Oz.

An all star team does indeed present teamwork problems like you suggested. However, when you have an MJ esque presence on that team it does not matter. All other egos and problems get pushed to the side when you have a true alpha male on your team. Make no mistake, this is Jaedong's team and they will follow his humble, confident, and hard working lead.



i agree about the eagles, nnamdi is great, but he's not completely shutdown like revis, mccoy is still not an elite back yet and maclin/djax are overrated.

oh and vick is gutter trash.
Commentator
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5098 Posts
November 16 2011 05:38 GMT
#58
I think this is a great idea. There were a lot of rather weaker teams with mediocre lineups apart from one player. This sort of "trims the fat" for lack of a better word.

A little early to tell.

So fucking hyped for this season.
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
trifecta
Profile Joined April 2010
United States6795 Posts
November 16 2011 05:45 GMT
#59
well at least it seems like the team is gelling pretty well, with Jaedong finding his new younger brother, and Sea being reinvigorated by the level of his teammates, etc
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
November 16 2011 06:08 GMT
#60
Pointless argument because BW is not a team sport. It's more akin to baseball than basketball or football(both kinds). In that players' individual success is what create team success. And that individual success are more or less independent of each other. Yes, there are certainly team factors, but that is very small compared to the most important component of BW - individual play.

Meh
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