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On November 16 2011 08:30 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:33 aimaimaim wrote:On November 16 2011 07:24 Crisium wrote:
I thought CJ was the dream team.
Effort+ Hydra
Horang2 + Movie
Leta
I don't see how any team's top 5 can compete, not to mention Snow as a solid 6th. Though JD, Killer, Sea, Baby, and Jaehoon is pretty close. What?? Hydra, Horang2, Movie? Pssshh ... lol Records from 10-11 SPL (not including SWL) Hydra: 26-12 Horang2: 21-11 Movie: 18-10 Combined: 65-33 (66.3% win rate) Records from SWL Hydra: 6-5 Horang2: 6-5 Movie: 13-8 Combined: 25-18 (58.1% win rate) You were saying?
Yes. And now look whom Movie and Horang2 beat.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
This was a great read. Thanks.
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On November 16 2011 08:31 Crisium wrote:
Don't forget Jaehoon. He was a top dog toss last year.
lolwut? Top dog by what standard? Towards the end of the season he eeked into the top 10 Protoss, but that's about it. Even so, what high level vP players has he beaten? I count exactly one significant win post SWL.
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There isn't nearly as much team work (pretty much none when actually in game) in Starcraft compared to Basketball or Baseball. Like, Jaedong can still dominate even when his team sucks. He can probably still dominate on a good team (*erhm* will).
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On November 16 2011 08:55 mikyaJ wrote:
There isn't nearly as much team work (pretty much none when actually in game) in Starcraft compared to Basketball or Baseball. Like, Jaedong can still dominate even when his team sucks. He can probably still dominate on a good team (*erhm* will).
Quality practice is a team venture. Jangbi's interview after the OSL was telling on how important Khan's support was in prepping for the OSL (Thanks to them we got one of the best OSL finals to watch  )
Not to mention internal build orders and such
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I don't think there's any rule that teams made up of great players have to fail. Your example of a bunch of movie stars being paid a ludicrous amount of money for their sheer name value and producing a crappy film is really off base. It doesn't fit as a comparison to Brood War Progamers whose careers depend on their success.
I can't guarantee victory, but I know team 8 has A LOT going for it. A coach and players who desperately have something to prove. Players fighting for their very careers. Players who are more dedicated than your normal progamers in a lot of cases... The team chemistry from the interviews has looked positive (however much you want to trust that information. Overall the players want to rebuild themselves and are being reminded of their early days.
vs something like what used to be said about KT when they'd pay very famous players a lot of money to come to their side. Honestly it worked better than people admit, but if you could say the players got worse, they had much greater feelings of security and huge paycheques.
Team eight has fire. Jaedong is the only real super dreamteamy kind of guy. It's not like we put Flash Bisu and Jaedong all on one team and paid them a million dollars and said 'we trust you.' Although you're out of your mind if you don't think those players would do well anyway... Like I said.. Not really comparable to having a movie with a bunch of cameo's/roles no one cares about/a story no one cares about. A dream team of actors but a hack writer and director? Clearly the dream team is missing fundamentals there. But Team Eight has its fundamentals. It's only disadvantages are maybe the working environment is not as good as it should be, and they don't have a million b teamers to pick on. Who knows how that will affect them, but I'd say it's much more worrisome than 'oh we've got a lot of good players and there's a few random historical examples of good players not always equating success (but not really).'
Thanks for the effort, but I have to make that criticism It's good to have fun discussions like this regardless.
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Good effort but I laugh at your idea of Team 8 being a dream team.
The closest thing broodwar has ever had to a dream team was Ideal Space and KTF Magic N's. You could argue IS went on to be successful, and the KT system brought about the most dominant player of all time and current bonjwa Flash.
The attempt at analogies like Miami heat and NY Yankees was ok I guess....but it doesn't translate to broodwar, and especially not to team 8.
Any fan of bw progaming who has followed it for a long time would have a way different lineup as their ' dream team ' even if they only chose from current progamers.
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On November 16 2011 08:38 mtn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:30 xxpack09 wrote:On November 16 2011 07:33 aimaimaim wrote:On November 16 2011 07:24 Crisium wrote:
I thought CJ was the dream team.
Effort+ Hydra
Horang2 + Movie
Leta
I don't see how any team's top 5 can compete, not to mention Snow as a solid 6th. Though JD, Killer, Sea, Baby, and Jaehoon is pretty close. What?? Hydra, Horang2, Movie? Pssshh ... lol Records from 10-11 SPL (not including SWL) Hydra: 26-12 Horang2: 21-11 Movie: 18-10 Combined: 65-33 (66.3% win rate) Records from SWL Hydra: 6-5 Horang2: 6-5 Movie: 13-8 Combined: 25-18 (58.1% win rate) You were saying? Yes. And now look whom Movie and Horang2 beat.
Yeah... Fantasy, Stork, Stats, Shuttle, Bisu, Jaedong and Killer are completely horrendous versus Protoss, after all... Obviously Horang2 is complete trash and didn't have a single legitimate win all season. >.>
Movie had a pretty easy road to his record, but Horang2 beat some damn good players last season. :/
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Bisutopia19398 Posts
On November 16 2011 09:25 Ack1027 wrote:
Good effort but I laugh at your idea of Team 8 being a dream team.
The closest thing broodwar has ever had to a dream team was Ideal Space and KTF Magic N's. You could argue IS went on to be successful, and the KT system brought about the most dominant player of all time and current bonjwa Flash.
The attempt at analogies like Miami heat and NY Yankees was ok I guess....but it doesn't translate to broodwar, and especially not to team 8.
Any fan of bw progaming who has followed it for a long time would have a way different lineup as their ' dream team ' even if they only chose from current progamers.
Actually, you're not really laughing at me but the brood war community. I did not designate them the dream team, but that's what they are known as. Of course they have 4 amazing top tier players that have so much but potential, but let's be serious Mr. Ack1027. I'm a friggin SKT fan. Every year of every PL I have the dream team. No doubts, no arguments, in my mind I love every single player and believe they are the best on SKT. Therefore SKT is my dream team, no one else needed.
...But I digress. This article is about a new team that has been marked with so much potential hype and that is where this discussion can derive from. It was, I hope, a non-bias view point on the current situation of this new team.
I fully understand the arguments some of you have made about their matches being played by themselves, but proper training behind the scenes can really prepare you not just physical, but mentally for any battle. Like the person who posted about Jangbi winning the OSL with a very helpful Samsung Khan as his support. Can these player from different teams really rely on each other like that? We'll see if they start winning every game.
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On November 16 2011 07:15 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:13 rift wrote:
I think BW progamers lack the divisive egos that can ruin other dream teams. Yeah, collectivist cultures like Korean culture are different from individualist ones like US.
And its not like you can ball hog in SC.
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I don't think the "Dream Team" is quite "Dream" enough to have this problem. If you put Flash, Bisu and JD on the same team then yeah, it would probably get awkward, but while Sea, Baby and Killer are great players, it's not quite the same.
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Op is a hater. The Dream Team will get far because It's nothing like those sports you just mentioned. The way BW is played is way more harder mentally and the team has three aces which is unheard of in BW history. So, that being said I'm putting my support behind this team all the way to the finals.
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But they aren't actually playing together on the same map in the same match. So as long as they are all improving individually then they will win. Since they are actually playing against each other in practice I think egos clashing will only benefit their situation.
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![[image loading]](http://www.warriorsworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Dream-Team.jpg)
I believe in the dream team!!!
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The comparison of BW can't be made to team sports when team games are no longer in proleague. Also, I don't think the dream team is going to have a problem with their stars fighting over who should be their ace when it's obvious that Jaedong is a step above everyone else in terms of skill. And I think Jaehoon will be a solid captain who will keep the team together, but that's just a hunch.
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Why do "collectivist" societies favor individualist sports more than "individualistic" societies, who love team sports? The Russians have chess, the Chinese table tennis. The koreans - Taekwando? These sports are nothing but hobbies in Western countries.
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On November 16 2011 07:26 greenelve wrote:Yes your right, Dream Team 8 will fail like the US Basketballteam at Olympic Games '92 with Jordan, Magic Johnson, Bird, Pippen and Movies like Oceans Eleven with George Clooney, Matt Damon, Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts, Andy Garcia or like Barcelona with Messi, Iniesta, Xavi. You see, it can go well, even with many stars. It might happen or not. And i dont think Team 8 will win every game. If you look at their winningspercentages, they will win around 60% of their games I for myself hope Team 8 is dominating along with SKT, rivalry for more hype and thrilling league, and Jaedong will dominate every opponent and become the best player of all time (which he already is :p) But at the end: JUST START THE DAMN PL SEASON!!!!11
Very well put Completely agree.
I'm just happy that I won't have to see any "Jaedong Oz" quotes anymore ^^, as Jaedong definitely shouldn't have to carry this team.
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What were the results from the internal tournament?
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I expect team 8 to lose their first 2 games (assuming they play KT and SKT). It's not that I don't have faith in the players, but if u look at the lack of practice over the past few months, their late reception of the maps, and the little amount of prep and practice, it'll be hard to beat the 2 Proleague finalists. I'm not expecting them to just destroy right out of the gate, but I think they will be a strong contender the longer the season goes on.
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EPT
