• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:03
CEST 15:03
KST 22:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview1[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week 89 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Semifinals A
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1364 users

SC2 in Proleague? - Page 69

Forum Index > BW General
1399 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 67 68 69 70 Next
rotinegg
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States1719 Posts
November 28 2011 21:50 GMT
#1361
i wish there was a way you could hide individual threads from the left sidebar...
Translator
Bd.Snake
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia163 Posts
November 28 2011 21:52 GMT
#1362
Everyone needs to stop yammering on about how shit sc2 is and how there players are trash its really pathetic and ignorant
Well see the thing of it is you know theres alot of ugly people out there walking around but they dont know there ugly because nobody actually tells them
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-28 22:02:08
November 28 2011 21:59 GMT
#1363
On November 29 2011 05:47 ppshchik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 17:17 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
SC2 fans should pray that proleague does well and stays with BW for at least this full year (both seasons), because I'm putting money down that the inflow of S-class and A-class players switching to SC2 will not only destroy today's SC2 top players (former BW scrubs such as MVP, Iron(aka MC), ZERGBONG (Nestea), the fallen Nada and Boxer), but could bridge the gap significantly between foreigners and koreans, much like in brood war.


It's not like the A / S class BW progamers will dominate RIGHT AWAY as you imply. Took MVP quite a while, not to mention that his TvP is atrocious since TvP in SC2 is bio based whilst BW TvP is mech based so MVP needed time to adapt.

It will probably take Flash 3 months of SC2 practice to take games off Incontrol
about 1 year to take games off IdrA.
and probably about 1 year and a half to take games off IMMVP.

Just my 2 cents...

i know you trollin but it was funny

its funny when you realize it only works in 1 way because it doesnt work like that backwards (in bw)maybe only mvp would be able to take a game from flash in while incontrol/idra well, from months to infinity
Stork[gm]
Torpedo.Vegas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1890 Posts
November 29 2011 02:18 GMT
#1364
On November 29 2011 06:11 hydrogg wrote:
Show nested quote +


That doesn't make sense to me. The teams would probably go where the money is rather then let the team die for some fan biased reason. If SC2 proved stable enough financially and in a metagame sense, they would at least host a branch team.


Having a branch team isn't the same as SC2 proleague. WeMade Fox had a counter strike team. A lot of the other teams had Warcraft 3 players. That didn't mean that there was a counter strike or warcraft 3 proleague. However the proleague site has Special Forces, Brood War, and another game which is still unknown. http://www.e-sports.or.kr/


I was talking about Ribbon's response about how BW players playing SC2 means BW teams won't change. The teams may form a branch to play in the GSL or abroad if the money is right. And purely from a logistical stand point, KeSPA has a huge BW history and Starcraft experience in general, so again...if the money is there, SC2 would make more sense and probably cost them less then changing to a completely different game/genre. Cutting through the fan-bias, this organizations do not care about the SC2 vs BW essays that fans write. Only if it makes business sense to incorporate it given their current resources. Also, legalities with Gretech and KeSPA apply.
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-29 03:55:06
November 29 2011 03:54 GMT
#1365
On November 29 2011 11:18 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 06:11 hydrogg wrote:


That doesn't make sense to me. The teams would probably go where the money is rather then let the team die for some fan biased reason. If SC2 proved stable enough financially and in a metagame sense, they would at least host a branch team.


Having a branch team isn't the same as SC2 proleague. WeMade Fox had a counter strike team. A lot of the other teams had Warcraft 3 players. That didn't mean that there was a counter strike or warcraft 3 proleague. However the proleague site has Special Forces, Brood War, and another game which is still unknown. http://www.e-sports.or.kr/


I was talking about Ribbon's response about how BW players playing SC2 means BW teams won't change. The teams may form a branch to play in the GSL or abroad if the money is right.


The money isn't right, because none of it's in Korea. The BW sponsors would be getting into a field where the vast majority of their audience is literally incapable of buying their product.

And purely from a logistical stand point, KeSPA has a huge BW history and Starcraft experience in general, so again...if the money is there, SC2 would make more sense and probably cost them less then changing to a completely different game/genre. Cutting through the fan-bias, this organizations do not care about the SC2 vs BW essays that fans write. Only if it makes business sense to incorporate it given their current resources. Also, legalities with Gretech and KeSPA apply.


The thing is, BW makes a lot of fucking money in Korea. A lot more than SC2 does or will in the near future. Compare the crowd of the Proleague opening to the crowd of, say, the GSL Semifinals. BW fans vastly outnumber SC2 fans in Korea. And while it's true that an uncomfortably large number of them are fangirls who just like Bisu cause he's cute, then that's all the more reason to not fix what isn't broken, and BW isn't broken. It boomed. And then it shrank back a little. That just happens. It doesn't mean BW is dead.

It will happen, and I guarantee you, that sooner or later the rapid growth of SC2 will stop and fall back a bit to a "normal" state, which'll cause some teams to fail because they weren't prepared. 100% guarantee. And then everyone will freak out that SC2 is dying and a lot of BW fans will feel smug, but saying SC2 is dying then will be just as silly as saying BW is dying now. It's not.
LanTAs
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1091 Posts
November 29 2011 04:05 GMT
#1366
Guys, stop it. Stop the stupid discussion about how good players are and stuff like that. Stop the shit about how one game is dying and how another is going to soar through the roof, stop flaming each other about how much money this or that makes in whatever region of the world.

You guys are killing Starcraft.
Bd.Snake
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia163 Posts
November 29 2011 10:19 GMT
#1367
On November 29 2011 13:05 LanTAs wrote:
Guys, stop it. Stop the stupid discussion about how good players are and stuff like that. Stop the shit about how one game is dying and how another is going to soar through the roof, stop flaming each other about how much money this or that makes in whatever region of the world.

You guys are killing Starcraft.

I think they just want to feel important
Well see the thing of it is you know theres alot of ugly people out there walking around but they dont know there ugly because nobody actually tells them
rplant
Profile Joined May 2003
United States1178 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-29 11:05:54
November 29 2011 11:03 GMT
#1368
Ribbon wrote:
And while it's true that an uncomfortably large number of them are fangirls who just like Bisu cause he's cute...


How many? Is there a reliable source of Korean BW viewer demographics?
Believing in God is like believing in a teapot orbiting Mars (Edit: wow I was a douche in 2003)
rEalGuapo
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany832 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-29 11:14:17
November 29 2011 11:13 GMT
#1369
On October 20 2011 02:34 keiraknightlee wrote:
It won't matter if Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu aren't playing


But they will be playing next year, maybe the year after. Why else would suddenly a ton of BW players start SC2 and BW leagues shift over to SC2 etc.
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-29 11:27:36
November 29 2011 11:20 GMT
#1370
The thing is, BW makes a lot of fucking money in Korea.


If you are talking in context of a top player like Flash compared to a sc2 pro,yes.If you are talking about the company's sponsoring the BW team's,that's not actually true from what I understand.
Cackle™
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
November 29 2011 11:28 GMT
#1371
On November 29 2011 20:20 TheKefka wrote:
Show nested quote +
The thing is, BW makes a lot of fucking money in Korea.


If you are talking in context of a top player like Flash compared to a sc2 pro,yes.If you are talking about the company's sponsoring the team's,that's not actually true from what I understand.


broodwar has viewership numbering in the tens of thousands to hundreds(?) of thousands in korea alone, not counting china.

maybe 500 people show up for a gsl finals, which aren't even televised?

i don't think you can really compare the two of them.
Kiett
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States7639 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-29 11:38:12
November 29 2011 11:33 GMT
#1372
On November 29 2011 20:03 rplant wrote:
Show nested quote +
Ribbon wrote:
And while it's true that an uncomfortably large number of them are fangirls who just like Bisu cause he's cute...


How many? Is there a reliable source of Korean BW viewer demographics?


Here is my personal experience (as a Bisu fangirl in Korea):

It's a ridiculously false statement to say that a majority of BW fans are Bisu fangirls. Otherwise, why would anyone go to OSL finals (since Bisu never makes it T__T)? I suppose it's more accurate to say that many SKT fans are Bisu fangirls. But trust me, they don't like him JUST because he's cute.

In the early 2000s, many girls fell for Boxer, Yellow, Nada, Reach, etc. because they were mighty fiiiiine, and young adolescent females of that generation needed men to fawn over. Such is the nature of teenage girls. But things have since changed. Nowadays, cute Korean boys are a dime a plenty, thanks to all the K-pop boy groups that began to spring up in the latter half of the decade. In some ways, SC became less mainstream due to the loss of mass fangirls to these boy groups.

The current fangirls that still remain are here because they chose Starcraft progamers over K-pop (or are into both at the same time), which is pretty significant. I stood next to 4 Bisu fangirls during PL on Saturday, and every one of them were deeply absorbed in the games, even more so than I was (I admit, I spent a lot of time taking stalker pics of Bisu sitting at the bench). They cursed SoO for his poor performance, "YAH! YOONSOO! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! STOP LETTING VULTURES OWN YOU, AH FUCK," and debated among each other PvT tactics during Sun's game. It was far more than just, "oh my god Bisu let me have your babies you are so qt." They may show up on certain days to see Bisu, but they know and love this game just as much as any of you.
Writer:o
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
November 29 2011 11:34 GMT
#1373
On November 29 2011 20:28 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 20:20 TheKefka wrote:
The thing is, BW makes a lot of fucking money in Korea.


If you are talking in context of a top player like Flash compared to a sc2 pro,yes.If you are talking about the company's sponsoring the team's,that's not actually true from what I understand.


broodwar has viewership numbering in the tens of thousands to hundreds(?) of thousands in korea alone, not counting china.

maybe 500 people show up for a gsl finals, which aren't even televised?

i don't think you can really compare the two of them.

Which is why......I don't?
BW is X times bigger than sc2,there is no doubt about that.
I'm saying that the value of sponsoring BW team's for the company's doesn't translate in "a lot of fucking money" directly.
The true value for them lies in the positive PR and advertising for their products.
Cackle™
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
November 29 2011 11:47 GMT
#1374
On November 29 2011 20:28 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 20:20 TheKefka wrote:
The thing is, BW makes a lot of fucking money in Korea.


If you are talking in context of a top player like Flash compared to a sc2 pro,yes.If you are talking about the company's sponsoring the team's,that's not actually true from what I understand.


broodwar has viewership numbering in the tens of thousands to hundreds(?) of thousands in korea alone, not counting china.

maybe 500 people show up for a gsl finals, which aren't even televised?

i don't think you can really compare the two of them.


You can compare them, but to do it you need data rather than guess work.

One piece of imaginary data missing from your guess work is the viewing numbers of the GSL Korean stream.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
November 29 2011 11:49 GMT
#1375
On November 29 2011 20:33 Kiett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 20:03 rplant wrote:
Ribbon wrote:
And while it's true that an uncomfortably large number of them are fangirls who just like Bisu cause he's cute...


How many? Is there a reliable source of Korean BW viewer demographics?


Here is my personal experience (as a Bisu fangirl in Korea):

It's a ridiculously false statement to say that a majority of BW fans are Bisu fangirls. Otherwise, why would anyone go to OSL finals (since Bisu never makes it T__T)? I suppose it's more accurate to say that many SKT fans are Bisu fangirls. But trust me, they don't like him JUST because he's cute.

In the early 2000s, many girls fell for Boxer, Yellow, Nada, Reach, etc. because they were mighty fiiiiine, and young adolescent females of that generation needed men to fawn over. Such is the nature of teenage girls. But things have since changed. Nowadays, cute Korean boys are a dime a plenty, thanks to all the K-pop boy groups that began to spring up in the latter half of the decade. In some ways, SC became less mainstream due to the loss of mass fangirls to these boy groups.

The current fangirls that still remain are here because they chose Starcraft progamers over K-pop (or are into both at the same time), which is pretty significant. I stood next to 4 Bisu fangirls during PL on Saturday, and every one of them were deeply absorbed in the games, even more so than I was (I admit, I spent a lot of time taking stalker pics of Bisu sitting at the bench). They cursed SoO for his poor performance, "YAH! YOONSOO! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! STOP LETTING VULTURES OWN YOU, AH FUCK," and debated among each other PvT tactics during Sun's game. It was far more than just, "oh my god Bisu let me have your babies you are so qt." They may show up on certain days to see Bisu, but they know and love this game just as much as any of you.


girl spectators discussing starcraft tactics and performance T_T , I want to go to korea now , thanks for the insight kiet ^^
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
ShineOnYou
Profile Joined November 2011
93 Posts
November 29 2011 13:19 GMT
#1376
So I conclude these were false speculations? BW proleague started this week and no sign of sc2
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
November 29 2011 13:38 GMT
#1377
On November 29 2011 22:19 ShineOnYou wrote:
So I conclude these were false speculations? BW proleague started this week and no sign of sc2

the OP claims they are CONSIDERING sc2, not they have decided to add it. So there would be no way to prove these are false accusations just by sc2 not being played
Neo7
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States922 Posts
November 29 2011 13:44 GMT
#1378
So has anything been confirmed about this? I've noticed the PL logo in the overlays contains the StarCraft logo which could be replaced with an SC2 logo when a round for that comes.
It takes an idiot to do cool things.
DerpDog
Profile Joined October 2010
Korea (North)62 Posts
November 29 2011 14:04 GMT
#1379
On November 29 2011 20:33 Kiett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2011 20:03 rplant wrote:
Ribbon wrote:
And while it's true that an uncomfortably large number of them are fangirls who just like Bisu cause he's cute...


How many? Is there a reliable source of Korean BW viewer demographics?


Here is my personal experience (as a Bisu fangirl in Korea):

It's a ridiculously false statement to say that a majority of BW fans are Bisu fangirls. Otherwise, why would anyone go to OSL finals (since Bisu never makes it T__T)? I suppose it's more accurate to say that many SKT fans are Bisu fangirls. But trust me, they don't like him JUST because he's cute.

In the early 2000s, many girls fell for Boxer, Yellow, Nada, Reach, etc. because they were mighty fiiiiine, and young adolescent females of that generation needed men to fawn over. Such is the nature of teenage girls. But things have since changed. Nowadays, cute Korean boys are a dime a plenty, thanks to all the K-pop boy groups that began to spring up in the latter half of the decade. In some ways, SC became less mainstream due to the loss of mass fangirls to these boy groups.

The current fangirls that still remain are here because they chose Starcraft progamers over K-pop (or are into both at the same time), which is pretty significant. I stood next to 4 Bisu fangirls during PL on Saturday, and every one of them were deeply absorbed in the games, even more so than I was (I admit, I spent a lot of time taking stalker pics of Bisu sitting at the bench). They cursed SoO for his poor performance, "YAH! YOONSOO! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! STOP LETTING VULTURES OWN YOU, AH FUCK," and debated among each other PvT tactics during Sun's game. It was far more than just, "oh my god Bisu let me have your babies you are so qt." They may show up on certain days to see Bisu, but they know and love this game just as much as any of you.


Actually most of us only watch BW because we want to have Bisu's babies. We don't care about the game at all.
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
November 29 2011 14:04 GMT
#1380
On November 29 2011 22:44 Neo7 wrote:
So has anything been confirmed about this? I've noticed the PL logo in the overlays contains the StarCraft logo which could be replaced with an SC2 logo when a round for that comes.

Kespa hasn't said anything. The only confirmed fact is that BW players have tried out SC2 over the off-season. A lot of former BW pros can testify to this (Hiya, TheStC).
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
Prev 1 67 68 69 70 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Qualifier
13:00
Spring Champs Qualifier
WardiTV230
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech187
MindelVK 39
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 40431
Sea 5933
Mini 817
ggaemo 271
firebathero 250
Last 212
Soulkey 209
Rush 173
Zeus 140
Bonyth 109
[ Show more ]
hero 75
Pusan 68
Mind 55
Barracks 39
soO 37
Hm[arnc] 31
Backho 26
Sacsri 26
Nal_rA 18
ToSsGirL 17
Sexy 14
Aegong 12
Rock 8
Terrorterran 8
Icarus 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5689
qojqva180
League of Legends
Reynor91
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr35
Other Games
Grubby13404
singsing2020
B2W.Neo665
byalli361
DeMusliM333
Sick287
Lowko274
crisheroes269
monkeys_forever92
KnowMe90
ArmadaUGS20
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL29938
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Gemini_19 324
• StrangeGG 64
• Adnapsc2 26
• Response 4
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1885
• Jankos1501
Other Games
• WagamamaTV138
Upcoming Events
IPSL
2h 57m
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
2h 57m
Artosis vs Sterling
eOnzErG vs TBD
BSL
5h 57m
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Patches Events
9h 42m
GSL
18h 57m
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
1d 2h
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
1d 5h
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
2 days
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs SHIN
Rogue vs Bunny
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W7
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.