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On May 14 2011 08:30 NicksonReyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 05:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i bet this korean loss money for bet leta win, thats all,and he feel MAD No, he's a JD fanboy. I thought the "Flash Maphack" term came from him scanning hidden tech, expos, hidden lurkers, drops, army movement and stuff at the right exact time, not in his scouting pattern. It is because no other player has that "Map hack" game sense.
I think people first started using this after he scouted Light's hidden rax, then his hidden Fact, then his hidden starport... in one game
On May 14 2011 13:18 koreasilver wrote:
neo-ghostwriter
chuckle chuckle
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On May 14 2011 09:33 koreasilver wrote:
You are seriously annoying.
This is as stupid as if someone in made a thread in 2006 because he took people saying that Savior maphacks literally.
I miss those maphacking overlords...
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On May 14 2011 08:30 NicksonReyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 05:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i bet this korean loss money for bet leta win, thats all,and he feel MAD No, he's a JD fanboy. I thought the "Flash Maphack" term came from him scanning hidden tech, expos, hidden lurkers, drops, army movement and stuff at the right exact time, not in his scouting pattern. It is because no other player has that "Map hack" game sense.
Sometimes, this guy doesnt even need scan.
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5930 Posts
Yeah, like that time Flash flew his science vessel into Best's base to EMP an idle arbiter. Or when he, without scans or a successful scout, correctly predicted Calm's lurker all in by building three bunkers in a row, not building an engineering bay, and skipping stim for marine range.
His moves against Calm had me thinking he was cheating. He could well be...I still think the players can hear the commentators/crowd since I remember a game Shine blind blocked a BBS by switching his build or something. Just like Leta blocking Forgg's proxy factories, I can only assume Shine cheated because he's normally not that smart or aware.
But Flash is generally a risky player and so good with his timings and scans that I believe he's just really fucking good at Brood War. A lot of the time I think he kind of guesstimates builds and more often than not he's right and he stomps his opponent into the ground.
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I think people get way too riled up by GG.nore, he's just joking around trash-talking Flash a bit sometimes. And he does actually explain Flash's scouting technique well if you read the OP.
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On May 14 2011 20:09 tomatriedes wrote:
I think people get way too riled up by GG.nore, he's just joking around trash-talking Flash a bit sometimes. And he does actually explain Flash's scouting technique well if you read the OP.
LOL about the "sometimes".....
Praise your favourite player, defend him no matter what and maybe trash talk a little bit when he wins against a rival is one thing. When not even JD fanboys (who compared to him dont even seem to like JD and this is a good thing about him, a true fan) stand such overreactions and sometimes nonsense it shows something....
To me, even tho he has done a good job creating (not managing) the LR threads and has add some nice graphics, the only thing he has accomplished is make people hate JD or start a few flame wars that otherwise didnt need to happen. Tho I've read a post from him saying that since the ban he will not spoil results in polls and will keep the recommended games spoilers free too.
Just scale it down a bit and its all fine 
BTW the maphack thing didnt start because of the scouting pattern....it can be used to describe that but it was coined when Flash blind countered people, scouted hidden tech switches...proxy stuff and all that...not the inicial scout pattern. The move up ramp thing is a matter of the time until leta's scv reaches Flash's main or not.
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There was this game of Flash vs Best on Fighting Spirit and he somehow knew Best was going for a fast third even without any scouting. Pushed out with like 3 tanks and a bunch of rines for a contain. What a baller.
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On May 14 2011 20:09 tomatriedes wrote:
I think people get way too riled up by GG.nore, he's just joking around trash-talking Flash a bit sometimes. And he does actually explain Flash's scouting technique well if you read the OP.
To be honest I don't think a fellow Jaedong fan defending him serves any purpose but to provoke people into bashing him even more.
You have to admit that he has been overdoing it lately. At least it was mostly pro-JD stuff until now but adding anti-fanboyism unwarranted criticism of other players is bound to annoy people.
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On May 14 2011 20:52 KobraKay wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 20:09 tomatriedes wrote:
I think people get way too riled up by GG.nore, he's just joking around trash-talking Flash a bit sometimes. And he does actually explain Flash's scouting technique well if you read the OP. LOL about the "sometimes"..... Praise your favourite player, defend him no matter what and maybe trash talk a little bit when he wins against a rival is one thing. When not even JD fanboys (who compared to him dont even seem to like JD and this is a good thing about him, a true fan) stand such overreactions and sometimes nonsense it shows something.... To me, even tho he has done a good job creating (not managing) the LR threads and has add some nice graphics, the only thing he has accomplished is make people hate JD or start a few flame wars that otherwise didnt need to happen. Tho I've read a post from him saying that since the ban he will not spoil results in polls and will keep the recommended games spoilers free too. Just scale it down a bit and its all fine BTW the maphack thing didnt start because of the scouting pattern....it can be used to describe that but it was coined when Flash blind countered people, scouted hidden tech switches...proxy stuff and all that...not the inicial scout pattern. The move up ramp thing is a matter of the time until leta's scv reaches Flash's main or not.
whats the difference between creating ad managing threads? do you even see the way this guy manages LRs? I even tried to do 1 or 2 following his set up because its so neat and useful. yes hes a hopeless fanboy, lets just hope he keeps his word and not do it too much or at all in LRs.
Also, has anyone actually commented/reacted on the content of the OP?
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Flash is great, JD is great, I don't get why fanboyism needs to devalue the skill of another player. Sure I'll cheer screaming with beer in hand whenever Jaedong beats Flash, but at the end of the day they're all masters of their craft.
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1019 Posts
On May 15 2011 01:48 mierin wrote:
Flash is great, JD is great, I don't get why fanboyism needs to devalue the skill of another player.
lol a lot of TLers think otherwise, you aren't going to able to change their opinions.
Some of you guys underestimate how good the progamers can really get. When you play hundreds of thousands of games both in the practice house and on broadcast, you end up memorizing the timing of the opponent's initial build order, when they are going to take an expansion, etc etc. So when flash scans at the exact moment the opponent is teching carriers or if he is able to scout a proxy barracks, it doesn't mean he is cheating; he is just that good and we should appreciate that because this is the reason why we are able to watch and enjoy such high level games put on by flash and others.
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Watch more than 10 games of broodwar and you'll see how amazing some of flash's play is
Also what a hypocrite lolol
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There is one thing that really bothers me, every time I think about Flash. I read the rest of the thread and I am convinced that Flash has singularly the best star sense of any player today. However, sometimes it seems that he is TOO good.
The first game with Hydra in the recent MSL Ro4 is one such example. That marine split was just too good to be true, and I doubt anything but psychic powers could explain how Flash did it. He had no idea the lurkers were there, and split the marines before the lurkers had even attacked. This would be the opposite of what any terran player would do since there were mutas flying all around. Yet, Flash managed to preduct the lurker's exact position.
I am almost speechless.
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On May 15 2011 02:21 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 01:48 mierin wrote:
Flash is great, JD is great, I don't get why fanboyism needs to devalue the skill of another player. lol a lot of TLers think otherwise, you aren't going to able to change their opinions. Some of you guys underestimate how good the progamers can really get. When you play hundreds of thousands of games both in the practice house and on broadcast, you end up memorizing the timing of the opponent's initial build order, when they are going to take an expansion, etc etc. So when flash scans at the exact moment the opponent is teching carriers or if he is able to scout a proxy barracks, it doesn't mean he is cheating; he is just that good and we should appreciate that because this is the reason why we are able to watch and enjoy such high level games put on by flash and others.
I can do that and I'm not even a progamer. It's just called gaining game-sense from playing the game for like 10 years. (edit: obviously Flash has way better game sense than me, but timings like carriers and stuff are really standard because you can usually tell when your opponent is cutting a bit of army production to tech hardcore, since he will be way less confident in engaging you).
WaterTower, sensing stoplurkers used to be way sicker back in the day. It used to happen like every other TvZ. Also, you should try to participate in more recent conversations rather than bumping old threads.
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I came in here thinking that there would be a "mappack"....
Read wrong. 
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On June 06 2011 01:11 WaterTower wrote:
There is one thing that really bothers me, every time I think about Flash. I read the rest of the thread and I am convinced that Flash has singularly the best star sense of any player today. However, sometimes it seems that he is TOO good.
The first game with Hydra in the recent MSL Ro4 is one such example. That marine split was just too good to be true, and I doubt anything but psychic powers could explain how Flash did it. He had no idea the lurkers were there, and split the marines before the lurkers had even attacked. This would be the opposite of what any terran player would do since there were mutas flying all around. Yet, Flash managed to preduct the lurker's exact position.
I am almost speechless.
Well he knows the standard timings of when lurkers first hit the map, and to expect them somewhere along the path between his main and the opponent's, so he proceeds with caution (since that first m&m wave moves out without a vessel). On top of that, Hydra messed up and didn't hold position on those lurkers so they attacked as soon as the first marine was in range. Flash's reaction time is just incredible that he was able to spread and wipe them out so perfectly.
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On June 06 2011 01:22 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 01:11 WaterTower wrote:
There is one thing that really bothers me, every time I think about Flash. I read the rest of the thread and I am convinced that Flash has singularly the best star sense of any player today. However, sometimes it seems that he is TOO good.
The first game with Hydra in the recent MSL Ro4 is one such example. That marine split was just too good to be true, and I doubt anything but psychic powers could explain how Flash did it. He had no idea the lurkers were there, and split the marines before the lurkers had even attacked. This would be the opposite of what any terran player would do since there were mutas flying all around. Yet, Flash managed to preduct the lurker's exact position.
I am almost speechless. Well he knows the standard timings of when lurkers first hit the map, and to expect them somewhere along the path between his main and the opponent's, so he proceeds with caution (since that first m&m wave moves out without a vessel). On top of that, Hydra messed up and didn't hold position on those lurkers so they attacked as soon as the first marine was in range. Flash's reaction time is just incredible that he was able to spread and wipe them out so perfectly.
It's also standard to scan the place that your marines are headed in order to avoid getting skewered by lurkers.
I'm pretty sure most C Terrans will do this nowadays because it's likely lurkers will be there. Flash just takes the next step and just assumes that lurkers have been placed...
What WAS godly was that he suffered minimal losses, something most Terrans can't do.
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On June 06 2011 01:22 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 01:11 WaterTower wrote:
There is one thing that really bothers me, every time I think about Flash. I read the rest of the thread and I am convinced that Flash has singularly the best star sense of any player today. However, sometimes it seems that he is TOO good.
The first game with Hydra in the recent MSL Ro4 is one such example. That marine split was just too good to be true, and I doubt anything but psychic powers could explain how Flash did it. He had no idea the lurkers were there, and split the marines before the lurkers had even attacked. This would be the opposite of what any terran player would do since there were mutas flying all around. Yet, Flash managed to preduct the lurker's exact position.
I am almost speechless. Well he knows the standard timings of when lurkers first hit the map, and to expect them somewhere along the path between his main and the opponent's, so he proceeds with caution (since that first m&m wave moves out without a vessel). On top of that, Hydra messed up and didn't hold position on those lurkers so they attacked as soon as the first marine was in range. Flash's reaction time is just incredible that he was able to spread and wipe them out so perfectly.
Game one of that series he went fast vessel, and he also scanned the area a few seconds ahead of time. He never pushed out until he had 2 tanks and a vessel with some MM. Still a really nice split, though, and poor hold position micro from hydra. I think he caught Hydra off-guard more than anything.
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Russian Federation905 Posts
Wow this thread. OP is a very good analysis.
Flash knows TvZ inside out
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On June 06 2011 02:21 Gooey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 01:22 moopie wrote:On June 06 2011 01:11 WaterTower wrote:
There is one thing that really bothers me, every time I think about Flash. I read the rest of the thread and I am convinced that Flash has singularly the best star sense of any player today. However, sometimes it seems that he is TOO good.
The first game with Hydra in the recent MSL Ro4 is one such example. That marine split was just too good to be true, and I doubt anything but psychic powers could explain how Flash did it. He had no idea the lurkers were there, and split the marines before the lurkers had even attacked. This would be the opposite of what any terran player would do since there were mutas flying all around. Yet, Flash managed to preduct the lurker's exact position.
I am almost speechless. Well he knows the standard timings of when lurkers first hit the map, and to expect them somewhere along the path between his main and the opponent's, so he proceeds with caution (since that first m&m wave moves out without a vessel). On top of that, Hydra messed up and didn't hold position on those lurkers so they attacked as soon as the first marine was in range. Flash's reaction time is just incredible that he was able to spread and wipe them out so perfectly. Game one of that series he went fast vessel, and he also scanned the area a few seconds ahead of time. He never pushed out until he had 2 tanks and a vessel with some MM. Still a really nice split, though, and poor hold position micro from hydra. I think he caught Hydra off-guard more than anything.
You seem to be mistaken.
The lurkers moved into position at 9:16 game time. Flash's forces engage at 9:33, without a vessel. The vessel did not join Flash's forces until 9:50, after the lurkers were dead.
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EPT
