Hello everyone! Since I hate fantasy's bad gg timing and saw a post from Zona in the most recent PL thread about why people always say fantasy has bad gg timing, I decided to make a compilation of all the games which show the terrible GG timing of fantasy.
ok so xellos is raining tank fire on his natural, and there is also tank gol in his main base too. buildings are dying left and right. his base is pretty much empty. still doesn't GG for like 5 minutes or something. sheesshh.
ok so fantasy has no 3rd, no CC at nat, and his main has 1-2 chunks of minerals left. violet has 2 fully saturated bases, carriers, tons of dts, hts, goons etc. doesn't gg for ages.
lurkers dropped all over his main. his marine drops are taken out. then his nat dies and 70% of his main is gone. no units. CC lifted. still takes a while.
stork has billion carriers and clears fantasy's main and nat? and 3rd too maybe. he just desperately builds turrets and tries to make starports for wraiths... lol
kinda bad.. loses nat bunker with 1 marine, lifts nat CC + rax, only has scvs + 1 vulture and tank in main vs lots of hydras. takes a minute or two for the GG.
On February 23 2011 01:19 mizU wrote: I enjoy players putting in a little effort I guess, rather than seeing them gg pre-emptively or prematurely.
I guess Fantasy's counterpart would be IdrA then ;D
I would try to defend Fantasy vs Jaehoon, but Jaehoon isn't that bad of a player anymore. Hmm...maybe Fantasy just has off days and doesn't gg right away? ^^;
On February 23 2011 01:19 mizU wrote: I enjoy players putting in a little effort I guess, rather than seeing them gg pre-emptively or prematurely.
I guess Fantasy's counterpart would be IdrA then ;D
I would try to defend Fantasy vs Jaehoon, but Jaehoon isn't that bad of a player anymore. Hmm...maybe Fantasy just has off days and doesn't gg right away? ^^;
It always makes me laugh cause i'm not a fan of fantasy, especially things like the float of CC after 4pool. It kinda ruins the 'gg' moment where everyone knows its over and the commentators can go crazy when he stays in the game so long.
Edit: honestly Jaedong takes too long to gg a lot of times, it's sad to see his face when he knows hes lost but tries to hold on anyway especially vs P.
Keep in mind the context of some of those games, if he can know he's lost, and not put effort into playing, he's tiring out his opponent at no cost to his own stamina. Or as Piste said, he may be buying time for his team if he knows they need some time to plan for the next match.
On February 23 2011 01:49 huameng wrote: It's so stupid to complain about gg timing. If people gg'd when TL wanted them to Flash would have like 50% winrate in TvT!
Well how many games has Flash somehow won when he should have lost and how many games has Fantasy won? Also I think the examples (juding by description) were to the point where even Flash would have typed GG at that point.
Other players have moments where they should have GG'd, like I remember Effort lost a ZvZ and was close to being eliminated when the match wasn't that close, but these are rare moments or at least should be.
Nice compiliation. His GG-timing has bothered me quite a bit too. Basically one of the two reasons why I cannot get myself to really like him (the other one being that he is like 6.3 and weighs around 100lb, I just wanna force feed him whenever I see him)
I think the reason we ever have slow GG times is because the losing player put a lot of thought, effort, and preparation into that game. Everyone who plays regularly is used to losing sometimes, but when you planned something special and specific it might take a bit to let it sink.
This is why I think Fantasy has bad GG timing moreso than any other player by a lot. Fantasy is probably the best known player for putting excruciating amounts of thought and preparation for a specific game and he probably does it moreso than often -- this is on TOP of being in the shadow of the SKT terran line. Add in his reputation for being a "revolutionary" player, and he has a LOT of expectations, so when his well thought out builds fail he not only fails on a personal level moreso than many other players, but he fails in light of his legacy as well. I think losses hurt him more than any other player in the league because of his situation and his introverted demeanor, and therefore we get these bad GG timings a whole lot.
I hate it when he does it and it's honestly the only reason I'm not a fan of him, but I understand WHY he does it so often. No one tries as hard with as much looming over them as him.
On a funnier note, the longer he takes to GG, the longer he has to figure out how to tell Oov why he lost! Maybe that's why Canata was so depressed all the time, Oov is a fiery coach.
edit: woops meant to edit this into the last post.
On February 23 2011 01:59 Shiladie wrote: Keep in mind the context of some of those games, if he can know he's lost, and not put effort into playing, he's tiring out his opponent at no cost to his own stamina. Or as Piste said, he may be buying time for his team if he knows they need some time to plan for the next match.
^this. True.. Just like football (soccer). After a save from the keeper, he'll hold on to the ball for awhile to let his team to move foward then he releases the ball. ;D
It's silly how giving up sooner is considered "good" GG timing. A player is not supposed to give up the moment he enters a disadvantage. Give him time to play it out.
On February 23 2011 03:24 salito wrote: It's silly how giving up sooner is considered "good" GG timing. A player is not supposed to give up the moment he enters a disadvantage. Give him time to play it out.
If you watched any single one of those games it wasn't a "disadvantage." It was a clearly hopeless situation and he drug it out, bordering on forcing his opponent to eliminate him sometimes.
On February 23 2011 03:08 Milkis wrote: You need good game sense to realize you have no chance of winning
as i've been telling people for ages Fantasy has zero game sense.
I loled :D Well, I do not see anything bad if he likes to play till the last second, whats wrong with it? It's annoying but you shouldn't have anything against this.
On February 23 2011 03:08 Milkis wrote: You need good game sense to realize you have no chance of winning
as i've been telling people for ages Fantasy has zero game sense.
I loled :D Well, I do not see anything bad if he likes to play till the last second, whats wrong with it? It's annoying but you shouldn't have anything against this.
As a matter of fact, the number one reason to be against something is because you dislike it!
On February 23 2011 02:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: On a funnier note, the longer he takes to GG, the longer he has to figure out how to tell Oov why he lost! Maybe that's why Canata was so depressed all the time, Oov is a fiery coach.
edit: woops meant to edit this into the last post.
oov facepalms a lot, so if Fantasy made any obvious mistakes, then Fantasy definitely wants to think it out first before leaving his booth.
This does not apply to their current form, however CJ Entus' gg timing as a team was the worst of all twelve last year back when Movie was still half decent. They just refuse to gg until their last unit dies.
On February 23 2011 03:08 Milkis wrote: You need good game sense to realize you have no chance of winning
as i've been telling people for ages Fantasy has zero game sense.
I loled :D Well, I do not see anything bad if he likes to play till the last second, whats wrong with it? It's annoying but you shouldn't have anything against this.
As a matter of fact, the number one reason to be against something is because you dislike it!
Pssh, Fantasy just doesn't like losing, especially against protoss.
On February 23 2011 02:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: On a funnier note, the longer he takes to GG, the longer he has to figure out how to tell Oov why he lost! Maybe that's why Canata was so depressed all the time, Oov is a fiery coach.
edit: woops meant to edit this into the last post.
oov facepalms a lot, so if Fantasy made any obvious mistakes, then Fantasy definitely wants to think it out first before leaving his booth.
Omg dude, that game where he plays Action... I was laughing so hard after seeing oov's facepalm
Yea....watching Fantasy not gg is kind of amusing. The more amusing thing is the korean commentators trying to find things to say after they know its already over. They also try to make the gg exciting even though they knew it was coming for a while lol.
skt1 coach said it in a nal ra video: fantasy is the culmination of boxer and iloveoov togheter. I think that saays it all. (btw he also said nal_ra was ahead all game and only lost cus of 1 bad engagement, Respect nal_ra!)
Given his featureless expression a lot of the time I can't really decipher if he's either A: Scared of Oov's disappointment, B: Trying really hard to be Flash and stage a miraculous comeback, C: So disappointed with himself and how he played/executed his build or D: pissed off at whatever his opponent did. Whatever the most prevalent reason, he should stop doing it so damn much for so damn long.
On February 23 2011 04:55 ReketSomething wrote: Yea....watching Fantasy not gg is kind of amusing. The more amusing thing is the korean commentators trying to find things to say after they know its already over. They also try to make the gg exciting even though they knew it was coming for a while lol.
Bad GG timings ruin otherwise really good games, Fantasy. The GG has to be EPIC, not dragged on for 5 minutes after the decisive moment.
On February 23 2011 02:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: On a funnier note, the longer he takes to GG, the longer he has to figure out how to tell Oov why he lost! Maybe that's why Canata was so depressed all the time, Oov is a fiery coach.
edit: woops meant to edit this into the last post.
oov facepalms a lot, so if Fantasy made any obvious mistakes, then Fantasy definitely wants to think it out first before leaving his booth.
Omg dude, that game where he plays Action... I was laughing so hard after seeing oov's facepalm
In other hand, he proved here the lack of game sense as well. He refused to gg when the game was already lost, and he didnt know that... ...and he somehow won that game XD
On February 23 2011 02:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: On a funnier note, the longer he takes to GG, the longer he has to figure out how to tell Oov why he lost! Maybe that's why Canata was so depressed all the time, Oov is a fiery coach.
edit: woops meant to edit this into the last post.
oov facepalms a lot, so if Fantasy made any obvious mistakes, then Fantasy definitely wants to think it out first before leaving his booth.
Omg dude, that game where he plays Action... I was laughing so hard after seeing oov's facepalm
In other hand, he proved here the lack of game sense as well. He refused to gg when the game was already lost, and he didnt know that... ...and he somehow won that game XD
? The game wasn't lost at all, he just made an enormous, completely retarded mistake that almost threw the game away and gave action the win for no other reason than being dumb, and to that oov did the big reaction thing we have gif'd. No one with sense about them thought that game was lost, just that Fantasy made it way way too close and scary for his own good.
I think late GG, with player being known for this, can serve well because opponent isn't going to know exactly are you actually dead or not yet. And in some 0.000001% case he might miss something. Well it's not 0.000001 maybe. Maybe larger. Anyway, even a progamer can make a mistake like being too relaxed when game's not over
edit: fuck - i misspelled one word and the sense was completely lost T_T
In fact i think that action had that game after fantasy gave his marines on the silver pattern, most players would give up after that instantly and if he lost , that game would be another one with "look, he refused to gg for all one minute, when the game was already over". But he won, so everybody are saying now (after the fact) that this game was not lost at all. (TBH I was face palming that game and thought that fanta will gg, but he saved himself somehow).
EDIT: I watched the game once again and you are right, it was not that hopeless situation as i thouth (looks like iritation just made me thouth that LOL)
On February 23 2011 01:31 AppleTart wrote: Fantasy has some of the worst GG timing out everyone. I'm trying to think of someone else who has bad GG timing.
On February 23 2011 05:10 Kimaker wrote: Jaedong's had some questionable GG timing...but I think it's because it's just so hard to fathom him losing xD
You're making my cry, man I remember the days when people were actually surprised JD lost
I feel for him. It's the same reason why some people pull the plug or place pylons around the map when they've been cheesed out of a win, or when they lose in a very depressing fashion.
and if he were to ever come back with 1 vulture against 200/200 flash army, it'd be one of the most memorable games of all time. maybe one of the most boring as well...
I see where you're coming from, and some of those examples are rather painful, but I have a hard time faulting a player for trying "too hard" to win. He had no chance in those games, but what about games where he came back from a disadvantage? Even if there is one game to play counter to all of the examples, it was worth sticking around for all of them. It does decrease the entertainment value of the event as a spectacle, but players shouldn't be trying to please an audience instead of winning.
I think that fantasy's "bad gg timing" is certainly better than the contra positive: a player who quits when they could have won.
If players were just trying to create entertaining games, then turtling would be illegal, and I can think of a few players who would take substantial hits to their career if they were to stop turtling.
Then again, I am a jung myung hoon fan, so my perception might be slightly warped.
On February 23 2011 07:41 Lightwip wrote: Remember Light vs Free? The one that caused free to slump? That is proof enough that you can make insane comebacks.
Flash has been proof time and time again, it's just no one else really pulls that stuff off consistently enough for the general population to keep hope. Plus Fantasy hasn't really come back from anything... he's not that kind of player. Also a lot of his not ggs are really ridiculous. It's different to not gg when you lost a base or something or a big fight, but when you float your CC yeah...that's a different level.
On February 23 2011 07:41 Lightwip wrote: Remember Light vs Free? The one that caused free to slump? That is proof enough that you can make insane comebacks.
Flash has been proof time and time again, it's just no one else really pulls that stuff off consistently enough for the general population to keep hope. Plus Fantasy hasn't really come back from anything... he's not that kind of player. Also a lot of his not ggs are really ridiculous. It's different to not gg when you lost a base or something or a big fight, but when you float your CC yeah...that's a different level.
Lol yeah, I think Fantasy is a special case in bad gg timing. It's especially bad.
I suppose he just takes losses harder than others. I don't think it's to do with his preparation as he GGs badly in starleagues and proleague and winner's league. I think he just has a little emo moment as he savours defeat before tapping out.
hmm I watched some of these games, and I think it's pretty entertaining. That game where he has nothing except for a single vulture against 20 lings and he microes like crazy and takes out like 10 or so lings...
Better than Idras "gg" timings... Last night in the Clas of the titans showmatch, he gg-ed out of a game right before the final battle, because it looked pretty bad, but not impossible...
Fantasy ggs late because he is the smartest progamer alive and knows there is always that tiny chance his opponent could have a seizure in the booth and die right as they are about to win, which would enable fantasy to make a crazy comeback.
I am going to spin this positively. You don't blame a player from gging late in the final game of a starleague final do you? That is how dedicated Fantasy is in every single fucking game.
On February 23 2011 10:14 kNyTTyM wrote: I am going to spin this positively. You don't blame a player from gging late in the final game of a starleague final do you? That is how dedicated Fantasy is in every single fucking game.
He does that in every single game, though. There are times when it's justifiable, doing it in practically every game you lose is a bit worse. He's got a defeatist attitude -- it's probably the biggest reasons behind his huge starleague troubles in times past.
yeah fanta has very bad gg timeing but I guess its because of various reasons that some have already said here, Oov is quite temperamental as a coach (see action vs fantasy oov grabing his head and shouting), Fantasy is also played in PL in very dire situations last match or a tiebreaker and well Fantasy is stubborn in his play he doesn't like to deviate from his gameplan which many times is a double edge sword it plays against him and in his favor.
On February 23 2011 10:14 kNyTTyM wrote: I am going to spin this positively. You don't blame a player from gging late in the final game of a starleague final do you? That is how dedicated Fantasy is in every single fucking game.
He does that in every single game, though. There are times when it's justifiable, doing it in practically every game you lose is a bit worse. He's got a defeatist attitude -- it's probably the biggest reasons behind his huge starleague troubles in times past.
His GG timing seems to be the exact opposite of a defeatist's GG timing, isn't it? Fantasy is pretty much the last person on earth to acknowledge he's lost!
On February 23 2011 10:14 kNyTTyM wrote: I am going to spin this positively. You don't blame a player from gging late in the final game of a starleague final do you? That is how dedicated Fantasy is in every single fucking game.
He does that in every single game, though. There are times when it's justifiable, doing it in practically every game you lose is a bit worse. He's got a defeatist attitude -- it's probably the biggest reasons behind his huge starleague troubles in times past.
You might be overthinking. The guy did win a starleague after all, and played two other finals. I'm sure it annoys his opponents sometimes but in the end it's no big deal.
I think fantasy should not GG until after his last building dies. We love you fantasy. One of these days you'll make a crazy comeback in an ace match. Fantasy fighting!
I think fantasy's just figured out a way to be BM without getting fined, all this "he has no game sense" BS is obviously false if you've watched any of his games.
so what if he has bad gg timing, thats nothing, that doesnt make him a bad player, he can own hard, just watch osl final, or his all kills against fox and stx, u dont get all kills without game sense or reach starleagues finals for that matter, hatters gonna hate
You gotta admit, if there wasn't any bad GG timing out there at all, then there wouldn't be as many chances for BM. As painful as it is to watch any player out there to do some bad GG timing, there is a small glimmer of hope for some amusing BM to happen.
And you have to look at the player's perspective for a moment. Although they may face a situation where a comeback is impossible, they just don't want to lose and want to stall having to face the consequences for as long as possible. Although GGing at those moments may be the sensible thing to do for most people, for some, GGing is not an option. A good example to describe this is when you play a board game against a stubborn person and they refuse to stop playing, even though you've basically already won. And when you tell them to stop playing, they just give you a big "FU" and continue to keep on playing the game. I feel that this example can be applied the same way to Fantasy.
Most players out there have done some bad GG timing at least once. Fantasy is just a really, really, really stubborn player. And if you hate stubbornness, then you will hate Fantasy's guts to bits, because Fantasy takes being stubborn to a whole 'nother level.
I don't hold it against him, it's always good to take the opportunity to improve crisis management. I know I've had some insane comebacks because of my joy for fighting to the last breathe.
On February 24 2011 12:02 writer22816 wrote: Stop complaining about his gg timing lol, if you played this game for money then you wouldn't want to give up so easily either
I think it's just Fantasy's utter hatred for losing a game and this is how it manifests itself. Where a guy like Idra ragequits, Fantasy just refuses to accept the loss for another 5 minuts.
I really don't mind either, plus it's always nice to see scouts :D
Fantasy doesn't do a good job of looking heartbroken, though. When FBH refuses to GG, I really feel for the guy. Fantasy just looks like he's swallowing three times a second instead of two as he floats his main base =x
On February 24 2011 12:02 writer22816 wrote: Stop complaining about his gg timing lol, if you played this game for money then you wouldn't want to give up so easily either
Well, i've seen some bad gg timing even at low level. The games against Xellos and Skyhigh remember me a lot of myself when i'm losing, i get pissed and i refuse to quit just because i thought i had the game easy and suddenly everything falls apart. This is pretty bad i know, but at least i never played on TV, where it pains all the fans watching.
Oov was known for his rather quick gg, he must have forgot to teach Fantasy this part of his game.
On February 24 2011 19:13 GolemMadness wrote: Flash vs Best, set 2 of the NATE MSL RO8. Now THAT was some ridiculous GG timing.
Game 3 as well, when he had his hand off the keyboard, and still refused to gg for a couple minutes afterwards.
Sometimes when you screw up and lose, you don't seem to know what's going on anymore. Instead you try to think of what you did wrong, or what you could have done. I think that's also one of the reasons which caused these GG timings. It's not like they were trying to BM or look for comebacks, their minds were on something else for a couple of minutes before they realized "oh right the game is still going on"
I'm pretty sure alffla is like the biggest terran hater on TL though lol. At least that's what I get from his posts, so I might be wrong. I just think this is a bit spiteful. While I would say lots of Fantasy's gg timing is questionable, that's the least concerning part of his play (e.g. his play is freaking inconsistent).You can't fault him for trying, and there's probably a team dynamic in there too. :/
And it's been brought up a lot, but JD has some pretty terrible gg timing himself. Also, TurN vs ggaemo anyone?
Edit: Btw, there was a recent game where someone was eliminated (or at least gg'd with like 1 building left). Don't really have the time to go through all the recent LR threads but does anyone know who it was? I think a protoss was on the losing end.
absolutely hilarious thread and sick list all these are fairly recent though, I'm sure there are many more games of Fantasy's GG timing
I must say that to be fair to fanta though, he is the type who tries too hard and is very very resilient; his gg timing reflects this. He wouldn't be fantasy if he didn't give his best shot.
On February 24 2011 21:43 radialis wrote: Edit: Btw, there was a recent game where someone was eliminated (or at least gg'd with like 1 building left). Don't really have the time to go through all the recent LR threads but does anyone know who it was? I think a protoss was on the losing end.
It was Grape (vs Saint), and I believe he was eliminated (lost the pylon and robo), but squeezed in a quick gg.
On February 24 2011 21:43 radialis wrote: I'm pretty sure alffla is like the biggest terran hater on TL though lol. At least that's what I get from his posts, so I might be wrong. I just think this is a bit spiteful. While I would say lots of Fantasy's gg timing is questionable, that's the least concerning part of his play (e.g. his play is freaking inconsistent).You can't fault him for trying, and there's probably a team dynamic in there too. :/
And it's been brought up a lot, but JD has some pretty terrible gg timing himself. Also, TurN vs ggaemo anyone?
Edit: Btw, there was a recent game where someone was eliminated (or at least gg'd with like 1 building left). Don't really have the time to go through all the recent LR threads but does anyone know who it was? I think a protoss was on the losing end.
hahaha noooo i ..often feel frustrated when i see terrans winning but i still very admire good terran play :D especially beautiful TvZ .. off the top of my head for recent games that have impressed me a lot would be how flash dominated best on fortress and flash vs snow on benzene was amazing too.
haha i'm sure many other players have had bad gg timing games but it just seems that fantasy does it a lot more than anyone else...... D:
On February 24 2011 21:52 POWEROUTAGE wrote: man I love alffla
absolutely hilarious thread and sick list all these are fairly recent though, I'm sure there are many more games of Fantasy's GG timing
I must say that to be fair to fanta though, he is the type who tries too hard and is very very resilient; his gg timing reflects this. He wouldn't be fantasy if he didn't give his best shot.
On February 24 2011 21:43 radialis wrote: Edit: Btw, there was a recent game where someone was eliminated (or at least gg'd with like 1 building left). Don't really have the time to go through all the recent LR threads but does anyone know who it was? I think a protoss was on the losing end.
It was Grape (vs Saint), and I believe he was eliminated (lost the pylon and robo), but squeezed in a quick gg.
The best one was Bisu getting eliminated and not typing gg at all, against Savior of all players :p
It makes for better TV especially for the commentators.
It's the kind of like for football players that run on for 10 seconds with the ball and kick it into the goal even when they know they've heard the whistle blow for offside....
On February 24 2011 23:39 Tsenister wrote: It makes for better TV especially for the commentators.
It's the kind of like for football players that run on for 10 seconds with the ball and kick it into the goal even when they know they've heard the whistle blow for offside....
That is only true in cases like Reach where you know hes going to lose but his epic manliness hangs on while he makes his last stand.
When people float CCs and slowly fly away it's no longer entertaining.
What if he wanted to delay his next game? After some games my nerves are shot and I need the time to calm down.... it's part of his tournament strategy.... So this is fine by me.
analogy: I've seen some guys MEASURE distances from mousepad to keyboard. That's funny, but also part of how they play. You can't play well if you're full of adrenaline, especially the early game.
On May 10 2011 11:40 Wonderballs wrote: What if he wanted to delay his next game? After some games my nerves are shot and I need the time to calm down.... it's part of his tournament strategy.... So this is fine by me.
analogy: I've seen some guys MEASURE distances from mousepad to keyboard. That's funny, but also part of how they play. You can't play well if you're full of adrenaline, especially the early game.
Except he also does it in Proleague, when he won't be able to play the next game
On May 10 2011 11:40 Wonderballs wrote: What if he wanted to delay his next game? After some games my nerves are shot and I need the time to calm down.... it's part of his tournament strategy.... So this is fine by me.
analogy: I've seen some guys MEASURE distances from mousepad to keyboard. That's funny, but also part of how they play. You can't play well if you're full of adrenaline, especially the early game.
Maybe he wants to spend some time analyzing what exactly went wrong, and can do it better while he is still in a mental state of being focused on the game.
When I played tennis back in college, when I lost I would stay on the court for a bit and think about what I could of done better If I could, as it was a lot easier to focus and the loss was fresher in my mind. The moment I stepped off the court my focus started shifting elsewhere.
On May 10 2011 12:18 Carkis wrote: lol cool thread I agree maybe he does it to wear his opponent out ?
Fantasy's GG timings are so bad sometimes, that all it requires is an A-move and some macro. I actually think the Effort vs FLash on judgement day is a good example of a Fantasy GG timing. And if it hasn't been mentioned, Game 5 of the Batoo OSL finals.
I think this is preference, not exactly BM. I mean I always play until I have no attacking units I can micro, but the lifting CC thing was definitely he was upset, not because he was trying to troll Jaedong and the spectators. Honestly this is just being made a big deal of, as some people do not take loses seriously as others.
On May 10 2011 12:18 Carkis wrote: lol cool thread I agree maybe he does it to wear his opponent out ?
Fantasy's GG timings are so bad sometimes, that all it requires is an A-move and some macro. I actually think the Effort vs FLash on judgement day is a good example of a Fantasy GG timing. And if it hasn't been mentioned, Game 5 of the Batoo OSL finals.
You say as if you fully understand how it feels to lose a Game 5 of a Bo5 finals.
On May 10 2011 12:18 Carkis wrote: lol cool thread I agree maybe he does it to wear his opponent out ?
Fantasy's GG timings are so bad sometimes, that all it requires is an A-move and some macro. I actually think the Effort vs FLash on judgement day is a good example of a Fantasy GG timing. And if it hasn't been mentioned, Game 5 of the Batoo OSL finals.
You say as if you fully understand how it feels to lose a Game 5 of a Bo5 finals.
Don't be so cruel towards those cases
I believe you have watched that game, and he had a valkyrie against muta scourge and lings. His wall was down, turrets burning, production buildings burning.
SKT vs OZ last night: hilarious how he has 1 scv, doesnt know where jaedong is, a handful of marines against jaedong's 3 hatch 2 sunken defense.
No matter what, there's always the possibility that your opponent could have a heart attack in the booth, giving you time to land your burning CC, make an SCV, repair it, then make an army and make a comeback.
honestly though if youre in the OSL finals id rather be secure in knowing 'yea i for sure lost' rather than wishing for the rest of your career that you stayed a little longer
On June 27 2011 02:33 Grend wrote: God how I loved the one where he floated vs 4 pool. Sad to watch. He had a 0% comeback chance unless Jaedong got a stroke or something.
Hey, there's always the chance Jaedong accidentally tells his units to kill his hatchery.
Skimmed through this thread before, but I didn't notice how huge this list of games is. Some of the games are funny, whereas others are just facepalmingly embarrassing.
I personally understand Fantasy and why he does this.. I'd rather stay till the end and have no regrets then realizing that I could've possibly done something after gging prematurely.
On June 27 2011 08:01 Kalent wrote: I personally understand Fantasy and why he does this.. I'd rather stay till the end and have no regrets then realizing that I could've possibly done something after gging prematurely.
Well he does take it to BM heights...
I mean, hoping 1 goliath beats a whole fleet of carriers? Really?
Sorry for SC2 refference, but it's way better to GG when it's certain there isn't even 1% chance of winning, then having someone like IdrA that GG out of the winning game, czo he think's he's too far behind.
On June 27 2011 08:01 Kalent wrote: I personally understand Fantasy and why he does this.. I'd rather stay till the end and have no regrets then realizing that I could've possibly done something after gging prematurely.
Well he does take it to BM heights...
I mean, hoping 1 goliath beats a whole fleet of carriers? Really?
I'd rather Fantast gg 500 times than Idra gg once.
Has Fantasy ever actually come back from a huge deficit that normal people would gg out of? If he did even once, it's worth it.
On June 27 2011 08:01 Kalent wrote: I personally understand Fantasy and why he does this.. I'd rather stay till the end and have no regrets then realizing that I could've possibly done something after gging prematurely.
Well he does take it to BM heights...
I mean, hoping 1 goliath beats a whole fleet of carriers? Really?
I'd rather Fantast gg 500 times than Idra gg once.
Has Fantasy ever actually come back from a huge deficit that normal people would gg out of? If he did even once, it's worth it.
On June 27 2011 08:01 Kalent wrote: I personally understand Fantasy and why he does this.. I'd rather stay till the end and have no regrets then realizing that I could've possibly done something after gging prematurely.
Well he does take it to BM heights...
I mean, hoping 1 goliath beats a whole fleet of carriers? Really?
I'd rather Fantast gg 500 times than Idra gg once.
Has Fantasy ever actually come back from a huge deficit that normal people would gg out of? If he did even once, it's worth it.
yes
I'm not sure if I've seen this particular game before, but I remember Nuke criticizing Jaedong for trying to win a game with just mutalisks before.
I think the saddest part of my time in SC2 was the cynicism. I can't look at that game and think "Wow, what a comeback by Fantasy". I can only think "Wow, Jaedong threw that game away".
I love this thread , You know what they say... "Impossible is nothing " ... and i'm sure thats the mind state he has going into all of these games, I mean he is a top pro gamer... I personally really like fantasy, I dunno about his GG timing but I can't say I don't like the guy because of it
Fantasy knows better being a semi pro go player and how disrespectful it is not to end the game promptly when there is literally zero chance of winning. Shit like lifting buildings and trying to solo a group of carries with a goliath is bm.
On June 27 2011 08:01 Kalent wrote: I personally understand Fantasy and why he does this.. I'd rather stay till the end and have no regrets then realizing that I could've possibly done something after gging prematurely.
Well he does take it to BM heights...
I mean, hoping 1 goliath beats a whole fleet of carriers? Really?
I'd rather Fantast gg 500 times than Idra gg once.
Has Fantasy ever actually come back from a huge deficit that normal people would gg out of? If he did even once, it's worth it.
yes
At no point in that game would a serious Korean progamer leave, in Fantasy's position. Idra maybe, no one else. Since when have people left games because they're getting harassed? Bad example.
On June 27 2011 02:33 Grend wrote: God how I loved the one where he floated vs 4 pool. Sad to watch. He had a 0% comeback chance unless Jaedong got a stroke or something.
Hey, there's always the chance Jaedong accidentally tells his units to kill his hatchery.
to get eliminated, JD has to accidentally kill off his pool on top of the hatchery
On June 27 2011 02:33 Grend wrote: God how I loved the one where he floated vs 4 pool. Sad to watch. He had a 0% comeback chance unless Jaedong got a stroke or something.
Hey, there's always the chance Jaedong accidentally tells his units to kill his hatchery.
to get eliminated, JD has to accidentally kill off his pool on top of the hatchery
If the hatch was dead than either it would have been called a draw (zerglings can never kill the floating cc, and JD probably wasn't banking 300 min), or fantasy could have just took a nap in his booth, then float the CC to a new expo, repeat. When the lings don't follow, he knows JD fell asleep, and he wins!
On June 27 2011 02:33 Grend wrote: God how I loved the one where he floated vs 4 pool. Sad to watch. He had a 0% comeback chance unless Jaedong got a stroke or something.
Hey, there's always the chance Jaedong accidentally tells his units to kill his hatchery.
to get eliminated, JD has to accidentally kill off his pool on top of the hatchery
If the hatch was dead than either it would have been called a draw (zerglings can never kill the floating cc, and JD probably wasn't banking 300 min), or fantasy could have just took a nap in his booth, then float the CC to a new expo, repeat. When the lings don't follow, he knows JD fell asleep, and he wins!
if there are still larvaes before the hatch was taken down, he probably can still rebuild them (if there's enough minerals e.g 350++), and start mining off
edit: *at least 400 minerals* (morphing one drone to create hatchery, one more to start mining)
Wow, I actually feel bad for Fantasy after watching that VOD of him getting 4-pooled. I noticed that his facial expressions doesn't really change when he's playing and when he's losing, I feel so guilty for laughing him off
Mind vs Fantasy on Empire of the Sun: With NO units, just a CC and factory against Mind who floated his CC to fantasy's nat (LOL) with 5 SCVs mining and like 5 roaming vultures, fantasy decides that landing his buildings next to Mind was going to win the game somehow
edit: I laughed so hard at the banner, esp Fantasy's face and the floating CC. Thanks OP, you made my day!
On February 23 2011 01:19 mizU wrote: I enjoy players putting in a little effort I guess, rather than seeing them gg pre-emptively or prematurely.
I guess Fantasy's counterpart would be IdrA then ;D
I would try to defend Fantasy vs Jaehoon, but Jaehoon isn't that bad of a player anymore. Hmm...maybe Fantasy just has off days and doesn't gg right away? ^^;
On June 27 2011 16:49 kusto wrote: Now here's a question: Did Fantasy actually manage one time to make a comeback when he was in such a desperate situation? It would be funny, if not
On June 27 2011 08:01 Kalent wrote: I personally understand Fantasy and why he does this.. I'd rather stay till the end and have no regrets then realizing that I could've possibly done something after gging prematurely.
Well he does take it to BM heights...
I mean, hoping 1 goliath beats a whole fleet of carriers? Really?
I'd rather Fantast gg 500 times than Idra gg once.
Has Fantasy ever actually come back from a huge deficit that normal people would gg out of? If he did even once, it's worth it.
On August 07 2009 19:52 SaveYourSavior wrote: Summary of this game
Jaedong outplays Fantasy like crazy
Tank army moves out
Fantasy wins
I didn't watch the VOD but guessing from the date, it's the SPL finals, Fantasy v JD match right?
That game had a lot of clutch saves from Fantasy but he was never in a position where he had 90% lost. This thread is about the times when Fantasy had 90-120% definitely lost the game but proceeded to do random crap until gging.
On February 23 2011 01:19 mizU wrote: I enjoy players putting in a little effort I guess, rather than seeing them gg pre-emptively or prematurely.
I guess Fantasy's counterpart would be IdrA then ;D
I would try to defend Fantasy vs Jaehoon, but Jaehoon isn't that bad of a player anymore. Hmm...maybe Fantasy just has off days and doesn't gg right away? ^^;
Holy shit give this man a prophet trophy.
what, idra has done early ggs long before 2011, nothing prophetic about that
On June 27 2011 16:49 kusto wrote: Now here's a question: Did Fantasy actually manage one time to make a comeback when he was in such a desperate situation? It would be funny, if not
Fantasy vs ZerO on Fighting Spirit in WCG 2010 Korea Single drop decides the game
On June 27 2011 16:49 kusto wrote: Now here's a question: Did Fantasy actually manage one time to make a comeback when he was in such a desperate situation? It would be funny, if not
On February 23 2011 01:31 AppleTart wrote: Fantasy has some of the worst GG timing out everyone. I'm trying to think of someone else who has bad GG timing.
On June 27 2011 16:49 kusto wrote: Now here's a question: Did Fantasy actually manage one time to make a comeback when he was in such a desperate situation? It would be funny, if not
really? fantasy's situation in that game was nothing like the games i gave as examples.
If Fantasy didnt win this game, I'm pretty sure it would be one of your examples... just watch 10:55- Fanta lost tons of SCV and marines, Zero secured 3rd, fantasy not made any damage to Zerg economy for ages. Not as bad as most of your games, but comparable with many games, when gg-timing is called "bad" (IMHO Flash vs fantasy you gave is not that bad).
And BTW you guys dont give a shit about fantasy chances when talking about GG-timing. For you guys game lost in 90% is only when fantasy have lost.
1. Regain composure, mental strength, confidence. 2. Buy time. 3. Annoy opponent. 4. Gain more information for your opponents tendencies or patterns. etc
On July 04 2011 21:47 rareh wrote: Haters gonna hate.
There are lots of reasons to gg late.
1. Regain composure, mental strength, confidence. 2. Buy time. 3. Annoy opponent. 4. Gain more information for your opponents tendencies or patterns. etc
1. Proleague match that doesn't affect anything 2. For what? 3. Mission accomplished 4. Trying to see how long it takes for your opponent to start building manner hatcheries?
Wow so glad I found this thread. I hate fantasy with a huge passion(In fact I hate him more than kal even though he plays man race Terran ) and it'll feel good to watch vods of him getting crushed. ^^
I think this is kinda somewhat being blown out of proportion. You know who also takes a long time to leave, even when it's obvious that they have lost? Slayers_Boxer. My Idol. Yet every time he does it the announcers say something along the lines of " oh he is taking a moment to analyze the game in his head" or "he is regaining his composure for the next match".
On December 31 2011 03:50 SlayerOfYou wrote: I think this is kinda somewhat being blown out of proportion. You know who also takes a long time to leave, even when it's obvious that they have lost? Slayers_Boxer. My Idol. Yet every time he does it the announcers say something along the lines of " oh he is taking a moment to analyze the game in his head" or "he is regaining his composure for the next match".
Yeah, fans are starting to get annoyed by boxer doing this too though (this is in sc2, idk if people loved seeing him float buildings in bw, sorry not that big on it). If you want to regain composure ask for a 5 min break, don't float all your buildings when you have 0 supply, gees.
On December 31 2011 03:50 SlayerOfYou wrote: I think this is kinda somewhat being blown out of proportion. You know who also takes a long time to leave, even when it's obvious that they have lost? Slayers_Boxer. My Idol. Yet every time he does it the announcers say something along the lines of " oh he is taking a moment to analyze the game in his head" or "he is regaining his composure for the next match".
There is a difference between doing it in a BoX where X > 1 and then doing it in your regular proleague where you play 1 match...
I figured someone would say this so i should have added it before, but this was in a situation no different. Boxer was out of the tournament, it was some MLG although im not sure which one. They said he was "regaining his composure." Anyway I feel like it's a whole lot better to delay your gg then not to say gg at all. Besides you gotta think long term, some players use their defeats as motivation for training. Maybe that is what he was doing, of course this is only speculation.
On December 31 2011 03:50 SlayerOfYou wrote: I think this is kinda somewhat being blown out of proportion. You know who also takes a long time to leave, even when it's obvious that they have lost? Slayers_Boxer. My Idol. Yet every time he does it the announcers say something along the lines of " oh he is taking a moment to analyze the game in his head" or "he is regaining his composure for the next match".
IDK if it's "out of proportion". Players who do unusual things in any competition get noticed: fantasy takes an unusual amount of time to admit defeat, for good or bad. This thread really isn't long or drama-filled, compared to some things on these boards.
Any of you guys know of game theory? Progamers CAN'T leave asap when they are behind because they need a balanced "leaving range" for their careers. If someone left the game whenever he LOOKED clearly dead, their opponents would know whenever they don't leave that there is something fishy behind that they are not aware off (carriers, bcs, hidden exp, etc)
On December 31 2011 09:00 GoTuNk! wrote: Any of you guys know of game theory? Progamers CAN'T leave asap when they are behind because they need a balanced "leaving range" for their careers. If someone left the game whenever he LOOKED clearly dead, their opponents would know whenever they don't leave that there is something fishy behind that they are not aware off (carriers, bcs, hidden exp, etc)
On December 31 2011 03:50 SlayerOfYou wrote: I think this is kinda somewhat being blown out of proportion. You know who also takes a long time to leave, even when it's obvious that they have lost? Slayers_Boxer. My Idol. Yet every time he does it the announcers say something along the lines of " oh he is taking a moment to analyze the game in his head" or "he is regaining his composure for the next match".
Honestly the reason this gets blown out of proportion is because whenever the words "fantasy gg timing" are uttered it is 90% of the time NOT a "fantasy gg timing"
On December 31 2011 09:00 GoTuNk! wrote: Any of you guys know of game theory? Progamers CAN'T leave asap when they are behind because they need a balanced "leaving range" for their careers. If someone left the game whenever he LOOKED clearly dead, their opponents would know whenever they don't leave that there is something fishy behind that they are not aware off (carriers, bcs, hidden exp, etc)
I think this would be a really good reason.
in case of fantasy it would have to be hidden, secretly abandoning of freshly build mining bases by his opponent though ;]
On December 31 2011 09:00 GoTuNk! wrote: Any of you guys know of game theory? Progamers CAN'T leave asap when they are behind because they need a balanced "leaving range" for their careers. If someone left the game whenever he LOOKED clearly dead, their opponents would know whenever they don't leave that there is something fishy behind that they are not aware off (carriers, bcs, hidden exp, etc)
On December 31 2011 09:00 GoTuNk! wrote: Any of you guys know of game theory? Progamers CAN'T leave asap when they are behind because they need a balanced "leaving range" for their careers. If someone left the game whenever he LOOKED clearly dead, their opponents would know whenever they don't leave that there is something fishy behind that they are not aware off (carriers, bcs, hidden exp, etc)
i agree with you, and i hope all progamers start to do Fantasy gg timings
On December 31 2011 03:50 SlayerOfYou wrote: I think this is kinda somewhat being blown out of proportion. You know who also takes a long time to leave, even when it's obvious that they have lost? Slayers_Boxer. My Idol. Yet every time he does it the announcers say something along the lines of " oh he is taking a moment to analyze the game in his head" or "he is regaining his composure for the next match".
Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi.
Fantasy might just be good enough to get away with it, but if a B-class player started doing it it would get old very fast.
I remember when IdrA and Incontrol were commentating GSTL one night. IdrA said progamers tend to leave late in proelague / teamleague games since they don't want to "let their teamates down" etc....which is "retarded" according to him.
On December 31 2011 09:00 GoTuNk! wrote: Any of you guys know of game theory? Progamers CAN'T leave asap when they are behind because they need a balanced "leaving range" for their careers. If someone left the game whenever he LOOKED clearly dead, their opponents would know whenever they don't leave that there is something fishy behind that they are not aware off (carriers, bcs, hidden exp, etc)
There we go. Now can people stop bitching about Fantasy's GG timing?
On December 31 2011 09:00 GoTuNk! wrote: Any of you guys know of game theory? Progamers CAN'T leave asap when they are behind because they need a balanced "leaving range" for their careers. If someone left the game whenever he LOOKED clearly dead, their opponents would know whenever they don't leave that there is something fishy behind that they are not aware off (carriers, bcs, hidden exp, etc)
There we go. Now can people stop bitching about Fantasy's GG timing?
This is why floating ccs when zerg has entire map with spread overlords is a good idea.
On December 31 2011 11:54 ppshchik wrote: I remember when IdrA and Incontrol were commentating GSTL one night. IdrA said progamers tend to leave late in proelague / teamleague games since they don't want to "let their teamates down" etc....which is "retarded" according to him.
But doing in individual leagues is just...
And leaving games where you winning or not lost yet is so smart.
On December 31 2011 09:00 GoTuNk! wrote: Any of you guys know of game theory? Progamers CAN'T leave asap when they are behind because they need a balanced "leaving range" for their careers. If someone left the game whenever he LOOKED clearly dead, their opponents would know whenever they don't leave that there is something fishy behind that they are not aware off (carriers, bcs, hidden exp, etc)
There we go. Now can people stop bitching about Fantasy's GG timing?
The fact that your opponent would recall scouts into your base indicates that they know that you've lost. Let's face it, there are circumstances when you have lost and both players know it. Flying your CC away after a 4pool? That game vs. Flash where he was on 2 bases. Flash knew the rough timing of mining out your main and nat as well.
I might as well take the opportunity to point out two of Fantasy's recent games where he persevered despite being at quite the disadvantage and came back to take the win:
Fantasy vs Reality on Sniper Ridge
(actually, when the ref paused I thought Fantasy was definitely toast) Fantasy vs Skyhigh on Jade
On January 07 2012 13:39 Zona wrote: I might as well take the opportunity to point out two of Fantasy's recent games where he persevered despite being at quite the disadvantage and came back to take the win:
On January 07 2012 14:50 taitanik wrote: this is sad, the guy fights till he has no units left and people complain about gg timings and im amazed by his fighting spirit
His fighting spirit is impressive, and I certainly respect that. People hate on it because they feel that he prolongs games unnecessarily when the chance of victory is essentially nothing. For his opponents, it can be frustrating trying to kill him off even though you have already won, he makes you continue to play.
It's what makes Fantasy different from many other players.
i dont think you can comeback from a "fantasy gg timing " scenario vs a good player unless its tvt only 2 cases that i have seen coming back from an impossible cases were (that are not tvt) jaedong vs lomo in gom 2 jaedong had 1 base and a half 15 drones and a group of mnm with firebat in his nat lomo on 3 bases still dont know what happend there 2nd case saviour vs TT but that was a case of TT fucking up so bad and still savior could only win it by destroying all of TT buildings cause TT had too much of an army to be overcome ( i am talking zerlings vs reavers + archons case ) anyone else knows other games where its def gg fantasy timing case and the guy sticks and eventually wins? no tvt and both players are pro players
I fail to see why people trash on Fantasy's latest TvT against Skyhigh. He wasn't in a pinch at all. Fantasy had the high ground advantage and that is not something you take less into consideration since this is TvT. He had the good position and he was far from losing. Skyhigh lost this because he was carelessly throwing tanks against sieged up-hill tanks and losing a ton of Vultures while tip-toeing on the side and being destroyed by the same tanks. This is more or less Skyhigh's failure to GG in time when he had 2 lower main base mining while Fanta had the high-ground expansions.
On January 07 2012 16:29 pvzvt wrote: anyone else knows other games where its def gg fantasy timing case and the guy sticks and eventually wins? no tvt and both players are pro players
Firebathero vs Savior 1 base Terran vs Zerg that has all the map.
That's the Boxer mentality reaching the younger SKT1 players. It's the opposite of the "Idra GG". Personally I like the "never surrender" mentality better (unless it's pure bad manner and being a sore loser).
It's interesting that Fanta gg doesn't happen when he's in the center spotlight - i.e OSL Playoffs, etc... Peculiar given he prepares an insane amount for any of those games and thus equally unwilling to give in.
Or maybe through that preparation he understands more quickly that he's screwed or wants to psych up for the next match... Oh you walking paradox.
Well, looks like I got my to-do list when I'm done work. Going to watch all those VODs (probably can't finish them all tonight, at the rate Fantasy is GG-ing LOL)
I actually would respect people like him - it shows fighting spirit and sometimes you opponent leans back a bit beause he thinks he has it giving you a chance to come back!
Some of these VODs aren't fair. Even progamers cannot fully predict how much money / units / bases their opponent has, and their opponent probably tries to conceal as much information as possible until the decisive confrontation. Accusing Fantasy for some of these gg timings as an observer with full map vision is a bit pretentious.
hmm necro Thread. I think an dedicated sc2 Thread is needed cause oldschool bw fans surely dont want to read about sc2. Maybe someone can place an link to this thread here in the sc2 one?
On April 11 2013 22:46 cutler wrote: hmm necro Thread. I think an dedicated sc2 Thread is needed cause oldschool bw fans surely dont want to read about sc2. Maybe someone can place an link to this thread here in the sc2 one?
This thread is just as unrelated to Broodwar as "Nada's Body's" thread, which is also in the BW section.
Are you crazy ? Never post a sc2 related things here, BW hardcore fans will kill you. It's a dangerous place here, I'm almost afraid to just read the thread of the section haha :p
On April 11 2013 22:46 cutler wrote: hmm necro Thread. I think an dedicated sc2 Thread is needed cause oldschool bw fans surely dont want to read about sc2. Maybe someone can place an link to this thread here in the sc2 one?
This thread is just as unrelated to Broodwar as "Nada's Body's" thread, which is also in the BW section.
unrelated? Excuse me but I don't think it's unrelated at all. Fantasy was a bw player and thread was made while he played bw. It's not "Fantasy GG-timing while playing soccer". You know why? Since the thread is in BW-section so it's about brood war.
Can we not restart the BW hyper-elitist thread thing? It finally settled down, who cares. The thread is Fantasy GG timings, so it's on topic. Don't start a crusade against every SC2 related post in the BW section. If it's in the wrong section, the mods will handle it.
Besides, it was a good thread res, I missed these threads for a long time, now time to go find Jaehoon's PvX thread lol.
On April 11 2013 23:52 Torenhire wrote: Besides, it was a good thread res, I missed these threads for a long time, now time to go find Jaehoon's PvX thread lol.
I just wanted to say that his efforts to stay in games and watch himself get to 4 supply almost paid off. Besides, if someone watches the thread, watches some of the VODs and falls in love with BW, that's positive.
On February 23 2011 02:16 emucxg wrote: fuuuu.... alffla such a fantasy anti-fan!! haha
:D
by the way, is Fantasy coming back or what? (googled his come back is how I got here, did not bother trying any other links)
GO Fantasy.
He finished already his military but instead of joining BW scene he continues to play SC2. Well, he knows better although I wish he could comeback! He has potential to become the best terran after FlaSh and Last.
I really struggle understanding his decision. There is no way he gets more money for playing SC2, and the "amount of fun" is probably arguable considering he spent his best days playing SC:BW.
Someone also mentioned that there was a ton of hate from Korean scene when he made that decision?
wanted to ask smth about his SC2 career since this thread seems to be somehow connected to his recent games... but then i remembered, that we do not like rts over here.
Is fantasy big in sc2? Did he achieve something in a tourney? Or is his stream huge? I would imagine if he played bw he would get thousands of viewers instantly, with his awesome aggressive harass style and if memory not deceives me, he had a nice character. I guess I am wondering why is he sticking to sc2; maybe he prefers sc2's gameplay to bw, if so, nothing wrong with that.
Fantasy loses his main to a zerg that's up 30 supply, floats his main CC, and tries to build a starport and armory in his natural to get a valkyrie out
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/alffla/fantasyGG2.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/alffla/fantasygg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://api.ning.com/files/quphhmBdTIEX3rlIma9U3fROB-FrSTQpHSa0dU6*C*fuXS9evMhQfMVg0ZXTQmWmZcfmB45c-DUuTEvF1gns*ba2SuoZ07L*/GalxyQuest_Still_PK_2029.jpg)
I remember the days when people were actually surprised JD lost 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jTyVs.jpg)
