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Korea Swept In Illegal Starcraft League Gambling - Page 31

Forum Index > BW General
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years
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Costa Rica216 Posts
April 12 2010 20:36 GMT
#601
In shitstorms like the one thats developing currently lists like the one posted, where TaekBaekLee are mentioned, and many other a listers are too are expected.. even when some gamers are sent to jail and what not i do not believe the scene will crumble. Action being taken to deal with the problem will be seen as a step forward, knowing that this goes on and that nothing is being done would probably be detrimental.

Its not like people will stop liking BW, as people did not stop liking football. What sports mean within identity and cultural dynamics, even when SCBW aint the biggest sport ever, are much more complicated than just corruption=fail.
"Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk Cafe! He's the next Jaedong, baby!" Through high and low, bisu boy, through high and low.
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
April 12 2010 20:36 GMT
#602
On April 13 2010 05:26 TheMango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2010 05:22 JodoYodo wrote:
On April 13 2010 05:20 Zzoram wrote:
On April 13 2010 00:21 KinosJourney2 wrote:
On April 12 2010 22:03 lolaloc wrote:
On April 12 2010 21:57 SuperArc wrote:
On April 12 2010 21:56 F.A.O.D. wrote:
On April 12 2010 21:50 Antisocialmunky wrote:
You know they should hold a special tournament for all everyone eventually convicted in a prison. I'd watch, there are some pretty good players in there.


lmao yeah

and the winner should get reduced jail time


or a single cell.

Imagine the epic games we would get.

Okay punks, here's the rules. Champion doesn't get behind bars. All matches will be Bo3 until finals which will be a grueling Bo9. Who's up for this challenge?


Even though im really sad about the news the replies keeps making me laugh.
I really hope Starcraft won't end up like Warcraft 3 after that map rigging incident


Could anyone provide a lot more detail about the WC3 incident?

Tournament programmer rigged the maps to favour a certain race by having other races deal less damage.


From what I remember, it was something a little more subtle than that. I think they adjusted orc unit/building build times and possibly nerfed NE in someway. I think that was when NE/Moon was dominating.

The first few pages of this thread contain an explanation of this. The next few pages contain yet another explanation, and so on and so forth. This must be at least the seventh time this has come up today. Read the thread, people.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
ICCup.Tesla
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States841 Posts
April 12 2010 20:37 GMT
#603
On April 13 2010 05:33 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2010 04:37 ICCup.Tesla wrote:
On April 13 2010 04:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:
They mind as well make all the leaked replays public



True..but if they do that, it will show who is the accused. If I think I understand this situation at all, they want to hide the names and players as best as possible and allow them to save face. This is an Asian belief... If you dishonor them, it will be very bad...and sometimes...saving their face is worse than to dishonor them...I maybe wording this wrong I ask for forgiveness if that is the case, however...They will try to keep it was quite as possible. I am sure of this much.

@ De4ngus & Carefree Me: Thanks guys ^^.


what are you talking about



Since you didn't read the first time, please read it this time:

I said: "True..but if they do that, it will show who is the accused. If I think I understand this situation at all, they want to hide the names and players as best as possible and allow them to save face. This is an Asian belief... If you dishonor them, it will be very bad...and sometimes...saving their face is worse than to dishonor them...I maybe wording this wrong I ask for forgiveness if that is the case, however...They will try to keep it was quite as possible. I am sure of this much."



On April 13 2010 05:32 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2010 05:24 Zzoram wrote:
On April 13 2010 05:22 JodoYodo wrote:
On April 13 2010 05:20 Zzoram wrote:
On April 13 2010 00:21 KinosJourney2 wrote:
On April 12 2010 22:03 lolaloc wrote:
On April 12 2010 21:57 SuperArc wrote:
On April 12 2010 21:56 F.A.O.D. wrote:
On April 12 2010 21:50 Antisocialmunky wrote:
You know they should hold a special tournament for all everyone eventually convicted in a prison. I'd watch, there are some pretty good players in there.


lmao yeah

and the winner should get reduced jail time


or a single cell.

Imagine the epic games we would get.

Okay punks, here's the rules. Champion doesn't get behind bars. All matches will be Bo3 until finals which will be a grueling Bo9. Who's up for this challenge?


Even though im really sad about the news the replies keeps making me laugh.
I really hope Starcraft won't end up like Warcraft 3 after that map rigging incident


Could anyone provide a lot more detail about the WC3 incident?

Tournament programmer rigged the maps to favour a certain race by having other races deal less damage.


What was the fallout of such an event? I know WC3 was never that popular to begin with in Korea, so did it actually hurt it much?

It was actually the most successful competitive RTS since BW, and was growing in popularity. The mapfixing scandal made it a joke and it just died.

Top players throwing matches due to bribes from illegal gambling sites is about 100 times worse than minor maprigging. Especially since Kespa knew about it since they had a meeting with the gambling sites, and tried to do an underhanded deal to make it go away.

Sort of wondering how legit Bisu's break was, or Jaedong being "sick" with enteritis.Especially since savior had a similar excuse (knee injury?) and I think its pretty clear at this point that was a total bullshit coverup.

How deep does this go, player wise, and what is Kespa's involvement?

Black day for Starcraft =[


Just reading some of those names makes me want to cry...However as I said earlier...its no surprise that Kespa may try to cover it up and make it seem less than it is or make it sound like they handled it.
@DjTesla ~ CEO of GoSc, GoLoL, GoD3 & GoSmite ~ @The_GoSc ~ @TheGoLoL ~ The greatest glory of man, is not in never falling, but in rising after each time he has fallen.
PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
April 12 2010 20:38 GMT
#604
On April 13 2010 05:36 years wrote:
In shitstorms like the one thats developing currently lists like the one posted, where TaekBaekLee are mentioned, and many other a listers are too are expected.. even when some gamers are sent to jail and what not i do not believe the scene will crumble. Action being taken to deal with the problem will be seen as a step forward, knowing that this goes on and that nothing is being done would probably be detrimental.

Its not like people will stop liking BW, as people did not stop liking football. What sports mean within identity and cultural dynamics, even when SCBW aint the biggest sport ever, are much more complicated than just corruption=fail.

It depends on the size of the scandal and who is implicated. The steroids scandal nearly ruined baseball in America.

Considering 2 of the biggest stars of the game, and one of the most beloved old pros are implicated, that's pretty bad. With SC2 coming soon, this kind of questionable integrity could finish Brood War competition for good.
ICCup.Tesla
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States841 Posts
April 12 2010 20:39 GMT
#605
On April 13 2010 05:35 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2010 05:31 ICCup.Tesla wrote:
On April 13 2010 05:28 Zzoram wrote:
On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher.


Foreigner scene has been tainted by maphackers winning cash prizes on Internet events, since people can't afford to fly to 1 location to play under supervision.


Eh...this doesnt matter if they are supervised...Didn't you read the others were involved, not just gamers? So this included coaches and so forth..which means even if they were in one spot it could still be tainted.

This is much more high-level stuff than maphacking; I mean there is probably Korean mob ties to this, as organized crime almost always has a hand in illegal gambling and sports fixing.

The biggest problem is that Kespa's contract rules and handling of free agency have made it so that taking these bribes sounds a hell of a lot more appealing to overworked or underpaid players.


True but once again...it wouldnt matter if people are supervised or not..I guess thats my point...regardless this is a sad, sad day.
@DjTesla ~ CEO of GoSc, GoLoL, GoD3 & GoSmite ~ @The_GoSc ~ @TheGoLoL ~ The greatest glory of man, is not in never falling, but in rising after each time he has fallen.
Neak
Profile Joined March 2009
United Kingdom124 Posts
April 12 2010 20:41 GMT
#606
Of course they will do that or they will atleast attempt to do that, but the damage is already done. Also, there is no smoke without fire.. I really wanna see those greedy f.ckers go down.
Tristan
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada566 Posts
April 12 2010 20:41 GMT
#607
now you gotta think

was the blackout

really a black out?
http://Zangano431.tumblr.com/
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
April 12 2010 20:42 GMT
#608
Tesla I was making a half joke about the replays.

The leaked replays are replays of the accused's teammates so I doubt any of them can be used as direct evidence.

Not releasing the names of the accused has nothing to do with saving face, it is simply in compliance with human rights laws.
MrMoose
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada176 Posts
April 12 2010 20:44 GMT
#609
On April 13 2010 05:41 TheElitists wrote:
now you gotta think

was the blackout

really a black out?


I can just imagine some crazy dude being like "omg i got 50k riding on this game and flash is losing i've gotta do something" as he reaches for his wire cutters
When in doubt, lubricate!
years
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Costa Rica216 Posts
April 12 2010 20:45 GMT
#610
The thing with Kespa knowing is that you cant be sure that going publicly would have been the best way to hadle this. The extent of matchrigging and the organizations that endorse it and handle it makes it a very hard problem to tackle. Gambling itself is ilegal in Korea, the government knows about it but simply making something ilegal doesnt mean that it will vanish; governments may choose to dialouge with the organizations that promote gamble because dismantling them might me too complex.

Similarly, Kespa might have chosen to find an altarnate way to deal with this. Wether they were implicated in profiting and endorsing this is another thing altogether.
"Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk Cafe! He's the next Jaedong, baby!" Through high and low, bisu boy, through high and low.
Setz3R
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States455 Posts
April 12 2010 20:46 GMT
#611
Soooo, no longer a late April Fool's joke?

In that case, back to my previous statement, Starcraft in korean jails? I can smell inmate pro-league team mmhmmm!!!
twitch.tv/setz3r
PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
April 12 2010 20:47 GMT
#612
On April 13 2010 05:42 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Tesla I was making a half joke about the replays.

The leaked replays are replays of the accused's teammates so I doubt any of them can be used as direct evidence.

Not releasing the names of the accused has nothing to do with saving face, it is simply in compliance with human rights laws.

I'm unaware of how korean laws work; if they are formally charged will we know? Or in Korea do they never reveal the names, even if they are found guilty?

If so, how convenient for Kespa, famous players can go take "breaks", have "surgery", or go on vacations (to jail) and they can sweep it right under the rug.
MrMoose
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada176 Posts
April 12 2010 20:48 GMT
#613
On April 13 2010 05:46 Legendary- wrote:
Soooo, no longer a late April Fool's joke?

In that case, back to my previous statement, Starcraft in korean jails? I can smell inmate pro-league team mmhmmm!!!


A team that ACE will be competitive against, perhaps...

Given the names listed, probably not immediately, but I can't imagine they'd get much practise time in there
When in doubt, lubricate!
PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
April 12 2010 20:49 GMT
#614
On April 13 2010 05:45 years wrote:
The thing with Kespa knowing is that you cant be sure that going publicly would have been the best way to hadle this. The extent of matchrigging and the organizations that endorse it and handle it makes it a very hard problem to tackle. Gambling itself is ilegal in Korea, the government knows about it but simply making something ilegal doesnt mean that it will vanish; governments may choose to dialouge with the organizations that promote gamble because dismantling them might me too complex.

Similarly, Kespa might have chosen to find an altarnate way to deal with this. Wether they were implicated in profiting and endorsing this is another thing altogether.

They knew it was going on; why else would they bring in the gambling site reps?

They chose not to say anything because it would look really bad.

But what looks worse is when the media releases it and it looks like you've been covering it up.
Tristan
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada566 Posts
April 12 2010 20:49 GMT
#615
On April 13 2010 05:46 Legendary- wrote:
Soooo, no longer a late April Fool's joke?

In that case, back to my previous statement, Starcraft in korean jails? I can smell inmate pro-league team mmhmmm!!!

Based on the list of people accused it would be a pretty good team too.
http://Zangano431.tumblr.com/
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3548 Posts
April 12 2010 20:50 GMT
#616
JD? Wow, I can sort of see it though, because sometimes when he loses he doesn't seem to care and sometimes it takes him to the point of tears.
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
ICCup.Tesla
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-12 20:53:19
April 12 2010 20:52 GMT
#617
On April 13 2010 05:42 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Tesla I was making a half joke about the replays.

The leaked replays are replays of the accused's teammates so I doubt any of them can be used as direct evidence.

Not releasing the names of the accused has nothing to do with saving face, it is simply in compliance with human rights laws.


I never said it would do anything to save face...accept that they have not openly admitted who has done something wrong, thus this is saving those people's faces...even if just a little.

On April 13 2010 05:44 MrMoose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2010 05:41 TheElitists wrote:
now you gotta think

was the blackout

really a black out?


I can just imagine some crazy dude being like "omg i got 50k riding on this game and flash is losing i've gotta do something" as he reaches for his wire cutters


I do not think that would be the case...I mean...consider the facts...they were both pretty pissed about how it ended. So I would say those were legit games and that was a legit match...though the black out could have been done without their knowledge, the chances are slim to none that it was a planned black out.

On April 13 2010 05:45 years wrote:
The thing with Kespa knowing is that you cant be sure that going publicly would have been the best way to hadle this. The extent of matchrigging and the organizations that endorse it and handle it makes it a very hard problem to tackle. Gambling itself is ilegal in Korea, the government knows about it but simply making something ilegal doesnt mean that it will vanish; governments may choose to dialouge with the organizations that promote gamble because dismantling them might me too complex.

Similarly, Kespa might have chosen to find an altarnate way to deal with this. Wether they were implicated in profiting and endorsing this is another thing altogether.


Question is how will they deal with it? This is pretty bad.


On April 13 2010 05:47 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2010 05:42 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Tesla I was making a half joke about the replays.

The leaked replays are replays of the accused's teammates so I doubt any of them can be used as direct evidence.

Not releasing the names of the accused has nothing to do with saving face, it is simply in compliance with human rights laws.

I'm unaware of how korean laws work; if they are formally charged will we know? Or in Korea do they never reveal the names, even if they are found guilty?

If so, how convenient for Kespa, famous players can go take "breaks", have "surgery", or go on vacations (to jail) and they can sweep it right under the rug.



Maybe some of those are legit and not just ment to be stuff to help sweep this under the rug.. :/
@DjTesla ~ CEO of GoSc, GoLoL, GoD3 & GoSmite ~ @The_GoSc ~ @TheGoLoL ~ The greatest glory of man, is not in never falling, but in rising after each time he has fallen.
years
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Costa Rica216 Posts
April 12 2010 20:53 GMT
#618
Another thing that seems strange is to asume that SC2 will benefit from this, if these gamers, coaches, managers, etc, then the whole institution of esports will be harmed. Not only the viewership may choose to abandon the sport, sponsors will doubt their partaking in this.

If the current institution of esports, which means kespa, sponsors, channels, etc, needs to be reformulated, sc2 will have a great difficulty at it.
"Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk Cafe! He's the next Jaedong, baby!" Through high and low, bisu boy, through high and low.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
April 12 2010 20:53 GMT
#619
No Tesla, they haven't outed anyone because of laws, not a cultural value you have no clue about.
ICCup.Tesla
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States841 Posts
April 12 2010 20:54 GMT
#620
On April 13 2010 05:53 years wrote:
Another thing that seems strange is to asume that SC2 will benefit from this, if these gamers, coaches, managers, etc, then the whole institution of esports will be harmed. Not only the viewership may choose to abandon the sport, sponsors will doubt their partaking in this.

If the current institution of esports, which means kespa, sponsors, channels, etc, needs to be reformulated, sc2 will have a great difficulty at it.


Unless Blizzard backs a group trying to do a league of their own...at that point...where would Kespa be? Fixing their stuff while Blizzard takes back their game with help from who ever, whatever in however a way.
@DjTesla ~ CEO of GoSc, GoLoL, GoD3 & GoSmite ~ @The_GoSc ~ @TheGoLoL ~ The greatest glory of man, is not in never falling, but in rising after each time he has fallen.
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