eSTRO vs GosI[Terran] - TvZ

On January 12 2010 15:04 LuckyFool wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

edit: Artosis by any chance do you know how old GosI[Terran] is? It says his age is unkown when I click his TSL link. Just wondering because you mentioned it's his dream to be a progamer, I wonder how realistic that could be. I know he's new to the scene so I'm guessing 16-18?

On January 12 2010 15:19 KawaiiRice wrote:


Juan is 16.

Yeahhhh KawaiiRice trick
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 12 2010 15:21 LuckyFool wrote:
thanks Artosis.

On January 12 2010 15:19 KawaiiRice wrote:


Juan is 16.

Yeahhhh KawaiiRice trick
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 12 2010 16:02 ZeroCartin wrote:
GGs

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 12 2010 16:16 meeple wrote:
Thanks for sharing Artosis. Well played games, + Show Spoiler +

On January 12 2010 16:59 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
As QuakerOats said, his opponent was actually fairly impressive.

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 12 2010 19:59 AttackZerg wrote:
Artosis you are going out of your way to make this guy very famous and give him alot of oppurtunity inside of the community.

Please pick 2 or 3 replays of him that can be called good unamamously and post them.

Otherwise this poor kid is going to just continuously get shit on because of how much you hype him to be good and his lack of results proving otherwise ....

On January 12 2010 20:43 IdrA wrote:

he got 2nd in asl, and while people consider it a joke because of the lack of coverage and the batshit insane guy alot of good players still play it. he beat kolll and xiaozi in bo5's in it, dunno who else he played.

On January 12 2010 20:54 IdrA wrote:
all foreigners suck, its relative

On January 12 2010 20:43 IdrA wrote:

he got 2nd in asl, and while people consider it a joke because of the lack of coverage and the batshit insane guy alot of good players still play it. he beat kolll and xiaozi in bo5's in it, dunno who else he played.

On January 12 2010 22:05 Oystein wrote:
Really cool that you hook up foreigners with these opportunities Artosis.

About the games it was a really hard choke from gosi terran here Sure he did play vs a good opponent, but he made so many awful sloppy mistakes through the games that can`t be contributed to his opponent being good, like idle scvs everywhere, sending all his SCVs on gas during mutaharass then don`t put them back on minerals, horrible spreads vs low amount of lurkers both games etc. Hopefully we can see him play at his best during TSL at least, because he can obviously play way better than this from personal experience vs him on Iccup.

On January 12 2010 22:05 Oystein wrote:
Really cool that you hook up foreigners with these opportunities Artosis.

About the games it was a really hard choke from gosi terran here Sure he did play vs a good opponent, but he made so many awful sloppy mistakes through the games that can`t be contributed to his opponent being good, like idle scvs everywhere, sending all his SCVs on gas during mutaharass then don`t put them back on minerals, horrible spreads vs low amount of lurkers both games etc. Hopefully we can see him play at his best during TSL at least, because he can obviously play way better than this from personal experience vs him on Iccup.

On January 12 2010 16:24 canucks12 wrote:
I think that we need some GosI[Terran] vs. GosI[Flying].

On January 12 2010 23:05 kulik- wrote:
flash has played at age of 14 finale of osl? or how old he was?

On January 13 2010 00:51 Zozma wrote:
That's like saying someone sucks at chess because they aren't as good as Gary Kasparov.

On January 12 2010 20:54 IdrA wrote:
all foreigners suck, its relative

On January 13 2010 00:43 KizZBG wrote:

This please. We need to find out who is the better GosI.

On January 13 2010 06:07 bLueSkY) wrote:
hey can you guys give him a break?
he was probably nervous, hes gotten A on ICCUP which isnt exactly easy (and he mostly plays koreans afaik) and people are bashing him saying hes horrible.
lets wait and see his other games before we judge him..

On January 13 2010 07:22 jalstar wrote:
I think this is more of a way to advertise GosI[Terran] to eSTRO than a benefit for the foreign community, as those were slightly disappointing games.

It feels like Artosis is acting as Terran's agent almost, trying to get him a spot on a pro team. That's probably why Tastosis is commentating his matchup over others in TSL, to sort of use as an audition tape if he's successful.

On January 13 2010 07:26 Foucault wrote:
The first game was very bad by Terran. So many odd mistakes; forgetting medics, sloppy micro/macro etc. I dunno, I havent seen much of him besides this. I guess he is nervous or something, otherwise he just isn't good enough.

On January 13 2010 07:25 NiGoL wrote:


If so, why not cheer for him? if Terran wants to struggle to become good and join a pro team, why not let him?

On January 12 2010 20:43 IdrA wrote:

he got 2nd in asl, and while people consider it a joke because of the lack of coverage and the batshit insane guy alot of good players still play it. he beat kolll and xiaozi in bo5's in it, dunno who else he played.

On January 13 2010 09:53 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:


The problem with ASL is that we haven't seen the replays. He might've just held off 6 ling all-ins for all we know.

On January 13 2010 10:08 SoL[9] wrote:
One side games but still cool to watch foreigner vs korean :D

Off topic

Hmm he wants to be progamer? For real?
He not even can decide a what clan he should take he always jumping in clan into other clan but he knows for sure that he wants to be progamer???

Some one plz try to help me understand his mind ^^

On January 13 2010 09:53 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:


The problem with ASL is that we haven't seen the replays. He might've just held off 6 ling all-ins for all we know.

However, Artosis has a knack for picking up on talent that we usually don't see at first. He kept talking about Idra for months while he was going through that rough period, and now look at what we have - a foreigner destroying machine. I'm going to give this kid the benefit of the doubt that he has potential that is just waiting to shine through. Hopefully TSL will show us some solid results.

On January 13 2010 10:25 IdrA wrote:
because the two things are entirely unrelated?

On January 13 2010 11:24 StRyKeR wrote:
I know Artosis likes Terran, but I wanted to see more shots of the Zerg base to understand his bo / timings, etc.

On January 13 2010 11:34 JoMal wrote:
I want to see a GosI[Terran] stream, then i'd buy into the Artosis hype. Artosis is like the ONLY person that rates this guy so highly.

On January 13 2010 10:26 SkepTicAL wrote:

Artosis boosts morrow/terran/idra. Why? Cuz they all play terran and they all play his style... it really isn't a secret lol.

On January 13 2010 10:46 SoL[9] wrote:


Well not really atleast imo.

My english is very bad but i will try to explain you.

I think is related because is a question of phases. Your are the best example in here for me explain.
I dunno your history but in pretty sure that you dont wake up one day and say "I give up of astronaut now i want to be progamer at BW" ^^ Or one day you decide "Fuck i really want to be progamer, i will train, and fight for what i want!!!!" Right?

To be progamer i think you cant be "phases" but you need to be SOLID mind.
He cant decide a small thing that is like join a clan but he can decide the way of his life???
For me dont make any sense.
Or he like rabbits (jump in clan in clan) or he is still have the mind of a kid.
No offense tho is just that minds of kids is all about dreams and pray about that dreams and hope for a miracle.

But you know that to be progamer is not like that...Dont you Idra?

On January 13 2010 11:40 OmniKnight wrote:
possible chance if juan becomes a progamer he'll be a cool kid in the estro house?hes really popular on west with the koreans trust me i know o.o

On January 13 2010 13:30 IdrA wrote:

except throughout all his clan hopping he has worked towards being a progamer, and remained in gosi the entire time, which is far more important towards accomplishing his goals. dont try to psychoanalyze someone just cuz they keep forgetting foreign teams are a waste of time.

On January 13 2010 14:13 YPang wrote:
Lol Artosis doesnt brag on morrow because he already does enough of that by himself. And Juan doesn't jump Korean clans because he can't get in any other cept Gosi rofl

On January 13 2010 14:52 IdrA wrote:
media isnt a clan


its a lifestyle

On January 13 2010 14:55 Artosis wrote:


+1

On January 13 2010 14:52 IdrA wrote:
media isnt a clan


its a lifestyle

On January 13 2010 16:25 IdrA wrote:
geoff why do you menstruate
afaik thats not common in men

On January 13 2010 16:57 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


If having a bad attitude is menstruating you should see a doctor about your menopause.

On January 13 2010 16:35 jyLee wrote:
None of the matches were even close against a B-teamer and anyone saying otherwise is dumb fuck fanboy, Still best of luck to him on his dreams of becoming a pro gamer.

On January 13 2010 17:28 IdrA wrote:

theres a difference between having a bad attitude and being a bitch

On January 13 2010 17:28 IdrA wrote:

theres a difference between having a bad attitude and being a bitch

On January 13 2010 18:07 {88}iNcontroL wrote:


And you of all people wouldn't know that difference.

On January 13 2010 17:28 IdrA wrote:

theres a difference between having a bad attitude and being a bitch

On January 13 2010 18:26 {88}iNcontroL wrote:

You however are somewhere around the least authoritative figure on winning so you'll have to excuse me if I completely disregard your opinion on the subject.

On January 13 2010 18:26 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
oh attackzerg you have this confused with a competition. Greg is being defensive cause he is sucking juan's cock and calling all foreign clans worthless at the same time. I am just trading posts with him on the subject because I am bored.

You however are somewhere around the least authoritative figure on winning so you'll have to excuse me if I completely disregard your opinion on the subject.

On January 13 2010 17:41 AttackZerg wrote:

LOL

Game over.

Anyway I just had a halarious memory. Artosis hyped up deska too LOL.

On January 13 2010 18:18 AttackZerg wrote:


=( you should have let him win. His last line was clearly the winner.

On January 13 2010 21:42 GTR wrote:


from what i've seen deska is your run of the mill latin-american zerg (does nothing but cheesy shit)

On January 13 2010 14:54 CoOl]1st[ wrote:


dont get me wrong he is a clan hopper but i wouldn't talk if you have NO IDEA what your talking about GosI is an extremely good clan, and he tried very hard to join and has been in it for so long because its good not because he cant join anything else.

On January 14 2010 01:07 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:

Eh, he never really got past his choke, and the moment he did, he got destroyed. :S How can you say he was playing well?

On January 14 2010 01:22 MorroW wrote:
what was score? i dont have time to see the vods atm

On January 14 2010 01:07 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:

Eh, he never really got past his choke, and the moment he did, he got destroyed. :S How can you say he was playing well?

On January 14 2010 00:33 We Are Here wrote:
its a pity that he lost (quite horribly too), i guess a b-teamer is no joke

On January 13 2010 13:30 IdrA wrote:

except throughout all his clan hopping he has worked towards being a progamer, and remained in gosi the entire time, which is far more important towards accomplishing his goals. dont try to psychoanalyze someone just cuz they keep forgetting foreign teams are a waste of time.

On January 13 2010 21:42 GTR wrote:


from what i've seen deska is your run of the mill latin-american zerg (does nothing but cheesy shit)

On January 14 2010 01:00 Chill wrote:
Just watched the games. I thought he played pretty well in game 1 actually. Not sure why everyone is saying he played horribly... :O~

On January 14 2010 06:08 Foucault wrote:


Really? Well, lots of small stuff: bad control, timings, leaving medics by the lurkers, loosing lots of sci vessels (due to bad control). Also he didn't do anything that game really and hardly left his nat. Seems like he didn't know what to do at all, wandering around aimlessly with his m&m, being way too defensive.

I guess it's easier to see the small stuff if you're a terran player.

On January 14 2010 06:17 Chill wrote:

It's also easy to critically judge small things individually and not look at the whole picture.

Edit: My meaning is that people often pick away at the slimmest of details for foreigners. It's really hard to play quickly against a progamer and keep all your timings proper and not get absolutely raped by 2 hatch muta. Which is why I stand by my original comment.

On January 14 2010 07:20 EvilSky wrote:
Im not gonna comment on skill or hype, but god is that a horrible nickname, its even worse than shuttle

On January 14 2010 08:11 Foucault wrote:


Haha yeah "Terran" is probably the worst nickname ever. It's up there with Darkelf and Zergbong

On January 14 2010 08:16 Pokebunny wrote:


Why is DarkElf so bad

On January 14 2010 06:05 leMaj24 wrote:
i'm pretty sure he was born in 1992, so he's not 15 :X

On January 14 2010 06:17 Chill wrote:

It's also easy to critically judge small things individually and not look at the whole picture.

Edit: My meaning is that people often pick away at the slimmest of details for foreigners. It's really hard to play quickly against a progamer and keep all your timings proper and not get absolutely raped by 2 hatch muta. Which is why I stand by my original comment.

On January 14 2010 11:58 We Are Here wrote:
even if it was a korean zerg doing 2 hatch muta, the thing is he basically put up no fight in both games. both games he missed his timing window and gave away a 4th gas, so while he probably didnt do too badly like you said, he got beatly really easily which wont leave a good impression =/

edit: the zerg didnt even need his fourth gas -.-'', im not shitting on terran because i want him to do well and eventually go to korea; but he got owned pretty hard

On January 15 2010 07:27 Chill wrote:

I disagree with everything you wrote. Further, I don't know at what point foreigners became ridiculously obsessed with timing, but it has to stop.

On January 15 2010 07:27 Chill wrote:
Further, I don't know at what point foreigners became ridiculously obsessed with timing, but it has to stop.

On January 15 2010 07:35 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
He wasnt talking about that. He meant how mostly everyone in their posts all of a sudden talks like they are a master of timings. Like they say oh so and so's timing is off, oh so and so must attack at this timing or hes going to lose, etc. Just like how everyone and their grandma started overusing terms like mechanics and 10/15 a lot.

On January 15 2010 07:42 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:


Foreigners should just play THEIR style, and try to win with THEIR own abilities. We aren't mindless macrobots or robots. Beyond a few, like IdrA, Terran, and MorroW, there really are no mindless macro foreigners. Stop this obsession with becoming korean styled gamers, and just play the game.

On January 15 2010 07:41 AttackZerg wrote:
he said something so ridiculous that I was literally laughing.

Go threw my recent posts it isn't that common but thanks for your insightfull opinion about my tl.net table image.

On January 15 2010 07:33 AttackZerg wrote:


LOL

Dude please explain yourself. Timing is everything ESP timing moving out against two hat muta. If you hit a window or you don't depends on wether you disrupt the zergs tech changes/drone cycles ... everything maybe my b- level of understanding starcraft is wrong but there are HUGE timings involved in TvZ against two hat and if you miss them and never preasure and defend against mutas until post lurker-defiler-4gas you will auto lose .....

On January 15 2010 07:41 AttackZerg wrote:
he said something so ridiculous that I was literally laughing.

Go threw my recent posts it isn't that common but thanks for your insightfull opinion about my tl.net table image.

On January 15 2010 07:43 AttackZerg wrote:


Even jaedong in a recent interview said "Practice spliting your drones perfectly and macroing perfectly so that you can by sure timing alone get lings into a tosses base when you shouldn't theoretically" like a perfect overpool can sneak lings into a greedy tosses base one out of eight time but that one time that it works it was worth it ...

On January 15 2010 08:04 Chill wrote:

I am literally not laughing while going throw your posts.

On January 15 2010 07:43 AttackZerg wrote:


Even jaedong in a recent interview said "Practice spliting your drones perfectly and macroing perfectly so that you can by sure timing alone get lings into a tosses base when you shouldn't theoretically" like a perfect overpool can sneak lings into a greedy tosses base one out of eight time but that one time that it works it was worth it ...

On January 15 2010 08:05 Chill wrote:

Is that a direct quote?

That's a rhetrocial question because it is so nonsensical I am assured Jaedong did not say that.

On January 15 2010 08:45 AttackZerg wrote:

(Edit: and my posting history is just fine, aside from calling someone who is anti-chinese a moron. It has all been game/mouse/match/strategy related..... infact I've been far more helpfull then you in the strategy forum lately too!)

On January 15 2010 09:37 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
^Read the thread. No one said anything about how timing doesnt matter.

He wasnt talking about your posting history. He was just poking fun that you wrote threw instead of through in your post.

On January 15 2010 08:45 AttackZerg wrote:

About the timings. Actually chill at the level of modern gameplay there are alot of situations where all is for naught if you do not engage beyond a certain point. Both games were examples of this, he never got outside of his main so zerg was able to freely achieve 'ideal' or 'theoretical' won positions. In modern TvZ if the terran hasn't moved out and preasure the zerg natural or third and allows an early 4th base they will face a never ending series of darkwarms anywhere they push.
Because of the natural of TvZ sure some terrans can make insane comebacks lategame from twobase vs fourbase zerg after lurker/defiler/nydus is established at each base but it is rare.

Thinking that non-koreans should stop focusing on timing is like saying that koreans should worry less about mechanics and use more 'strategic' play. It doesn't make sense. Sure alot of uneducated people pretend to understand or over simplify starcraft through timing but it is definately not an 'obssession that needs to be dropped'.

I am sorry for misquoting jaedong though, I really did extract too much meaning from his answer there although for some reason I've gotten my first two lings in more often then before since I started madly focusing on perfectly macroing earlygame to try and outtime protoss.

(Edit: and my posting history is just fine, aside from calling someone who is anti-chinese a moron. It has all been game/mouse/match/strategy related..... infact I've been far more helpfull then you in the strategy forum lately too!)