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HBR becomes Shin Heartbreak Ridge
Moon Glaive becomes Neo Moon Glaive
Tornado becomes Shin Tornado (although, if you want it to sound better, Neo's fine)
Shin HBR changes:
- Added 500 mineral field at nat
- Centered mineral expos
- Expanded middle of map (all ridges now connected to center)
- Expanded area is unbuildable
+ Show Spoiler [animated HBR changes] +
Neo Moon Glaive changes:
- Adjusted size so that the originally-mineral-only expo can be blocked with 3 pylons now
- Made changes so that doing siege mode near ramp of entrance doesn't cover the entire nat
- Added 2500 gas at the originally mineral-only expo. However, reduced gas at originally third gas-expo to 2500 gas (meaning all gas is now 2500 except for mains and nats)
- Made changes so that you can't attack third's gas from fourth's and vice-versa
- Made changes so that you can wall with 2 depot 1 rax at main
- Increased area at center of map which is unbuildable
- Made nat's entrance bigger from 6 grid to 8 grid
- Made 2nd entrance to nat closer to main entrance
- Made it possible to build turrets at the area just before getting to high ground from the nat
- Made positional imbalance fixes so that marines and lurkers can harass that nat's gas from the 2nd entrance on all positions
Shin Tornado changes:
- Increased all minerals to 2000 at all naturals
- Reduced gas value at 2nd expo from 2000 to 1000, and increased 1 mineral field (from 7 to 8)
- Made it so that you can wall 2nd expo with 3 pylons
- Increased ramp size at the triangular high grounds, added a neutral building that can be destroyed to widen ramp (250hp stacked 4 times)
- Changed 1/7 main's mineral/gas layout to prevent positional imbalance
Match Point fixes:
- Changed 12/6 gas expo positioning so that gas cannot be harassed from across the wall (not the main wall)
Outsider SE fixes:
- Made it so that you can't defend your main's entrance (ramp area) with just sunkens
Fighting Spirit fixes:
- Fixed so that all positions allow 2 depot 1 rax block at ramp
+ Show Spoiler [animated Tornado changes by butterbrain] +
Source: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=101671&db=issue
thanks to butterbrain for the find and gifs
thanks to konadora for translation on page 3
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Neo HBR looks... interesting.
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So this new heart break looks even harder for zerg 
hoping someone will bust out some info on how its not going to be terrible zvp
anyone else, opinions on maps?
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Katowice25012 Posts
It will be fun to see how different HBR plays now
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so do all the ridges lead into the center?
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I'm not sure of balance, but Neo Heartbreak Ridge doesn't look as nice, and Neo Moon Glaive's center doesn't look as much like a glaive worm.
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Hm i think neo hbr could be a lot better for tvp now. Pushing through the middle instead of taking one of the lanes, so that you can stay on the highground.
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United States2822 Posts
The new Moon Glaive naturals seem easier to defend, even if the choke is larger. The second entrance isn't so far in back anymore.
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
wtf moon glaive so many gas now
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On December 03 2009 15:41 konadora wrote:
wtf moon glaive so many gas now
shit i just noticed, woot go zerg 
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On December 03 2009 15:43 StorrZerg wrote:shit i just noticed, woot go zerg
yeah, i noticed a bunch of small changes and missed this
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so k, we have are ups and downs, its late
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On December 03 2009 15:30 StorrZerg wrote:So this new heart break looks even harder for zerg hoping someone will bust out some info on how its not going to be terrible zvp anyone else, opinions on maps?
what do you mean even harder? It was retarded for pvz. Now its at least a bit less unfair
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thats funny i was just thinking they should have done that with HBR, bcus why would the two tips not be openings.
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All these maps are scary Bases are soooo big!
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no mineral onlys on moon glaive? wow
i dont see how neohbr is supposed to be less imba for zvp, it looks like 5hatch hydra will just have an easier time with mobility and taking the high ground
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moon glaive is going to be a protoss graveyard with the wide chokes.
new hbr seems pretty interesting. i'm not exactly sure how well flanking will work on this map but the high ground advantage looks pretty good for t now.
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Damn i lose my ovie spots in ZvT on Heartbreak
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great, an even more useless middle expansion for neoHBR =S
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NeoHBR looks alot more terran friendly in TvP. Now u can seige your first ramp, and the high ground on BOTH sides. I love it! 
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I'm no good at analyzing maps, but did HBR just become even harder for TvP? It looks even easier to flank T and take expos than it was before...
Also, Moon Glaive...the changes are going to bring Z up a bit, aren't they? Maybe we'll get to see some TvZ on it instead of just TvT.
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y does kespa hate protoss so much
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One question: Is it me or they made Zerg more imbalance by widening ramps and adding gas to min only?
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Another thing i noticed on HBR is that the min-only bases were moved to be centered.
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yeah, now there's no reward in taking those min only bases since you're not securing a gas by securing the min only. I do not like neo hbr
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Is it just me, or does the 1o clock natural on Neo HBR have +1 mineral patch than the nat on the compared to old?
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On December 03 2009 16:19 Hinanawi wrote:
I'm no good at analyzing maps, but did HBR just become even harder for TvP? It looks even easier to flank T and take expos than it was before...
Also, Moon Glaive...the changes are going to bring Z up a bit, aren't they? Maybe we'll get to see some TvZ on it instead of just TvT.
the middle is now way more viable for terran to push. You can set up ur push from the ramp, seige the highground, take the mid expo, and push from there. Here is a diagram of what I mean.
The red dots are where ur push initially starts. The green arrow is the direction of your push .The purple dots are where your tanks will end up. The blue lines are depots/turrets which block those small chokes on 1 side. Finally the black x's are the expos you take along the way.
If the toss takes the top bases then depot block the bottom entrances and seige push across his top ramp.
Does this seem viable?
P.S u can depot block the left side into your natural like normal.
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Neo HBR looks sort of funky, and Neo Moon Glaive, just... wow, gas EVERYWHERE.
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Looks pretty damm elaborate and hard to setup if the Protoss is on his feet and spots it before you set it up.
And recalls will kill you if you put too much stuff in the middle.
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Heartbreak Ridge still looks like a nightmare for TvP.
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On December 03 2009 16:47 meegrean wrote:
Heartbreak Ridge still looks like a nightmare for TvP.
the difference is that Terran doesnt have to slow push the low ground against toss on the ramp. You can push the middle and stay on high ground.
On December 03 2009 16:45 neobowman wrote:
Looks pretty damm elaborate and hard to setup if the Protoss is on his feet and spots it before you set it up.
And recalls will kill you if you put too much stuff in the middle.
Im not sure if u are addressing me but what do you mean by elaborate? It's the same as any other terran push, and allows you to remain on high ground. Also, this is HBR...every terran knows about PvT recalls in the main. It's pretty standard to turret the hell out of your main's perimeter, and plant tons of mines. Also, u push the first ramp, and take ur 3rd, max out and push the middle. Its not like u rush it and let toss rape you....terran maxed out and sieging those small chokes will force toss to back up....or die.
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
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On December 03 2009 16:31 Julmust wrote:yeah, now there's no reward in taking those min only bases since you're not securing a gas by securing the min only. I do not like neo hbr
making zvp even harder to get a 4th gas TT
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
why did they change back tornado's mineral/gas formation at 1/7
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On December 03 2009 16:39 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
Is it just me, or does the 1o clock natural on Neo HBR have +1 mineral patch than the nat on the compared to old?
They both went from 7 to 8?
+ Show Spoiler [animated HBR changes] +
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terrans should be jumping for joy with the hbr changes. zerg and protoss should be happy as well with moon glaive. dunno about tornado though.
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On December 03 2009 17:26 konadora wrote:
why did they change back tornado's mineral/gas formation at 1/7
the tlpd image of tornado is outdated. the round 1 kespa tornado map already had those changes.
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
On December 03 2009 18:41 mmgoose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2009 17:26 konadora wrote:
why did they change back tornado's mineral/gas formation at 1/7 the tlpd image of tornado is outdated. the round 1 kespa tornado map already had those changes.
no i mean
at 1 and 7, the mineral/gas formation was same as the other 2 starting locations
now the changed it back to the original formation
also, Moon Glaive 12 o'clock main's mineral formation is changed
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
Also, I see they fixed the doodad bug at 12 oclock with the skeleton on HBR
damn, that was such an eyesore
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On December 03 2009 18:47 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2009 18:41 mmgoose wrote:On December 03 2009 17:26 konadora wrote:
why did they change back tornado's mineral/gas formation at 1/7 the tlpd image of tornado is outdated. the round 1 kespa tornado map already had those changes. no i mean at 1 and 7, the mineral/gas formation was same as the other 2 starting locations now the changed it back to the original formation also, Moon Glaive 12 o'clock main's mineral formation is changed
oh yeah you're right. went from the original west to east then proleague north to south and then reverted back.
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On December 03 2009 16:59 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2009 16:31 Julmust wrote:yeah, now there's no reward in taking those min only bases since you're not securing a gas by securing the min only. I do not like neo hbr making zvp even harder to get a 4th gas TT
Storr you are crazy if you still think HBR is hard for ZvP.
I don't like what they did to Moon Glave (not that I liked it in the first place). More gas=Bad for PvZ, wider chokes and multiple entrances to your natural just make it seem like a PvZ graveyard, but we will see I guess.
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
On December 03 2009 19:11 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2009 16:59 StorrZerg wrote:On December 03 2009 16:31 Julmust wrote:yeah, now there's no reward in taking those min only bases since you're not securing a gas by securing the min only. I do not like neo hbr making zvp even harder to get a 4th gas TT Storr you are crazy if you still think HBR is hard for ZvP. I don't like what they did to Moon Glave (not that I liked it in the first place). More gas=Bad for PvZ, wider chokes and multiple entrances to your natural just make it seem like a PvZ graveyard, but we will see I guess.
at least we'll have more interesting TvTs
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My precious siege tanks is going to be sweet on Neo HBR now
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10387 Posts
On December 03 2009 19:11 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2009 16:59 StorrZerg wrote:On December 03 2009 16:31 Julmust wrote:yeah, now there's no reward in taking those min only bases since you're not securing a gas by securing the min only. I do not like neo hbr making zvp even harder to get a 4th gas TT Storr you are crazy if you still think HBR is hard for ZvP. I don't like what they did to Moon Glave (not that I liked it in the first place). More gas=Bad for PvZ, wider chokes and multiple entrances to your natural just make it seem like a PvZ graveyard, but we will see I guess.
hmm I'm guess wider chokes make it easier to bust zerg sim-cities though..
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On December 03 2009 16:23 da_head wrote:y does kespa hate protoss so much
Faggot race needs hard maps so they can burn and suffer.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Scouting will be a little more interesting on HBR now, and I guess they actually wanted someone to use the middle? Changes to Moon Glaive probably to get less TvTs.
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Pretty big changes for Moon Glaive.
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Thank god they put another entrance to the base on HBR
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United States42270 Posts
I do not like the gassy Moon Glaive. Not fun for PvZ.
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Thanks a lot for those gifs butterbrain. Sometimes it's tough to tell exactly what's up.
Protoss might be able to benefit from the wider ramps in new tornado to flank more easily despite unwieldy army ai.
I agree that new HBR has an easier Terran push position.
Moon Glaive is like a totally different map.
EDIT: extra mins on HBR is worse for zerg.
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so much gas at moon glaive O_O
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
oh man, you should have let me do the translation, you missed out so much info
HBR becomes Shin Heartbreak Ridge
Moon Glaive becomes Neo Moon Glaive
Tornado becomes Shin Tornado (although, if you want it to sound better, Neo's fine)
Shin HBR changes:
- Added 500 mineral field at nat
- Centered mineral expos
- Expanded middle of map (all ridges now connected to center)
- Expanded area is unbuildable
Neo Moon Glaive changes:
- Adjusted size so that the originally-mineral-only expo can be blocked with 3 pylons now
- Made changes so that doing siege mode near ramp of entrance doesn't cover the entire nat
- Added 2500 gas at the originally mineral-only expo. However, reduced gas at originally third gas-expo to 2500 gas (meaning all gas is now 2500 except for mains and nats)
- Made changes so that you can't attack third's gas from fourth's and vice-versa
- Made changes so that you can wall with 2 depot 1 rax at main
- Increased area at center of map which is unbuildable
- Made nat's entrance bigger from 6 grid to 8 grid
- Made 2nd entrance to nat closer to main entrance
- Made it possible to build turrets at the area just before getting to high ground from the nat
- Made positional imbalance fixes so that marines and lurkers can harass that nat's gas from the 2nd entrance on all positions
Shin Tornado changes:
- Increased all minerals to 2000 at all naturals
- Reduced gas value at 2nd expo from 2000 to 1000, and increased 1 mineral field (from 7 to 8)
- Made it so that you can wall 2nd expo with 3 pylons
- Increased ramp size at the triangular high grounds, added a neutral building that can be destroyed to widen ramp (250hp stacked 4 times)
- Changed 1/7 main's mineral/gas layout to prevent positional imbalance
Match Point fixes:
- Changed 12/6 gas expo positioning so that gas cannot be harassed from across the wall (not the main wall)
Outsider SE fixes:
- Made it so that you can't defend your main's entrance (ramp area) with just sunkens
Fighting Spirit fixes:
- Fixed so that all positions allow 2 depot 1 rax block at ramp
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Hmm any links to dl Neo HBR?
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thank you Konadora, i guess HBR looks better, but Outsider even those changes, man i just hate that map...
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On December 04 2009 10:58 konadora wrote:
you can close and make an op with all this, or i can just edit the op to include this and the gifs
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
On December 04 2009 11:07 jalstar wrote:or i can just edit the op to include this and the gifs
yes just do that, no need to make a new thread
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pripple
Finland1714 Posts
so almost every map had some changes afterall, thanks!
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Nice, I like the HBR changes.
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YES! I can finally wall off on these maps <3
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51401 Posts
New Heartbreak Ridge, Neo Moon Glaive and New Tornado =/
Expected fresh new maps.
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Glad they're paying more attention to positional imbalance. It is kind of annoying when one spot allows stuff like drop behind mineral lines (or mutas) and others don't. Same goes for walling and all that.
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On December 04 2009 13:41 GTR wrote:
New Heartbreak Ridge, Neo Moon Glaive and New Tornado =/
Expected fresh new maps.
maybe round 3. maybe round 3........
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this entire update is overall a huge boost for terran confidence
fuck i love this update so much
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I'm confused as to why Moon Glaive needed more gas... oh well. Maybe Jaedong complained.
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I really like the change in HBR- maybe it's because I am a Terran 
It should have significant impact on gameplay unlike most of the "updated" maps. That fact alone makes me like Shin HBR. Would love to see how progamers adapt to the changes.
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I don't even see a difference in outsider X_X. Maybe it's just me.
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r the new versions available for download yet?
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Is TSL going to update to these versions?
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On December 05 2009 06:07 Musoeun wrote:
I'm confused as to why Moon Glaive needed more gas... oh well. Maybe Jaedong complained.
27 TvT, 4 ZvZ, 0 PvP....pretty obvious bias.
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
Shin Heartbreak Ridge is available for download, the rest is not available at the moment.
there's a bug, i'll reupload the map later
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I actually like the Moon Glaive changes, though I wish they'd also narrowed the natural choke; it could actually be decently balanced if they had. As it is, I'm a lot more comfortable with PvT there now, but I will still dodge zergs every time.
SHBR is even more awesome than original HBR. The imbalance for toss wasn't ever statistically significant, by the way, but now PvT is going to be pretty even, assuming Ts are smart enough to take the center as their fourth. PvZ has always been incredibly entertaining on that map, and I don't think these changes will affect that. I love tne new look, by the way - at first I was like "ew", but I got used to it pretty fast.
I've never actually played on Tornado (I know, I'm horrible) but I do like the look of Shin Tornado a lot more. An actually defendable third is always nice, as is having high ground serve more purpose than helping siege tanks and lurkers fuck me up. And fixing positional imbalances is always good, obviously.
Match Point has always been awesome, and they didn't mess with that. I never saw the gas harass in action, but now I'm glad that it's impossible. ^.^
I like the Outsider change, but I don't think it'll make the map much less of a zerg wet dream.
Fighting Spirit is, has been, and will be awesome, and letting Terrans actually make a proper wall can't hurt it. Even if not all of them deserve it.
Seriously though, overall, good changes, but I still hope Tornado and Moon Glaive are gone after this season. There are so many better 4 player maps out there. Hell, while I'm dreaming, maybe they'll replace them with Byzantium and Gaia for round three.
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I downloaded the rar file. But everytime i try and load the game it says the selected scenario is invalid. ?
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Hope these changes to HBR makes it more balanced. Not sure how it will affect PvT, but PvZ at least is bound to be better, no more camping 2 spots to hold 5 bases.
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Overall these all seem like good changes~
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
On December 05 2009 13:51 DyEnasTy wrote:
I downloaded the rar file. But everytime i try and load the game it says the selected scenario is invalid. ?
sorry, i think it's because of the korean name making it too long. I'll fix that and reupload it
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
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China3334 Posts
Thanks! Btw, I added it to TLPD as Shin Heartbreak Ridge based your post on last page. I don't think it's a big deal....the whole neo/new/shin thing -_- Or we should call it Shin Heartbreak Ridge 2.0?
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Thanks the new link worked! How do I use the TR version properly?
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On December 03 2009 15:30 StorrZerg wrote:So this new heart break looks even harder for zerg hoping someone will bust out some info on how its not going to be terrible zvp anyone else, opinions on maps?
You mean harder ZvP than the 25-15 (62.5%) over the last 40 games on it? Wow, Zerg players are spoiled. 128 rush distance just to make sure mutas will give you the mobility edge up to mid-late game and build in ridges to make lurkers unbeatable isn't enough?
Most of the changes are blessed, and very much needed... Seem somewhat leaning towards strengthening Terrans, but that should cause less Zerg heavy lineups and more Protoss fun, so I'm all for that.
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Melbourne5338 Posts
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The animated changes are great! Wish we have more of those
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
ok, we need to set this straight, since calendar is using different names
Poll: Updated HBR name?
(Vote): Neo Heartbreak Ridge
(Vote): New Heartbreak Ridge
(Vote): Shin Heartbreak Ridge
Poll: Updated Tornado name?
(Vote): Neo Tornado
(Vote): New Tornado
(Vote): Shin Tornado
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
HBR fixed for Terran players lol
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EPT![[image loading]](/staff/konadora/1259814265_2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1366/heartbreak.gif)
![[image loading]](/staff/konadora/1259814265_3.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/konadora/1259814265_4.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/konadora/1259814265_5.jpg)
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![[image loading]](/staff/konadora/1259814265_7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/2znoaw1.gif)
![[image loading]](http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7008/hbr1.jpg)
