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So there's the distinct possibility that I will be living in Lisses near Paris to do an internship at a company for a year. While it's not 100% sure yet whether I will be going or not, I thought it would be a good idea to at least gather some basic facts. I would appreciate it if some of TL's French users (or anyone who lived in France for some time) could help me out with a few general questions.
My primary concern is finding accommodation which is somewhat close to my workplace (93527 St-Denis Cedex 2) as well as affordable - while I will get paid during my internship, it's not too much and I heard horror stories of how high the cost of living is in and near Paris. Basically, I am looking for the French equivalent of www.gumtree.com in the UK for France. So far I've found:
http://www.appartager.com/
http://www.acheter-louer.fr/
http://www.recherche-colocation.com/
http://colocation.annonceetudiant.com/
Are these the most common pages or have I missed an obvious one? Which one would you recommend? What price range should I expect for Lisses? So far, monthly rent there seems to vary from 350€ to 500€ (I'd have trouble going much higher than this). I would also be very grateful if someone could give me a rough yet realistic estimate on how high the actual cost of living in Lisses would be - I spent a year in London and I daresay that I can survive on quite a little money when it comes to food, but I am not sure how I will manage if rent + groceries + commuting is simply too much.
I am well aware that the French are somewhat peculiar when it comes to their language, but is it realistic to expect that (at least for the first few months) I will be able to manage with English and German? I studied French for five years and am somewhat confident when it comes to reading or understanding it passively, speaking, however, is a very different beast. It goes without saying that I will definitely try my best to improve my French as soon as possible (which is one of the reasons I wanted to go to France to begin with), but I am really not confident enough that I will notice if someone tries to get the better of me.
If you have any other advice on French culture (work hierarchy, daily life, attitude towards foreigners, women, etc.) I would be happy to hear it. Merci.
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I've spent sometime as a foreigner in France before, first things first, expect nothing of English or German because you will not get it. If you've studied French for a bit, it'll help, but it is imperative that you work on it a lot, otherwise I fear it might make your internship less productive than it could've been. You can probably survive the daily life with basic, simple French, but I'm not sure that works for your internship.
During my first few months in France, I struggled with speaking it a lot. Most often, when you get stuck trying to say something, best thing to do is usually smile, take a breather, and rearrange your thoughts. The smile is important! I often asked them to slow down and repeat when I didn't understand something as well.
I didn't live in Paris so I wouldn't know about the living cost, but the guesstimate shouldn't be far from London. 350-500 is a reasonable range for an apartment. I don't think the cost doesn't really ramp up unless you live in the metropolis itself. If you didn't already know, every shops (everything, really) will be closed on Sunday in France, and sometimes 12-14 weekdays. If you need to do groceries on Sunday, better find where the Sunday morning market is in the town (every single town in france have one), I actually really like them.
My overall experience with France was positive, most natural reaction I seem to receive is most people are somewhat 'intrigued' with foreigners. I didn't felt like I was looked down at or get a resentful aura, at least not to my face anyway. When I did my internship in France (only a 'Stage Ouvrier', which is like unskilled cheap labor for a month or two  , but still) I was lucky enough to work with other interns, so it was easier for me to bond.
Women? Oh the legend is true they are as beautiful as they say....in general, an average women in the French population will indeed be attractive. Wooing is different matter though  .
For the touristic parts, oddly enough I find Paris incredibly boring, and liked other parts of the country far more.
Anyway, good luck and make the most of your time there!
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As the guy with my signature as his account name already said, without French, you are pretty much the scum of the earth for them. Don't even expect tourist information to actually speak more than rudimentary English, or to be helpful.
I have never ever had such a chain of unhelpful (and in the case of the bus driver who let me out many stops too early intentionally, even malevolent) people anywhere in the world, as I encountered in Paris. And I was speaking English, not German.
As to accommodation: What might be worth trying is to post on the intranet that you are looking for a flat. Also when I moved to Munich, I got the OK from HR to email everyone at the company, and I got a decent flat offered that very day that I took.
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French aren't that bad, it's just that parisians hate tourists (including French ones, so it's not really against foreigners), and we are terrible at English. But depending on the field of your internship, it is possible you'll find some people willing to speak English. Try to make friends fast, it will help you get through all the complicated stuff.
For accomodation, if you're really in Lisses, I guess you'll be able to find stuff in your price range, and Paris isn't more expensive than London, so you should be fine. I've survived with about 1k€ per month and it's doable. The thing is, Lisses is not really close to Saint-Denis, like, at all. Will you have a car or something ?
I'll get back to you tomorrow for other stuff, you can pm me if you want !
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But depending on the field of your internship, it is possible you'll find some people willing to speak English. Try to make friends fast, it will help you get through all the complicated stuff.
This. For example, if you're in IT or engineering, you can be sure people will speak english (with a horrible accent, but they should understand you).
In your daily life, though, forget about it, unless you live in a very international town (in Paris itself, you can get away with speaking in english). Forget about german, too, don't even try, no one speaks it.
Food is pretty cheap in France, but rent will always be very high around Paris. For commuting, if you use public transports, ask the company you work at, they should be able to reimburse you 50%, most companies do it.
Confirming that most things are closed during sundays. Even the largest stores. It's a pain.
The best advice I could give you would be to search for a proper collocation instead of trying to pay your rent alone. Plus being in a collocation would help your French tremendously. And even if most French are horrible at English, students are usually an exception since we all learn English in school.
If you have any other advice on French culture (work hierarchy, daily life, attitude towards foreigners, women, etc.) I would be happy to hear it. Merci.
Work hierarchy really depends on which sector you're working in. Attitude towards English speaking foreigners is usually pretty good, except in very tourist heavy areas.
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I sure as hell wouldn't go to work in France if I didn't speak the language, unless it would be for a company where English is a requirement...
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Hello, I'm French but I've never lived IN Paris, so can't help you for your first questions. However I'd say that if you managed London, Paris should be ok.
I am well aware that the French are somewhat peculiar when it comes to their language, but is it realistic to expect that (at least for the first few months) I will be able to manage with English and German?
Day to day people will speak a very basic english so it should be alright to pay your stuff but forget about having conversations. Sadly, some people will become unreceptive if you speak in English but to be honest... they probably suck at English anyway so you wouldn't miss that much by them giving you the cold shoulder.
I studied French for five years and am somewhat confident when it comes to reading or understanding it passively, speaking, however, is a very different beast.
If you can understand French, just practice talking it as much as possible. It will make your life 100x times easier and in the end it will train your brain and mouth to the language.
It goes without saying that I will definitely try my best to improve my French as soon as possible (which is one of the reasons I wanted to go to France to begin with), but I am really not confident enough that I will notice if someone tries to get the better of me.
Not sure what you mean by the better out of you.
For learning, get some friends as quick as possible.
If you have any other advice on French culture (work hierarchy, daily life, attitude towards foreigners, women, etc.) I would be happy to hear it. Merci.
You'll get 10 times a better response if you try to slowly speak in french than if you assume people will try to respond to you in English. And you'll get better in the process.
You see... the problem with french people is that they think English/American people are just lazy as fuck that don't want to learn a language and assume everybody speak theirs. Prove the contrary and it should be better.
Either way, you'll come across some unsympathetic people, can't avoid them. Ignore them.
Work hierarchy: In my limited experience, it's stronger than in English country, the boss is really the boss so don't expect him to be your buddy.
Women: Shouldn't be that much different than usual. Once again, if you try to make effort speaking the language to ask a girl out you will have better results than if you try to suavely say something in English. You having troubles can come off as cute. Everything else is the same as in other countries... if you suck with women you won't get much, if you're good you have good chances.
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You'll get 10 times a better response if you try to slowly speak in french than if you assume people will try to respond to you in English. And you'll get better in the process.
You see... the problem with french people is that they think English/American people are just lazy as fuck that don't want to learn a language and assume everybody speak theirs. Prove the contrary and it should be better.
Either way, you'll come across some unsympathetic people, can't avoid them. Ignore them.
That. Especially in daily life. It's a lot less true in professional environment since English is more common here.(I'm in engineering, even if the company does nothing in English, it's still a requirement to be recruited).
Work hierarchy: In my limited experience, it's stronger than in English country, the boss is really the boss so don't expect him to be your buddy.
Really depends on the size of your company. It's really true in large companies (but you won't meet the boss anyway), but false in smaller. You can be quite friendly with your direct superior though.
Women: Shouldn't be that much different than usual. Once again, if you try to make effort speaking the language to ask a girl out you will have better results than if you try to suavely say something in English. You having troubles can come off as cute. Everything else is the same as in other countries... if you suck with women you won't get much, if you're good you have good chances.
Basically, remember that:
English isn't cute, it labels you as a tourist. Bad French is cute. The fact that you try is always a good point for you.
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First of all, you'll be in Lisses. That's not Paris. Don't think you'll go to the inner City every week, that's not going to happen. Most of the time, you'll experience Evry. Not that enjoyable, some areas are quite poor but there is worse. But the cost of life is lower in these areas so it's a trade-off.
You won't get around in your daily life if you don't know how to buy groceries in French. So learn sample phrases, and practice with your mirror or you are going to feel alienated so hard, homesick is going to be a pleonasm. Have a small dictionary with you at all times, it identifies you as a foreigner and people will be more tolerant. As for work, well if they accepted you, it means they are ready to deal with the possible difficulties.
To find a flat : pap.fr - that's the biggest website
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Aside from the fact that English won't be that helpful in everyday live (even in students are often really bad at it or at least have extreeeme accents) France is a really nice country to stay.
Get comfortable speaking french, you don't have to be anywhere near perfect, but you have to lose the shame of speaking "wrong" and just speak  .
Btw: I would get a car, the public transport was on strike like every other week for 1-2 days while i was there .
I loved my 3 months there. Have fun!
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On July 17 2013 13:35 rezoacken wrote:
You'll get 10 times a better response if you try to slowly speak in french than if you assume people will try to respond to you in English. And you'll get better in the process.
You see... the problem with french people is that they think English/American people are just lazy as fuck that don't want to learn a language and assume everybody speak theirs. Prove the contrary and it should be better.
Either way, you'll come across some unsympathetic people, can't avoid them. Ignore them.
I concur. Think of it as how we like when koreans give interviews in broken English instead of relying on a translator, their popularity goes up rapidly. Similarly, it's better to fumble with broken French than resort to English. If the person you're conversing with have really good English, sometimes they'll be the ones who offer to speak English with you.
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Hey. i Live near Lisses (if it's postal code 91XXX) so feel free to PM me if you have questions.
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EPT
