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No, this is not another one of these "I quit" blogs, but more of one that addresses the obvious issues TL will face in the near future. TL is obviously becoming a completely different site, right in front of our faces.
I do not mean for this blog to be inflammatory or to criticize anyone in any sort of way.
For the past four and a half years, TL has been a staple of my internet life. Every day, the first thing I would do after getting home from school would be to check TL for any new updates. For the next 6 hours, I would always have a calculus or biology book in one hand, and my laptop with the TL page on it in the other. I discovered the exciting and new world of Korean professional gaming, something I had never seen before. And yes, I watched all those Klazart commentaries, and applaud him for his exciting commentaries (although full of factual errors).
Soon I would begin playing SC again, except on low money maps rather than on "Evolvezz No Noobs!!" or "ZC NR MM +2 Xpertz." I really began playing seriously in 2008, where I would grind 10+ games a day with various ICCUP teams, and got to solid yellow ranks. I was becoming a decent starcraft player, TL was amusing with just the right balance of veterans and new blood, starcraft vods were fascinating, life was good. I couldn't imagine ever leaving Teamliquid as a site.
However, over time things began to change. I am sure many of you experienced a similar phenomenon: where at first you watched every, single, game, (even OGN Sparkyz vs Estro 50 minute TvT matches), over time the new, refreshing idea of progaming started to wear off. You then start to only watch MSL/OSL games, and finally, only Ro8 matches and above. Also, I began to play less and less SC as real life and especially the stresses of my senior year in 2008-2009 (applying to college, etc.) started to wear on me.
However, I still followed and played SC (although to a far lesser extent). I also stayed for a much more important reason: the people of TL. TL members tended to be intelligent, helpful, and relatively idiot-proof. They offered insightful comments on important issues, as many are obviously smart and college educated. Then came 2 bombshells. SC2 beta and the illegal gambling bomb.
With the advent of SC2 beta, tons of people began to quit BW. Many top players and friends stopped playing altogether, so I saw no point in continuing to play BW. I also hoped that Starcraft 2 would re-energize my interest in gaming and esports, but SC2 would do no such thing. Instead, I found after playing a few placement matches that SC2 felt rather dry and uninspired (especially from the zerg perspective), and that watching SC2 was even more boring; it always just feels like two blobs going at it, and the fatter blob wins.
With Starcraft 2 beta also came a massive new wave of users. I don't have official statistics, but I would be willing to bet that 90% of posts nowadays are made by posters who joined within the last year. However, many of these posters have little interest in SC1 other than as "just another rts game," and are in general a seemingly much younger crowd than the veterans. I have trouble finding common ground with most of these posters, and don't feel the same "connection," if you will, with them as I do with the older crowd in TL.
The illegal gambling scandal also finally put to rest my passion for the SC1 progaming scene. Ever since the news came out that Savior was a crook all along, I haven't watched a single vod. It was too disappointing that my romantic vision of progaming was shattered (although it had already started to crack with ret, nony, and draco's stories, along with the progaming gossip series).
Now that SC is finally dying due to SC2, the fact that I probably will not be playing or watching SC2, and the massive influx of new blood that has little stake in SC1, I am not sure how much longer that Teamliquid will hold my interest in the future. I am sure that alot of other TLers feel the same way.
Anyways, I just wanted to let TL know how I feel. I am not one of those people who is saying "SC2 SUCKS!" or "OMG TL HAS DEGRADED TO SHIT!", but change always hurts.
TL;DR: TL is not the site it used to be. Some people will like it, some people will not.
Edit: I guess a big part of it is cause SC was the only game that excites me in any sort of way. I've never given a crap about esports or video games outside of SC, whether it was Counterstrike, the CoD series, Halo, or Command and Conquer. I tried some MMO's, but they all came down to boring grinding. The only game I ever really cared for is dying, and I guess that is what makes me sad.
 
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Braavos36374 Posts
I edited your thread title to be more accurate, as you are not actually leaving.
I don't think everyone that played starcraft was immediately enamored with it either. You have to give SC2 a chance, it's really quite a similar and fun game (non Zerg races especially). If you still don't find it fun after more playing, maybe you just outgrew video games? It happens.
I think people see the "old days" of TL through nostalgia tinted glasses too much and project what they felt was great back then. Yes, there are new posters. Yes, there are a lot of them. But I think people greatly exaggerate how "good" it was back then.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
As many people say, it's still the Beta. The discoveries that made SCBW fun... well, some of them weren't discovered for a long time. Take conventional muta micro as we know it, that wasn't around until July came by. Okay Qatol Shark made it, but July popularized it. Happy now?
I am one of those people that have joined TL within the past year, but I stick with Brood War. I'm pretty sure most of my posts come from Progaming (and mafia) LR threads, and I've avoided SCII mostly, though I read some interesting threads once in a while.
I still think TL is great. I've read through some old posts, and quality is quality, and we still have quality today, if not more so. Granted, there are a lot of newer not-so-quality posters, but it takes time for people to learn.
Sorry you're leaving though, I hope you find something else.
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Exactly how i feel.
I joined TL for 3 main reason is to achieve C+ by this summer by learning different tactics from watching livestreams, to watching proleagues and be part of the community. TL was the place to be when i needed information and anything SCBW related. I always watched livestreams of top players playing live games everyday, but now all i see is STARCRAFT2. Yeah TL has changed ever since the beta came.
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I joined within the last year, but I've been lurking for many, many years, and I agree with you. SC2 bores me to tears; even if we discover 'tricks' such as muta micro, Blizzard would likely take it out, deeming it to be imbalanced and saying that it increases the skill gap between newbies and progamer levels.
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People tend to think like that for every kind of community. Most veterans will keep telling everyone how good it was ages ago, when it probably wasn't that different. Maybe you enjoyed it because you were younger or something, and now it's not as interesting for you anymore. Of course, I can't really say much about TL, since I didn't follow the community much until last year, but that always happens. A few years from now, the newbies who actually stick around will look back at this day and post about the same thing. I think we change more than the actual community does.
About SC2, well, of course people see it a lot, the game is coming out soon, we've been waiting for it for 12 years now, it should come as no surprise. And even if you didn't like the game and want SCBW information, TL is still the place to be, you can still watch korean and foreigner leagues, you can still read about the latest news and, even if not as much, there's still a few SCBW streamers around.
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I find that TL is still great. Locking most threads, banning alot of users for crap posts ... I have been around for about 3 years (lurking mostly) and i find that the coverage, the tournaments (omg TSL), the TLPD, liquipedia, fantasy starcraft e.g. is absolutely awesome and steadily improving the site. There is just not an option if you want to be up-to-date!
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I don't feel that different, there are still a lot of good posters around.
It's just evolution mate, can't go back...
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
There are a lot of new posters for sure, but it isn't as bad as I thought it'd be.
But it IS funny whenever something happens like beta is launched, sc2 is street dated etc.. we now get 30 threads "announcing" each event  Pretty funny.
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United States20661 Posts
Any organization suffers from nostalgia, and the disillusionment that inevitably comes with it. Hell, I went from a mod on this site to a standard user; from being one of the most involved to one of the least. Yet despite that, I feel that TL is still the best progaming site around, and the new staff are doing a good job - sure, it's not the same, but nothing ever is.
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On May 06 2010 04:33 iloahz wrote:
what does TL;DR mean?
Too long; didn't read
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On May 06 2010 04:35 Last Romantic wrote:
Any organization suffers from nostalgia, and the disillusionment that inevitably comes with it. Hell, I went from a mod on this site to a standard user; from being one of the most involved to one of the least. Yet despite that, I feel that TL is still the best progaming site around, and the new staff are doing a good job - sure, it's not the same, but nothing ever is.
That's true, TL is still by far the best progaming site on the web, but why do you still come here? Are you a Sc2 fan, or is it just because you're used to coming here for so many years, that you can't imagine life without TL? I sort of fit under no. 2.
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I was ready to give SC2 an honest chance. I was probably one of the more optimistic ones here on the site when the game was first announced (there were alot of haters).
But, i don't know. Now I just find it... meh. I guess the game is decent. Might even be a good game by today's standards.
But simply good is not enough to keep me interested. It feels boring after just a couple of hundred games (not a good sign). In BW, whenever i lost, I could feel how lacking and how inferior I was. When an idiot beat me, I knew I had screwed up incredibly. I knew I could be faster, quicker, better and overcome it all. There was always room to improve. If there was a ceiling, I had never seen that ceiling because it was so high.
In SC2. I'm one of these fucking idiots who beats great and legendary players all the time. And I don't even feel like I'm doing anything special. I don't feel deserving at all. Whether I win or lose, it's the same feeling.
Win? Might just as well been a loss.
Loss? Might just as well been a win.
While it's stupid to claim there's no room to improve, I still feel like somehow the ceiling is in sight. Like even if I put on the best fucking performance of my life, I could still lose. With how the game currently plays out, there's not enough difference between a perfect player and a flawed one.
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah a load of sentimental bullcrap I know.
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I find this a bit sad as I'm mostly interested in BW still; Hype threads are fewer, LR threads are crated later, and I think Flash's breaking BW together with SC2 on the rise has shifted focus a bit. Though this isn't preferable for the BW followers, all the newcomers should make Team Liquid flourish as a community.
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you are going through the same phase the vast majority of people go through with the vast majority of their interests.
Nostalgia is a comforting tool, and also the source of much cognitive dissonance.
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On May 06 2010 04:42 Demand2k wrote:
I find this a bit sad as I'm mostly interested in BW still; Hype threads are fewer, LR threads are crated later, and I think Flash's breaking BW together with SC2 on the rise has shifted focus a bit. Though this isn't preferable for the BW followers, all the newcomers should make Team Liquid flourish as a community.
I have no doubts TL will flourish with SC2 and become huge; I just feel like its a Super Smash Bros Melee->Brawl scenario, except worse (most good SSBM players actually stuck with it).
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
I love TL as much or more than wayyyyyyyyy back when I joined. (Still wanna know what number I was to join) This site is great, I am biased, its my opinion but I love this site and love the community that has grown with this site.I feel blessed to be a part of this site as silly as some of you may think that sounds.
Much love to TL.NET and the great People behind everything this site is.
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On May 06 2010 04:47 FuDDx wrote:
I love TL as much or more than wayyyyyyyyy back when I joined. (Still wanna know what number I was to join) This site is great, I am biased, its my opinion but I love this site and love the community that has grown with this site.I feel blessed to be a part of this site as silly as some of you may think that sounds.
Much love to TL.NET and the great People behind everything this site is.
I second that ^^
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I kinda wished they found a way to release sc2 without taking away from bw, but it seems they went for the 'replacement' route (whether or not it does is still to be seen)
Maybe like re-release bw with new features graphics, and bug/pathing fixes etc and added niceties, then make sc2 the plot progresser but a somewhat different enough game? Not sure that woulda worked either haha, Cant make everyone happy.
As for the new users,yea there's a lot, and more including lurkers posting more (hi). I feel the moderators do a good job,and can keep the quality high, yea but there is a spike "unfamiliar feel" a bit, not necessarily bad. Thats just how things go, always evolving hehe.
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EPT
