• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:40
CET 10:40
KST 18:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice4Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion It's March 3rd BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ CasterMuse Youtube Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues BWCL Season 64 Announcement The Casual Games of the Week Thread [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
RSVSR Where to Unlock the REV 46 in Black Ops 7 U4GM Arknights Endfield First Week Tips U4GM Tips for POE 2 Negative Rarity Breakpoints U4GM How to Build Big Killstreaks in Diablo 4 [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Just Watchers: Why Some Only…
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2207 users

Worth it?

Blogs > Harrad
Post a Reply
Harrad
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
1003 Posts
December 26 2010 14:02 GMT
#1
Hi TL,
I (low level toss) am kind of torn concerning my ladder play atm, and I would like to hear some opinions. I'm in the following situation: After ~200 BSG ladder games in bronze+silver I got tired of close-call, nerve-racking 40 min matches in which I would either win, because my opponent made one more mistake than I did, or have awkward losses due to misrallies, getting criminally often supply blocked, having mental black-outs, [!tl;dr-ERROR; virtually endless list. Aborting..!] and generally being a rather bad player I decided to take a long-ish break from laddering and decided to take a slow, methodical approach to rework my play from ground up, playing tons of customs, and vs my trusty macro practice partner, the very hard ai.

I watched a ton of replays of high level players, learned about timings, the defining mechanics of each race (played both Zerg and Terran for a while), counters, the importance of aggression etc. At first all those aspects seemed overwhelmingly complex to me, but after investing quite a lot of time and nerves, my persistence and hard "work" seemed to pay off (from my pov that is): I hardly get supply-blocked anymore, my macro runs more or less on auto-pilot, my apm got from 40-50 to 110-130 and i generally feel I do have a way better game sense than before i started working on my play. I picked 2 build orders vs each race (1 for 2-player maps, 1 for 4-player maps/long rush distances) and tried to perfect them as much as possible (PvT: dual-stalker/vr and 1gate fe; PvP: 3gate robo and 2gate fe; PvZ: 3gate expand and 3 gate-stargate).

Now I am feeling almost confident enough to hit the ladder again, but the thing is I am still only in Silver (got promoted from Bronze 100 games before I stopped laddering).
From my experience getting promoted is quite a crawl and I would like to hit the Diamond League quickly now, which was eventually my goal when I started playing online. Now from the time I played Terran I learned to execute the 3Rax Timing Push quite well, which is imo a simple but relatively powerful build, especially in the lower leagues.

My question is now, if you want to get to Diamond quickly, is it viable to just power through with a semi all-in build, or would it be worth it to just meticulously use the more macro-oriented builds even though they may not be really necessary at that level of play?



OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
December 26 2010 14:06 GMT
#2
4 gate works at 2700 diamond
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
kaisr
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada715 Posts
December 26 2010 14:10 GMT
#3
well it seems you already have a quickish win build ready for PvT and PvZ (dual stalker/vr and 3gate-stargate). Practicing those while moving up seems to be a better use of your time than just 4gating.
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
December 26 2010 15:07 GMT
#4
do you want to become a good player or hit diamond


if you want to become good then practice macro builds, otherwise cheesing is am uch better use of your time
Writer
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
December 26 2010 16:13 GMT
#5
You can get very far on a strict diet of all-ins. (Just look at TSL-Rain)

But, eventually, you're going to start running into players that know how to stop your cheese.

When you get there, if you don't have any sort of macro experience, you're going to find yourself in a position where you have to relearn how to play the game...

So is it worth it, to falsely inflate your rank just so you can ask yourself a similar question a few weeks from now? I'd say no, but different people have different opinions on the matter.
Servius_Fulvius
Profile Joined August 2009
United States947 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-26 17:33:56
December 26 2010 17:32 GMT
#6
Ver's BW improvement guide talked about all-in vs. macro play, but it more or less mirrors what has already been said.

All-ins will result in in a lot more wins, so if your goal is to increase your rank and see a precious gem next to your league name, then this is the quickest way to do it. As has been mentioned you hit a wall at some point where your all-ins aren't nearly as affective. Even failing to transition from a very damaging all-in can be punished by a higher-level opponent.

Macro-oriented play is the opposite - you lose a whole ton of games at the beginning. I placed Plat and was demoted to Gold since almost all my games were against all-ins. I've only had time for 60 games (a lot more coming in a week before school kicks back in), which isn't quite enough to get a good feel for what kind of all-ins are coming and how to defend them. Of course, then you have to learn the macro play-style which is a tad more complicated than "build a ton of workers and then a shit-ton of units", so you get to experience the joys of build order responses, unit compositions, and faking out an opponent playing the "I'll build whatever counters you" game.

The strategy forums also tell us that you can simply macro a player to death without learning much strategy until diamond. Maybe this was the case four months ago but simply building a ton of units (especially as zerg) isn't going to win you the game (especially against those who play the "I'll build whatever counters you" game!).
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 204
ProTech132
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 38259
Calm 5829
Horang2 1096
Hyuk 541
PianO 281
Light 187
Shuttle 180
Soma 163
Sharp 115
Dewaltoss 89
[ Show more ]
Larva 82
Backho 64
ToSsGirL 41
Hm[arnc] 36
Free 29
sSak 24
soO 22
910 22
JulyZerg 20
Sacsri 17
sorry 15
NaDa 15
GoRush 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Terrorterran 4
Noble 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 453
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1205
Stewie2K895
shoxiejesuss865
allub238
Other Games
singsing934
Liquid`RaSZi888
ceh9626
Happy233
Livibee145
Fuzer 105
Mew2King41
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick661
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 73
• LUISG 27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt526
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
14h 20m
The PondCast
1d
KCM Race Survival
1d
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Ultimate Battle
2 days
Light vs ZerO
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Classic vs Nicoract
herO vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs Gerald
Clem vs Krystianer
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
MaxPax vs Spirit
Bunny vs Rogue
Cure vs SHIN
Solar vs Zoun
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-03
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.