On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote: Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player.
Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen.
If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him.
Facts are not elitism.
No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable. On top of that, Milkis is quite ignorant of the other ESPORTS scenes and was ignorant of the BW scene until 2010. Wheat was involved in BW long before Milkis was.
And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one.
[22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D
why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing
On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote: Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player.
Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen.
If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him.
Facts are not elitism.
Oh, now it's facts. Used to be an opinion before! At least now you've shown your true face.
Or it could be that I'm not addressing the same thing, you know.
Fact is that the Brood War is the most advanced e-sport, and the only one that has ever functioned and been successful in the long term.
Fact is that all western e-sports have consistently failed to reach any similar level of exposure and even survive in the long run.
When people bring these up, it's not elitism, it's facts.
Opinion is which games (if any) you consider to be legitimate e-sports or not and what your personal criteria for that are. This is where one can be elitist.
That's fine. (I feel like those exact facts are debatable, but let's just assume they're true for this) If he had presented those facts, and been like, "Now we have a chance for everything to grow even better!" there wouldn't have been all this hullaballoo.
Instead he presented those facts, and then said, "the reason that western esports aren't at the same level, is because they don't have an audience that can watch without having played" and then implied that because of this reason, they are not sports.
Which, whether you like it or not, is insulting to a large number of people
You mean
"Some have call eSports an idea, an ideal. But perhaps the idea isn't pushed hard enough or pulled up high enough, given that these people are often the types of individuals who would label various games as an eSports."
Which basically appeared in the first paragraph of what he wrote?
People might get upset by the latter part of that quote, but he clearly stated his intention of that was to show an ideal E-sports can strive for.
On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote: Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player.
Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen.
If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him.
Facts are not elitism.
No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable. On top of that, Milkis is quite ignorant of the other ESPORTS scenes and was ignorant of the BW scene until 2010. Wheat was involved in BW long before Milkis was.
And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one.
[22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D
why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing
LOL, is this kindergarden or what?
He got what he wanted, so I dont understand all of this "I'm quiting" stuff now.
And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one.
[22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D
why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing
This post just shed some new light on the story. I didn't have an opinion on Milkis, the Korean translator who was generally rude at MLG events. Now I have an opinion and it's a negative one.
I can see why you wanna leave, if you don't want to do it and your getting shit then why deal with the shit, I get that, but I want you to know that most people out there as I've seen in the comments to this post alone think your awesome and want you to continue but anyways I will say you will be missed by a lot of this community and good luck to you in the future, wish you the best.
On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote: Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player.
Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen.
If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him.
Facts are not elitism.
No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable.
Except that it WASN'T. His post has nothing to do with what you said. This is what's mind-blowing about that kind of argumentation - you intentionally misinterpret his post so that you can judge it that way.
Nothing he said implies any other e-sport is laughable. Where do you read the "laughable" part? This is what people who WANT TO get offended read into it.
Here is what Milkis said:
This is because while it is true that many of these games such as Counter Strike or Quake do have a large competitive scene, to call it a "sport", that is, to give those games all the implications behind such a word is a bit too far fetched. Some have call eSports an idea, an ideal. But perhaps the idea isn't pushed hard enough or pulled up high enough, given that these people are often the types of individuals who would label various games as an eSports.
Here is what I've heard people say Milkis said:
"He said fuck you to every passionate player who put hours into training for a game" - Lie.
"He said BW is the only e-sport and every other game sucks" - Same as above.
"He said every other game is laughable" - Same as above.
"He trashed every other game" - Same as above.
I could go on.
But what he really said was "it is a bit too far fetched to call (those other) games sports".
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily.
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily.
And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there?
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily.
And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there?
Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths.
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily.
And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there?
Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths.
Really?
Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here.
Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like.
On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote: Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player.
Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen.
If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him.
Facts are not elitism.
No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable.
Except that it WASN'T. His post has nothing to do with what you said. This is what's mind-blowing about that kind of argumentation - you intentionally misinterpret his post so that you can judge it that way.
Nothing he said implies any other e-sport is laughable. Where do you read the "laughable" part? This is what people who WANT TO get offended read into it.
This is because while it is true that many of these games such as Counter Strike or Quake do have a large competitive scene, to call it a "sport", that is, to give those games all the implications behind such a word is a bit too far fetched. Some have call eSports an idea, an ideal. But perhaps the idea isn't pushed hard enough or pulled up high enough, given that these people are often the types of individuals who would label various games as an eSports.
Here is what I've heard people say Milkis said:
"He said fuck you to every passionate player who put hours into training for a game" - Lie.
"He said BW is the only e-sport and every other game sucks" - Same as above.
"He said every other game is laughable" - Same as above.
"He trashed every other game" - Same as above.
I could go on.
But what he really said was "it is a bit too far fetched to call (those other) games sports".
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
He said all of those esports you just listed weren't esports. It's pretty much the ultimate insult.
Legitimacy is pretty big in the esports world. People try and try to make sure that what they have invested their life in is worth something (anything). Milkis just voluntarily said no to all of them, in and the process pointed to Brood War as the only acceptable video game to be considered an esport.
On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote: Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player.
Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen.
If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him.
Facts are not elitism.
No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable.
Except that it WASN'T. His post has nothing to do with what you said. This is what's mind-blowing about that kind of argumentation - you intentionally misinterpret his post so that you can judge it that way.
Nothing he said implies any other e-sport is laughable. Where do you read the "laughable" part? This is what people who WANT TO get offended read into it.
Here is what Milkis said:
This is because while it is true that many of these games such as Counter Strike or Quake do have a large competitive scene, to call it a "sport", that is, to give those games all the implications behind such a word is a bit too far fetched. Some have call eSports an idea, an ideal. But perhaps the idea isn't pushed hard enough or pulled up high enough, given that these people are often the types of individuals who would label various games as an eSports.
Here is what I've heard people say Milkis said:
"He said fuck you to every passionate player who put hours into training for a game" - Lie.
"He said BW is the only e-sport and every other game sucks" - Same as above.
"He said every other game is laughable" - Same as above.
"He trashed every other game" - Same as above.
I could go on.
But what he really said was "it is a bit too far fetched to call (those other) games sports".
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
He said all of those esports you just listed weren't esports. It's pretty much the ultimate insult.
Legitimacy is pretty big in the esports world. People try and try to make sure that what they have invested their life in is worth something (anything). Milkis just voluntarily said no to all of them, in and the process pointed to Brood War as the only acceptable video game to be considered an esport.
The only big thing in the esports world is gamer ego as of late tbh.
You can take it as an insult all you want, but it will not change the fact that some games have simply accomplished more in terms of becoming something that can be considered a legitimate sport outside of the boundaries of its community and the hardcore scene.
I'm sorry if that offends you or whatever, but it's not an insult - it's you choosing to be insulted because you find it difficult to come to term with the facts.
On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote: Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player.
Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen.
If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him.
Facts are not elitism.
No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable.
Except that it WASN'T. His post has nothing to do with what you said. This is what's mind-blowing about that kind of argumentation - you intentionally misinterpret his post so that you can judge it that way.
Nothing he said implies any other e-sport is laughable. Where do you read the "laughable" part? This is what people who WANT TO get offended read into it.
Here is what Milkis said:
This is because while it is true that many of these games such as Counter Strike or Quake do have a large competitive scene, to call it a "sport", that is, to give those games all the implications behind such a word is a bit too far fetched. Some have call eSports an idea, an ideal. But perhaps the idea isn't pushed hard enough or pulled up high enough, given that these people are often the types of individuals who would label various games as an eSports.
Here is what I've heard people say Milkis said:
"He said fuck you to every passionate player who put hours into training for a game" - Lie.
"He said BW is the only e-sport and every other game sucks" - Same as above.
"He said every other game is laughable" - Same as above.
"He trashed every other game" - Same as above.
I could go on.
But what he really said was "it is a bit too far fetched to call (those other) games sports".
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
He said all of those esports you just listed weren't esports. It's pretty much the ultimate insult.
Legitimacy is pretty big in the esports world. People try and try to make sure that what they have invested their life in is worth something (anything). Milkis just voluntarily said no to all of them, in and the process pointed to Brood War as the only acceptable video game to be considered an esport.
The only big thing in the esports world is gamer ego as of late tbh.
You can take it as an insult all you want, but it will not change the fact that some games have simply accomplished more in terms of becoming something that can be considered a legitimate sport.
I'm sorry if that offends you or whatever, but it's not an insult - it's you choosing to be insulted because you find it difficult to come to term with the facts.
Wow man you have a superhero cape on while you're sitting here defending the defenseless? You should be a lawyer.
When I said it is the ultimate insult, it's not an insult to me (any moron would understand this). It's an insult to the players who have devoted their lives to these various games. but that's enough for me on the subject, i'll leave you and your superhero cape alone lol
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily.
And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there?
Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths.
Really?
Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here.
Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like.
So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive, and he was trying to be quite diplomatic about it from the way I read it) but Milkis' thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you?
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily.
And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there?
Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths.
Really?
Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here.
Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like.
So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you?
Wheat's first reply included stuff like:
But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit
and
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo. You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c. You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
Which is a combination of being offensive, inciting a flamefest and putting words into Milkis' mouth. Find me anything similar in Milkis' post.
Full post just so it doesn't seem like I'm quoting out of context:
I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years. You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice. You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level. You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo. You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c. You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong?
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break.
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily.
And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there?
Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths.
Really?
Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here.
Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like.
So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you?
I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years. You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice. You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level. You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo. You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c. You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong?
'Yeah man, Wheat said my opinion is bullshit and I insulted the life's work of some people....BETTER QUIT THE INTERNET'
Bullshit.
I wouldn't be surprised if you were a Milkis alt account at this point.
EPT
