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On October 30 2011 22:32 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 21:23 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote:
Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player. Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen. If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him. Facts are not elitism. No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable. On top of that, Milkis is quite ignorant of the other ESPORTS scenes and was ignorant of the BW scene until 2010. Wheat was involved in BW long before Milkis was. And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one. [22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing
Oh that's just plain pathetic then
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Was milkis being paid by MLG? Because if so I have 0 sympathy for him. You got paid to talk to some of the best pro's of sc2. I'll gladly be told i'm bad at something if i'm getting paid to do something hundreds would pay to do. If he was volunteering, then I don't blame him for not wanting to translate, but just leaving the sc2 community over it?
And with the whole dj wheat thing, stand your ground and make a debate, or just admit you were wrong and will grow from it. But just leaving the community makes him look even worse.
"Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever." Lance Armstrong
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I bet milkis wanted to quit before, he just wanted to go out with a bang
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At the end of the day, it's your decision, so good luck in your future endeavors.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On October 30 2011 23:19 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 22:32 Jibba wrote:On October 30 2011 21:23 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote:
Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player. Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen. If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him. Facts are not elitism. No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable. On top of that, Milkis is quite ignorant of the other ESPORTS scenes and was ignorant of the BW scene until 2010. Wheat was involved in BW long before Milkis was. And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one. [22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing Oh that's just plain pathetic then
Wow, I didn't think Milkis was like this. He knew he was going to poke, nay, stomp on the beehive and now he's complaining about being bitten? I had thought so much more of you man.
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On October 30 2011 23:14 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 23:09 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 23:00 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:59 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:58 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:56 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:53 Talin wrote:
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break. The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily. And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there? Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths. Really? Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here. Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like. So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you? Wheat's first reply included stuff like: Show nested quote +But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit and Show nested quote +You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. Which is a combination of being offensive, inciting a flamefest and putting words into Milkis' mouth. Find me anything similar in Milkis' post. Full post just so it doesn't seem like I'm quoting out of context: + Show Spoiler +I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong?
Thank god you put in the whole text, your use of quotes did not reflect the text. You are putting to much meaning in small bits of text, when people mostly is reacting to the overall picture of the post Milkis made.
Wheat is just saying that if Milkis version of esports is the only way, then those people are fucked as esport stars and legends.
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On October 30 2011 22:32 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 21:23 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote:
Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player. Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen. If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him. Facts are not elitism. No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable. On top of that, Milkis is quite ignorant of the other ESPORTS scenes and was ignorant of the BW scene until 2010. Wheat was involved in BW long before Milkis was. And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one. [22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing
"Far more amusing" -> Implying he knew it would generate diverse opinions on an open board and even sought the attention. Then took his ball and went home after what he knew would happen, happened.
I don't know how anyone can white-knight that.
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Three ways to deal with e-fame and the haters that come with it, laugh about it, ignore it, go emo and burn out posing I'm leaving forever!! Too bad you were in the third group :/
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I speak fluent korean and would kill to be in the presence of the people he translates for. He isn't some martyr...
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On October 30 2011 23:35 Jiddra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 23:14 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:09 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 23:00 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:59 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:58 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:56 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:53 Talin wrote:
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break. The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily. And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there? Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths. Really? Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here. Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like. So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you? Wheat's first reply included stuff like: But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit and You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. Which is a combination of being offensive, inciting a flamefest and putting words into Milkis' mouth. Find me anything similar in Milkis' post. Full post just so it doesn't seem like I'm quoting out of context: + Show Spoiler +I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? Thank god you put in the whole text, your use of quotes did not reflect the text. You are putting to much meaning in small bits of text, when people mostly is reacting to the overall picture of the post Milkis made. Wheat is just saying that if Milkis version of esports is the only way, then those people are fucked as esport stars and legends.
I don't see how are they fucked or how a game being a sport or not undermines their work and accomplishments. The game is still the same and the effort and passion they put in is still the same, and ultimately their results are still the same. Their commitment and skill isn't being questioned and undermined. They are still legends in their respective games (and beyond in the e-sport community).
As for being e-sport stars, are they really? Where are the lines of fans asking for autographs, the cheering stadiums, their parents in the front row, them giving interviews to journalists on national tv? Because when any person thinks of a "star", that is what he thinks of. And nobody can change the fact that for a lot of those guys, this isn't something that happened regularly and often throughout their careers (if ever for many of them).
It is what it is, I mean you can choose to ignore that for the sake of being politically correct and not hurting all the fragile egos out there (among the community I mean, I doubt any of those players gives a fuck about what Milkis posted), but when it is included as a minor part of a reasonable argument - mature people shouldn't be taking offense.
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It's the internet bro, stop taking things too serious about maybe 1k people are saying you suck when for example 50k say you're awesome and love you for what you do in this community
Man, the, fuck, up.
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On October 30 2011 23:43 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 23:35 Jiddra wrote:On October 30 2011 23:14 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:09 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 23:00 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:59 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:58 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:56 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:53 Talin wrote:
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break. The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily. And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there? Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths. Really? Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here. Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like. So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you? Wheat's first reply included stuff like: But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit and You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. Which is a combination of being offensive, inciting a flamefest and putting words into Milkis' mouth. Find me anything similar in Milkis' post. Full post just so it doesn't seem like I'm quoting out of context: + Show Spoiler +I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? Thank god you put in the whole text, your use of quotes did not reflect the text. You are putting to much meaning in small bits of text, when people mostly is reacting to the overall picture of the post Milkis made. Wheat is just saying that if Milkis version of esports is the only way, then those people are fucked as esport stars and legends. I don't see how are they fucked or how a game being a sport or not undermines their work and accomplishments. The game is still the same and the effort and passion they put in is still the same, and ultimately their results are still the same. Their commitment and skill isn't being questioned and undermined. They are still legends in their respective games (and beyond in the e-sport community). As for being e-sport stars, are they really? Where are the lines of fans asking for autographs, the cheering stadiums, their parents in the front row, them giving interviews to journalists on national tv? Because when any person thinks of a "star", that is what he thinks of. And nobody can change the fact that for a lot of those guys, this isn't something that happened regularly and often throughout their careers (if ever for many of them). It is what it is, I mean you can choose to ignore that for the sake of being politically correct and not hurting all the fragile egos out there (among the community I mean, I doubt any of those players gives a fuck about what Milkis posted), but when it is included as a minor part of a reasonable argument - mature people shouldn't be taking offense.
We get it, you really really like milkis and really really want to defend him (you wrote approximately 3 full pages of posts defending him in this thread).
Fact is : people got offended, so something must have been offensive somewhere. I'll let you figure out what was offensive exactly.
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On October 30 2011 15:55 suejak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 15:52 Grantiere wrote:
Wheat. This is on his thin skin nearly as much as it is on Milkis'. Milkis was broadly disparaging, but wasn't personal. Wheat clearly took it personally and responded pejoratively. It's understandable that wheat take exception to the insinuation that he basically spent the last decade of his life contributing to what amounts to minor league baseball / the CFL / MLS. Still, Milkis wasn't flipping him the bird, and Daigo and Justin Wong certainly don't give a shit what Milkis thinks. Okay, so wheat thinks a series of "fuck you"s passes for normal debate; that's his personality (see - Slasher). He doesn't need to be so insecure as to use his own greater standing in the community to shout down Milkis, especially when he has a perfectly good forum (his show) to have, you know, an actual conversation with him.
Amazing points - 10/10. Of course, DJWheat bristles all the time on the internet. He picks fights and jumps on bandwagons. He's sort of our shock jock. He's cool. But I think you're 100% right that he took things personally, started the hate train, and abused his status here.
I was in the reddit thread the second milkis posted it - and people called out milkis' bullshit before Wheat did - wheat just has a more out-spoken way of voicing his opinion...
Does not change the fact that ABSOLUTELY NOONE AGREED with Milkis' point of "lol BW is only real eSport" BEFORE wheat came in and threw off his (justified) rant...
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On October 30 2011 23:58 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 23:43 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:35 Jiddra wrote:On October 30 2011 23:14 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:09 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 23:00 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:59 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:58 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:56 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:53 Talin wrote:
Yes, saying "A BIT TOO FAR FETCHED" (with very reasonable argumentation as to why this is the case in his opinion) justifies a fucking witch hunt people started to make up for this great offense and injustice brought upon them.
Give me a break. The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily. And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there? Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths. Really? Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here. Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like. So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you? Wheat's first reply included stuff like: But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit and You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. Which is a combination of being offensive, inciting a flamefest and putting words into Milkis' mouth. Find me anything similar in Milkis' post. Full post just so it doesn't seem like I'm quoting out of context: + Show Spoiler +I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? Thank god you put in the whole text, your use of quotes did not reflect the text. You are putting to much meaning in small bits of text, when people mostly is reacting to the overall picture of the post Milkis made. Wheat is just saying that if Milkis version of esports is the only way, then those people are fucked as esport stars and legends. I don't see how are they fucked or how a game being a sport or not undermines their work and accomplishments. The game is still the same and the effort and passion they put in is still the same, and ultimately their results are still the same. Their commitment and skill isn't being questioned and undermined. They are still legends in their respective games (and beyond in the e-sport community). As for being e-sport stars, are they really? Where are the lines of fans asking for autographs, the cheering stadiums, their parents in the front row, them giving interviews to journalists on national tv? Because when any person thinks of a "star", that is what he thinks of. And nobody can change the fact that for a lot of those guys, this isn't something that happened regularly and often throughout their careers (if ever for many of them). It is what it is, I mean you can choose to ignore that for the sake of being politically correct and not hurting all the fragile egos out there (among the community I mean, I doubt any of those players gives a fuck about what Milkis posted), but when it is included as a minor part of a reasonable argument - mature people shouldn't be taking offense. We get it, you really really like milkis and really really want to defend him (you wrote approximately 3 full pages of posts defending him in this thread). Fact is : people got offended, so something must have been offensive somewhere. I'll let you figure out what was offensive exactly.
I'm not defending him in even 10% of the posts, I'm defending what I believe in myself first and foremost.
Also your logic is flawed. Whether people take offense or not has nothing to do with whether the source of their anger was offensive or not. It's more that people generally don't want to hear things that they don't like hearing.
It's more of an ego thing.
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On October 31 2011 00:02 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 23:58 Roggay wrote:On October 30 2011 23:43 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:35 Jiddra wrote:On October 30 2011 23:14 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:09 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 23:00 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:59 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:58 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:56 Lior wrote:
[quote]
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily. And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there? Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths. Really? Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here. Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like. So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you? Wheat's first reply included stuff like: But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit and You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. Which is a combination of being offensive, inciting a flamefest and putting words into Milkis' mouth. Find me anything similar in Milkis' post. Full post just so it doesn't seem like I'm quoting out of context: + Show Spoiler +I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? Thank god you put in the whole text, your use of quotes did not reflect the text. You are putting to much meaning in small bits of text, when people mostly is reacting to the overall picture of the post Milkis made. Wheat is just saying that if Milkis version of esports is the only way, then those people are fucked as esport stars and legends. I don't see how are they fucked or how a game being a sport or not undermines their work and accomplishments. The game is still the same and the effort and passion they put in is still the same, and ultimately their results are still the same. Their commitment and skill isn't being questioned and undermined. They are still legends in their respective games (and beyond in the e-sport community). As for being e-sport stars, are they really? Where are the lines of fans asking for autographs, the cheering stadiums, their parents in the front row, them giving interviews to journalists on national tv? Because when any person thinks of a "star", that is what he thinks of. And nobody can change the fact that for a lot of those guys, this isn't something that happened regularly and often throughout their careers (if ever for many of them). It is what it is, I mean you can choose to ignore that for the sake of being politically correct and not hurting all the fragile egos out there (among the community I mean, I doubt any of those players gives a fuck about what Milkis posted), but when it is included as a minor part of a reasonable argument - mature people shouldn't be taking offense. We get it, you really really like milkis and really really want to defend him (you wrote approximately 3 full pages of posts defending him in this thread). Fact is : people got offended, so something must have been offensive somewhere. I'll let you figure out what was offensive exactly. I'm not defending him in even 10% of the posts, I'm defending what I believe in myself first and foremost. Also your logic is flawed. Whether people take offense or not has nothing to do with whether the source of their anger was offensive or not. It's more that people generally don't want to hear things that they don't like hearing. It's more of an ego thing.
I know I won't ever change your opinion on the matter and that it is useless to argument on the internet.
So i'll leave it at that : I believe you are wrong.
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On October 31 2011 00:02 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 23:58 Roggay wrote:On October 30 2011 23:43 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:35 Jiddra wrote:On October 30 2011 23:14 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:09 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 23:00 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:59 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:58 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:56 Lior wrote:
[quote]
The witch hunt is mostly in his and your head, no one got really offensive about it, just counter argued, Milkis is just a little drama queen that gets his e-feelings hurt ever so easily. And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there? Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths. Really? Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here. Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like. So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you? Wheat's first reply included stuff like: But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit and You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. Which is a combination of being offensive, inciting a flamefest and putting words into Milkis' mouth. Find me anything similar in Milkis' post. Full post just so it doesn't seem like I'm quoting out of context: + Show Spoiler +I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? Thank god you put in the whole text, your use of quotes did not reflect the text. You are putting to much meaning in small bits of text, when people mostly is reacting to the overall picture of the post Milkis made. Wheat is just saying that if Milkis version of esports is the only way, then those people are fucked as esport stars and legends. I don't see how are they fucked or how a game being a sport or not undermines their work and accomplishments. The game is still the same and the effort and passion they put in is still the same, and ultimately their results are still the same. Their commitment and skill isn't being questioned and undermined. They are still legends in their respective games (and beyond in the e-sport community). As for being e-sport stars, are they really? Where are the lines of fans asking for autographs, the cheering stadiums, their parents in the front row, them giving interviews to journalists on national tv? Because when any person thinks of a "star", that is what he thinks of. And nobody can change the fact that for a lot of those guys, this isn't something that happened regularly and often throughout their careers (if ever for many of them). It is what it is, I mean you can choose to ignore that for the sake of being politically correct and not hurting all the fragile egos out there (among the community I mean, I doubt any of those players gives a fuck about what Milkis posted), but when it is included as a minor part of a reasonable argument - mature people shouldn't be taking offense. We get it, you really really like milkis and really really want to defend him (you wrote approximately 3 full pages of posts defending him in this thread). Fact is : people got offended, so something must have been offensive somewhere. I'll let you figure out what was offensive exactly. I'm not defending him in even 10% of the posts, I'm defending what I believe in myself first and foremost. Also your logic is flawed. Whether people take offense or not has nothing to do with whether the source of their anger was offensive or not. It's more that people generally don't want to hear things that they don't like hearing. It's more of an ego thing.
no you're just arguing that starcraft is better than counter:strike (read: all other games), good luck with that
thats like arguing baseball is better than football (soccer) because its a national sport, again, good luck with that
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On October 31 2011 00:09 cilinder007 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 00:02 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:58 Roggay wrote:On October 30 2011 23:43 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:35 Jiddra wrote:On October 30 2011 23:14 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 23:09 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 23:00 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 22:59 Lior wrote:On October 30 2011 22:58 Talin wrote:
[quote]
And how exactly does putting words into his mouth and questioning his personality, contribution and skill as a translator come up as a "counter argument" to anything he wrote there? Those are not the only counter arguments people offered, now you're the one putting words in people's mouths. Really? Because almost all that I've read fall into those categories, starting from Wheat's and Zlasher's posts on reddit to most posts here. Find me one you think is a civil counter argument, and we'll see whether that is what the majority of replies are like. So Wheats reply was offensive (when he didn't actually even say anything the least bit offensive) but Milkis thread wasn't?What the hell's wrong with you? Wheat's first reply included stuff like: But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit and You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod. Which is a combination of being offensive, inciting a flamefest and putting words into Milkis' mouth. Find me anything similar in Milkis' post. Full post just so it doesn't seem like I'm quoting out of context: + Show Spoiler +I love how you are so passionate and intimate about the BW scene and what is stands for. But your ongoing attacks towards any non-BW related eSports is quite frankly fucking bullshit. You disrespect every gamer who has participated in eSports for the past 13 years.
You act as if no one else ever even cared about another game. That other gamers didn't put blood, sweat, and tears into their game of choice.
You claim that BW is the only eSport, but I think eSports is the thousands of gamers (whether they play CS, Carom 3D, BW, WC3, Street Fighter, etc) who have a level of passion for the game that transcends what's normal. The same gamers who compete on the highest tier of their level.
You just said fuck you to Justin Wong and Daigo.
You just said fuck you to Zero4 and Tox1c.
You just said fuck you to cArn and Frod.
How can you say fuck you to the legends who have put just as much of an effort into their game as someone like Flash or Jaedong? Thank god you put in the whole text, your use of quotes did not reflect the text. You are putting to much meaning in small bits of text, when people mostly is reacting to the overall picture of the post Milkis made. Wheat is just saying that if Milkis version of esports is the only way, then those people are fucked as esport stars and legends. I don't see how are they fucked or how a game being a sport or not undermines their work and accomplishments. The game is still the same and the effort and passion they put in is still the same, and ultimately their results are still the same. Their commitment and skill isn't being questioned and undermined. They are still legends in their respective games (and beyond in the e-sport community). As for being e-sport stars, are they really? Where are the lines of fans asking for autographs, the cheering stadiums, their parents in the front row, them giving interviews to journalists on national tv? Because when any person thinks of a "star", that is what he thinks of. And nobody can change the fact that for a lot of those guys, this isn't something that happened regularly and often throughout their careers (if ever for many of them). It is what it is, I mean you can choose to ignore that for the sake of being politically correct and not hurting all the fragile egos out there (among the community I mean, I doubt any of those players gives a fuck about what Milkis posted), but when it is included as a minor part of a reasonable argument - mature people shouldn't be taking offense. We get it, you really really like milkis and really really want to defend him (you wrote approximately 3 full pages of posts defending him in this thread). Fact is : people got offended, so something must have been offensive somewhere. I'll let you figure out what was offensive exactly. I'm not defending him in even 10% of the posts, I'm defending what I believe in myself first and foremost. Also your logic is flawed. Whether people take offense or not has nothing to do with whether the source of their anger was offensive or not. It's more that people generally don't want to hear things that they don't like hearing. It's more of an ego thing. no you're just arguing that starcraft is better than counter:strike (read: all other games)
Except that this isn't what I'm arguing at all.
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On October 30 2011 23:19 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 22:32 Jibba wrote:On October 30 2011 21:23 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote:
Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player. Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen. If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him. Facts are not elitism. No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable. On top of that, Milkis is quite ignorant of the other ESPORTS scenes and was ignorant of the BW scene until 2010. Wheat was involved in BW long before Milkis was. And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one. [22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing Oh that's just plain pathetic then
Actually this just makes shit even more confusing
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On October 31 2011 00:13 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 23:19 syllogism wrote:On October 30 2011 22:32 Jibba wrote:On October 30 2011 21:23 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote:
Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player. Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen. If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him. Facts are not elitism. No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable. On top of that, Milkis is quite ignorant of the other ESPORTS scenes and was ignorant of the BW scene until 2010. Wheat was involved in BW long before Milkis was. And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one. [22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing Oh that's just plain pathetic then Actually this just makes shit even more confusing
The way I see it, Miklis was searching for an excuse to quit. People wouldn't give him one so he decided to create the drama to create more sympathy when he quit.
There's a difference between "I quit because I am burned out/bored" and "Look! The community made me quit because the community is a bunch of dbags and I am tired of dealing with them!"
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On October 31 2011 00:16 Adila wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 00:13 brachester wrote:On October 30 2011 23:19 syllogism wrote:On October 30 2011 22:32 Jibba wrote:On October 30 2011 21:23 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 21:21 zdfgucker wrote:
Wheat was really nice considering his esports background and how Milkies basically trashed all of it. That whole definition argument is too stupid to really discuss it, sorry. And regarding BW elitism see my first post, I edited it. BW elitism has always been annoying even for me as a BW player. Except he DIDN'T trash all of it. You're making things up again. This did not happen. If you're going to hate somebody, at least hate him based on what he says, not what you want him to say so that you can hate him. Facts are not elitism. No, his post was like the Champion's League director telling the Wimbledon director that his sport is laughable. On top of that, Milkis is quite ignorant of the other ESPORTS scenes and was ignorant of the BW scene until 2010. Wheat was involved in BW long before Milkis was. And he knew exactly what he was getting into. He outright said he posted it on reddit instead of TL to stir the pot more. It's just another pity party with an invitation of one. [22:16] <Milkis___> i've unleashed a nest full of wasps [22:16] <Milkis___> :D why did you post that in reddit and not on TL? [22:18] <Milkis___> because reddit would be [22:18] <Milkis___> far more amusing Oh that's just plain pathetic then Actually this just makes shit even more confusing The way I see it, Miklis was searching for an excuse to quit. People wouldn't give him one so he decided to create the drama to create more sympathy when he quit. There's a difference between "I quit because I am burned out/bored" and "Look! The community made me quit because the community is a bunch of dbags and I am tired of dealing with them!"
lol, you think too much about it
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EPT
