|
On January 14 2012 05:47 blankspace wrote:
uh yeah you realize that even if something sounds perfectly clear to you in your head, people might need some time to process what you say. Especially if you speak a mouthful at once. It's not like you're writing an academic paper when speaking in class.
I can understand your paragraph while reading it, but I can also definitely understand how your peers might not have enough attention span to process that mouthful or want to.
As an example, as a math major I have to come up with proofs and solutions to problems, and sometimes they take quite a while to think of. Once I've come up with a proof, it seems so clear and obvious to me when I'm explaining it. However, for those listening for the first time, it's not because they aren't already familiar with my thought process. And vice-versa when I listen to other people or my professors lecture on tricky topics.
Although the girl you quoted sounds dumb, so part of it could be that you're with a lot of idiots.
Also, it's useful to give concrete examples first. For example, you could've given the example of the italian child first and then generalize, rather than put it at the end when people have already stopped paying attention.
No, there's a huge difference. I would usually acknowledge this like before today, but in Math, there is a logic, but it's a step by step process and is heavily complicated at times (or not obvious).
In Sociology, everything is logical, rational and connected. There are steps, but they read like any other sentence or rational thought.
You're right about examples first I think, or they need to fit seamlessly. Good idea and that girl isn't dumb, she's just like everyone else. We talked about the addictions of video-games (for some reason, people love to generalize fucking video-games) and they were saying how they don't like gore and thus don't like video-games and feel it can be a dangerous addiction. I'd be fine with that if their arguments weren't purely ANECDOTAL. Purely: "oh I saw my brother throw his controller once when playing Call of Duty."
This is the 300-level course though, a lot of non-Soci students I assume. Facebook too, such an easy subject for them to banter dumb things.
|
On January 14 2012 05:47 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:35 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 14 2012 05:29 babylon wrote:On January 14 2012 05:19 Torte de Lini wrote:
I raised my hand and said, exactly, casually with certitude: "I disagree. I feel that stereotypes should not be a way to identify minorities of other ethnic groups. I also feel that stereotypes within movies give a secluded notion of another race's culture (race is an improper term technically I believe, but I doubt they'd have corrected me). It gives the impression that if a child with an Italian background did not relate to the protrayal of an Italian within the movie, they might feel alienated by their own culture or people's history." I still had to read that twice in order to understand what you just said and even now I'm not so sure. But maybe I'm dumb. =X Are you suggesting that the hypothetical Italian child would feel alienated or that others would think the Italian child would feel alienated because of what is shown onscreen? I'm suggesting this, I'll give you an example. - Child sees Luigi, cartoon that portrays how Italians act when they're older (similar to how girls see princesses as slim and with long beautiful hair and think "I should look like that when I'm older)
- Child notices that people around him are not at all like Luigi and even himself doesn't have any traits like Luigi (stupid idea, but for instance Luigi serves Spaghetti and child has never had spaghetti before).
- Child grows up with the idea that he should act like Luigi or he won't be like the other general population of Italians
- Child grows up and sees he's not an Italian because he is nothing like what he saw as a child. Feels "anomie" or an alienation of his culture, may lead (for example) to depression or some shit
It doesn't happen to all and the counter to that argument is ezzzzzzzzzzzzz Is it more clear? H'okay, let's try this again, then. Try: "Going with what [X] said" -- with X being your other classmate who disagreed -- "don't you feel that an Italian kid, watching this film, may feel alienated if he hasn't observed any of this behavior before in anyone he knows? The film may be portraying, 'This is an Italian,' but the kid may get the mistaken impression of, 'This is what an Italian should be like,' instead, which may lead to all sorts of emotional problems later on if he grows up and feels like he's not acting as a proper Italian man should. Basically, the kid may confuse description with prescription." <------ ???
That's good, but I don't know how I could formulate something so much better written in my head before speaking. It's nothing like how I talk.
|
Time for my second class, will be back. Gonna try and be quiet I believe.
|
On January 14 2012 05:55 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 05:47 babylon wrote:On January 14 2012 05:35 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 14 2012 05:29 babylon wrote:On January 14 2012 05:19 Torte de Lini wrote:
I raised my hand and said, exactly, casually with certitude: "I disagree. I feel that stereotypes should not be a way to identify minorities of other ethnic groups. I also feel that stereotypes within movies give a secluded notion of another race's culture (race is an improper term technically I believe, but I doubt they'd have corrected me). It gives the impression that if a child with an Italian background did not relate to the protrayal of an Italian within the movie, they might feel alienated by their own culture or people's history." I still had to read that twice in order to understand what you just said and even now I'm not so sure. But maybe I'm dumb. =X Are you suggesting that the hypothetical Italian child would feel alienated or that others would think the Italian child would feel alienated because of what is shown onscreen? I'm suggesting this, I'll give you an example. - Child sees Luigi, cartoon that portrays how Italians act when they're older (similar to how girls see princesses as slim and with long beautiful hair and think "I should look like that when I'm older)
- Child notices that people around him are not at all like Luigi and even himself doesn't have any traits like Luigi (stupid idea, but for instance Luigi serves Spaghetti and child has never had spaghetti before).
- Child grows up with the idea that he should act like Luigi or he won't be like the other general population of Italians
- Child grows up and sees he's not an Italian because he is nothing like what he saw as a child. Feels "anomie" or an alienation of his culture, may lead (for example) to depression or some shit
It doesn't happen to all and the counter to that argument is ezzzzzzzzzzzzz Is it more clear? H'okay, let's try this again, then. Try: "Going with what [X] said" -- with X being your other classmate who disagreed -- "don't you feel that an Italian kid, watching this film, may feel alienated if he hasn't observed any of this behavior before in anyone he knows? The film may be portraying, 'This is an Italian,' but the kid may get the mistaken impression of, 'This is what an Italian should be like,' instead, which may lead to all sorts of emotional problems later on if he grows up and feels like he's not acting as a proper Italian man should. Basically, the kid may confuse description with prescription." <------ ??? That's good, but I don't know how I could formulate something so much better written in my head before speaking. It's nothing like how I talk.
Record how you talk like you proposed earlier? :D
|
It's kind of interesting because after reading the OP I can understand why you have this problem, or why others have to endure it. I'm not sure if it's really a changeable thing, some people just some across poorly more often than not. Also you're not a unique snowflake, so maybe watching fight club a few more times would help.
Also don't ever talk how you write, no one talks or even thinks how they write. I think there is a direct proportion of douchebaggery in the ratio of talkingness to writingness
|
TDL I think i know what the problem is, they can't see your post count when you're talking in class t.t
in all seriousness, it's important to remember to curb your discussion to who ever you're talking to: know your audience. If you're defending a thesis it's ok to go full out on your vocabulary, maybe you need to just tone it down for the class. Or you can just keep speaking really intelligently and hopefully the level of the class will rise to meet you, I've had it happen before so it's not impossible.
|
On January 14 2012 06:40 Endymion wrote:
TDL I think i know what the problem is, they can't see your post count when you're talking in class t.t
I fully agree. This is indeed the problem. Maybe TL should make a new shirt that costs a bit more than the others for the option to have your current post count printed on the shirt. 
|
Ooh, two writers posting here! yay! Good idea about knowing your audience, I feel maybe I'm trying too hard to impress than to show, in content, a good impression of my ideas.
So uh... nothing happened today in terms of progression. I started recording, but we never fucking talked about anything informative or concrete. We just talked about emotions that happened during the day. One of the girls fucking cried for God's sake. I felt it was an overreaction, but I couldn't imagine being in her shoes to understand the problem + context of her past experiences. :/
|
You could still post it if it doesn't take much trouble to do so. If it does, don't bother. If it doesn't then we can learn exactly how your class behaves and create our own perspective rather than going by your possibly biased perspective.
|
On January 14 2012 07:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
Good idea about knowing your audience, I feel maybe I'm trying too hard to impress.
Yes, that's what we spoke about before.
Those Disney documentaries are so overused in Universities. If a parent still shows the classic Disney films to their children they have to take some responsibility in enlightening their kids. It's easy to point fingers and society is always changing.
There are several viewpoints on this matter. I don't want to dive into it at this time.
On January 14 2012 06:39 Divinek wrote:
It's kind of interesting because after reading the OP I can understand why you have this problem, or why others have to endure it. I'm not sure if it's really a changeable thing, some people just some across poorly more often than not. Also you're not a unique snowflake, so maybe watching fight club a few more times would help.
Also don't ever talk how you write, no one talks or even thinks how they write. I think there is a direct proportion of douchebaggery in the ratio of talkingness to writingness
I wouldn't say that. That's why we have formal and informal writing.
Forums are pretty informal. ;/
|
The information is kind of private and she was fucking crying man.
To be honest, they didn't say anything typically dumb. They said usual university say with their own bias perspectives, I didn't even talk rofl
|
On January 14 2012 07:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ooh, two writers posting here! yay! Good idea about knowing your audience, I feel maybe I'm trying too hard to impress than to show, in content, a good impression of my ideas.
So uh... nothing happened today in terms of progression. I started recording, but we never fucking talked about anything informative or concrete. We just talked about emotions that happened during the day. One of the girls fucking cried for God's sake. I felt it was an overreaction, but I couldn't imagine being in her shoes to understand the problem + context of her past experiences. :/
On the subject of knowing your audience, I don't know how relevant this is but I live reasonably near Glasgow in Scotland. Not to put too fine a point on it, I am of high school age and, while tales of Glasgow have been greatly exaggerated, you are still likely to invite a fair amount of abuse if you don't talk/act in the expected way. Think Lord of the Flies with more tracksuit bottoms and less murder.
When I was 7, I moved up from the south of England. I doubt it's easy for non-native English speakers to tell the difference between Glaswegian and southern English, but for a native speaker there's a pretty fucking huge difference. Again, not to put too fine a point on it, but I sounded very different. For at least 5 years I endured a shitton of abuse just for speaking in a different dialect.
Teachers will come out with all sorts of platitudes, but most of them are utter bollocks, in my fairly lengthy experience. Anyway, where I'm going with this is that if you want to change accent/voice enough, it is possible. Not fun, but possible. Currently, I can switch fairly easily between a fair interpretation of a Scottish accent and a passable southern English accent. The words also change with the accent - I wouldn't come out with this paragraph here in a Scottish accent.
Find what works for your audience, and how best to translate your ideas to them, and speak to them in their "language". They don't have to listen to you, and they probably won't put effort into deciphering "different" things which come out of your mouth. You have to find a way to speak to them so they don't have to decipher what you say.
Good luck.
|
On January 14 2012 07:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ooh, two writers posting here! yay! Good idea about knowing your audience, I feel maybe I'm trying too hard to impress than to show, in content, a good impression of my ideas.
So uh... nothing happened today in terms of progression. I started recording, but we never fucking talked about anything informative or concrete. We just talked about emotions that happened during the day. One of the girls fucking cried for God's sake. I felt it was an overreaction, but I couldn't imagine being in her shoes to understand the problem + context of her past experiences. :/
haha, I think I would just start laughing if that happened in one of my classes... or at least give her a very serious "THE FUCK?!?!" look
On January 14 2012 07:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 07:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
Good idea about knowing your audience, I feel maybe I'm trying too hard to impress.
Yes, that's what we spoke about before. Those Disney documentaries are so overused in Universities. If a parent still shows the classic Disney films to their children they have to take some responsibility in enlightening their kids. It's easy to point fingers and society is always changing. There are several viewpoints on this matter. I don't want to dive into it at this time. Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 06:39 Divinek wrote:
It's kind of interesting because after reading the OP I can understand why you have this problem, or why others have to endure it. I'm not sure if it's really a changeable thing, some people just some across poorly more often than not. Also you're not a unique snowflake, so maybe watching fight club a few more times would help.
Also don't ever talk how you write, no one talks or even thinks how they write. I think there is a direct proportion of douchebaggery in the ratio of talkingness to writingness I wouldn't say that. That's why we have formal and informal writing. Forums are pretty informal. ;/
yeah I agree, i have had a lot of girls tell me that I talk exactly like I type and text.. As for formal papers, I usually just churn out 1st drafts in minutes and get As, so I don't think it's that disconnected from how I think/speak
third edit ~ uh oh, hopefully i'm not a douchebag by divinek's standards if I talk like I write t.t
|
I feel your pain man just on opposite ends of the spectrum. Your to thorough and well thought out for people to follow. I just spew idiocy out of my mouth with out thinking. I keep quiet in class as well. Just remember it might not be easy being to smart but it ain't easy being stupid either. In the end college is all about the pussy so at least the lady is warming up to you.
|
I feel like a teacher shouldn't restrict you like that. I have a class where it's mostly discussion. There are several people in the class who are eager to assert their views loudly and sometimes it's quite verbose and it's obvious they're really quite intelligent. The teacher does a good job taking the information in, no matter how convoluted it might be, and processing it as well as sharing the information to the others who probably had no idea what he was saying. Your teacher just seems like a bizznatch; she doesn't encourage you but put you down. But then again, I wasn't there to really consider the matter from different perspectives.
Because while you might consider what you said to be articulate and simple matter, others might not share the same view as you. For myself, I always feel a tinge of annoyance about the one person who vomits a dictionary of obscurity when the same matter could have been conveyed with a few words because of its simplicity. I feel like words should add flavour and uniquity, not bog down conversation. This is one quote that I thought of when I read your blog upon this matter: 'brevity is the soul of wit'. Not that you should adhere to that saying all the time, but it's just something to consider. If you have received criticism about this, judging from your papers, perhaps you should hesitate and see if you can convey your point with more clarity. After all, the purpose of your papers is to reach a general audience. What use is a great paper or a great idea you have to say if people just tone you out. An intuitive writer or speaker will conform their material to adapt to the audience. Even if it means 'dumbing it down'. It may seem galling, but hey it's at least better than killed thoughts.
|
Tort was the wrong kind of smart for these here forums
RIP Frenchman who puts mayo in his eggs
|
On January 14 2012 09:00 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 07:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ooh, two writers posting here! yay! Good idea about knowing your audience, I feel maybe I'm trying too hard to impress than to show, in content, a good impression of my ideas.
So uh... nothing happened today in terms of progression. I started recording, but we never fucking talked about anything informative or concrete. We just talked about emotions that happened during the day. One of the girls fucking cried for God's sake. I felt it was an overreaction, but I couldn't imagine being in her shoes to understand the problem + context of her past experiences. :/ haha, I think I would just start laughing if that happened in one of my classes... or at least give her a very serious "THE FUCK?!?!" look Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 07:53 StarStruck wrote:On January 14 2012 07:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
Good idea about knowing your audience, I feel maybe I'm trying too hard to impress.
Yes, that's what we spoke about before. Those Disney documentaries are so overused in Universities. If a parent still shows the classic Disney films to their children they have to take some responsibility in enlightening their kids. It's easy to point fingers and society is always changing. There are several viewpoints on this matter. I don't want to dive into it at this time. On January 14 2012 06:39 Divinek wrote:
It's kind of interesting because after reading the OP I can understand why you have this problem, or why others have to endure it. I'm not sure if it's really a changeable thing, some people just some across poorly more often than not. Also you're not a unique snowflake, so maybe watching fight club a few more times would help.
Also don't ever talk how you write, no one talks or even thinks how they write. I think there is a direct proportion of douchebaggery in the ratio of talkingness to writingness I wouldn't say that. That's why we have formal and informal writing. Forums are pretty informal. ;/ yeah I agree, i have had a lot of girls tell me that I talk exactly like I type and text.. As for formal papers, I usually just churn out 1st drafts in minutes and get As, so I don't think it's that disconnected from how I think/speak third edit ~ uh oh, hopefully i'm not a douchebag by divinek's standards if I talk like I write t.t
You just might be! And I was implying formal writing obv, which is very different from normal text which should be pretty close to how you talk (hopefully). Man I can churn out papers in negative time and get S+! I always find it pretty easy to switch between formal writing and talking to the common plebs of society
|
tl,dr, but:
this is suppose to be the top of the courses in Sociology: a specialized study about Sociology and Emotions. The class has no real structure besides reading various texts (that few read for some odd reason) and then it's just endless structure with the teacher being the moderator.
It may be a little off topic right now, but all I ever learnt in sociology class is that I have the right to be arrogant since I'm going to be a doctor and my patients are most likely middle or lower class. I am, however, forbidden to fall ill, for if I do, I will climb down the ladder of prestige and wealth and end up as an antisocial poor lower class bitch because I can't work as a doctor any more...
Wait. What? The hell with it. Don't let a frustrated sociology dude tell you you're "the wrong kind of smart" because they don't have the brains to actually live what they teach. I like your smartness 
Enough of that now. ~MARGE, get me my beer!~ XD
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
