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[PL Spoilers] Jaedong in the OSL

Blogs > Alsar
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Alsar
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States130 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-09 00:07:28
August 09 2009 00:01 GMT
#1
So after reading the winner's interview for the PL Finals and seeing how Boxer and Fantasy both spent a long time planning a super awesome strategy just to beat Jaedong in the ace match, and knowing that oov is there to give Fantasy strategies and help also, does anyone else think that this OSL Semifinals coming up between Jaedong and Fantasy is going to feel even more epic than the OSL finals before when they faced?

It seems like the three SKT players are going to be working together in full force even more now to beat Jaedong, and I think it's really amazingly epic.

On one side you have a single, lone hero, with amazing raw talent, and on the other side you have another equally talented player, with two huge, legendary masterminds standing behind each shoulder, meticulously planning and plotting genius strategies, and whispering secrets and strategies into his ears. Jaedong is going to be facing three players all merged into one come semifinals time, and after seeing that coming unprepared for it will make him lose like in the ace match of PL, he is really going to have to ascend to another level of play if he wants to win (like a super saiyan lolol). And, being a fan of Jaedong, I can think of nothing more epic in the world than for him to actually do it, using the anger from the PL losses as motivation, and rise to the occasion and pull off a win against not only Fantasy, but three of the best players of all time fused into one.

***
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-09 00:12:44
August 09 2009 00:11 GMT
#2
edit: Forget it, I don't even want to start
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51447 Posts
August 09 2009 00:12 GMT
#3
im expecting fantasy to easily 3-0
jaedong has had one of the toughest past months since flash a while ago
Commentator
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-09 00:13:46
August 09 2009 00:12 GMT
#4
Only if Fantasy listens to iloveoov more than he does Boxer.
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 09 2009 09:12 GTR wrote:
im expecting fantasy to easily 3-0
jaedong has had one of the toughest past months since flash a while ago

What a precious quote.
Jaedong
TealLurker
Profile Joined June 2008
United States791 Posts
August 09 2009 00:18 GMT
#5
I just felt that whoever lost in PL Finals would win the OSL matchup. I'm not expecting a stomping, but I can see 3-2 JD.
Wolfwood.
Profile Joined May 2009
United States68 Posts
August 09 2009 00:21 GMT
#6
i'm thinking fantasy has this.
nonduc
Profile Joined May 2009
Russian Federation405 Posts
August 09 2009 00:27 GMT
#7
What is the difference on Batoo OSL 2009 Final and on Bacchus OSL 2009 Semis?
티라노사저그 렉스 화이팅~!
rockon1215
Profile Joined May 2009
United States612 Posts
August 09 2009 00:27 GMT
#8
No matter what happens it's going to be great SC. I'll be pulling for (Z)Jaedong though
Flash v Jaedong The finals that is ALWAYS meant to be
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
August 09 2009 00:32 GMT
#9
Jaedong 3-0. or 3-2 if he's nice and lets fantasy wins 2 but i think he's too pissed right now to do that
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
520
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2822 Posts
August 09 2009 00:37 GMT
#10
If Jaedong can pull back and not let this affect him and win his series against Fantasy, then he'll really prove that he's on a level that other players aren't.
Writer
nK)Duke
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany936 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-09 00:39:17
August 09 2009 00:38 GMT
#11
On August 09 2009 09:32 tobi9999 wrote:
Jaedong 3-0. or 3-2 if he's nice and lets fantasy wins 2 but i think he's too pissed right now to do that


with these eyes?
[image loading]
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
August 09 2009 00:40 GMT
#12
On August 09 2009 09:38 nK)Duke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 09:32 tobi9999 wrote:
Jaedong 3-0. or 3-2 if he's nice and lets fantasy wins 2 but i think he's too pissed right now to do that


with these eyes?
[image loading]


With this face?


[image loading]
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
August 09 2009 00:58 GMT
#13
On August 09 2009 09:40 Megalisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 09:38 nK)Duke wrote:
On August 09 2009 09:32 tobi9999 wrote:
Jaedong 3-0. or 3-2 if he's nice and lets fantasy wins 2 but i think he's too pissed right now to do that


with these eyes?
[image loading]


With this face?


[image loading]


I admit, I lol'd.

I think Jaedong can pull it off, and prove he is better than Fantasy.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
vRoOk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1024 Posts
August 09 2009 01:55 GMT
#14
It would be sad to see fantasy denied another OSL victory..

but it would be worse to deny Jaedong two consectutive OSL wins.. making him teh first person to do so since BoxeR.

I admit Jaedong got stomped pretty bad.. i have no idea what his mentality must be since losing to FanTaSy twice and then lose to HyuK an SKT1 Zerg..

but im still rooting for a Jaedong 3-2 or better
Breaking Bad
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 09 2009 02:04 GMT
#15
3-0 Fantasy, with 3 bunker rushes.

The Boxer fan in me would love to see professional Starcraft come full circle, back to that fateful night 8 years ago that made a champion.
Moderator
Fr33t
Profile Joined June 2008
United States1128 Posts
August 09 2009 02:16 GMT
#16
I really wouldn't say fantasy is on par with Jaedong in terms of raw talent. The only reason he has really been able to keep up have been the incredible strategies crafted by two previous bonjwas and even they weren't enough to win him the last OSL. Jaedong will come through.
"Wow you could literally transport Lomo's face to a girl and the result would be pretty deceptive."
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 09 2009 02:33 GMT
#17
On August 09 2009 11:16 Fr33t wrote:
I really wouldn't say fantasy is on par with Jaedong in terms of raw talent. The only reason he has really been able to keep up have been the incredible strategies crafted by two previous bonjwas and even they weren't enough to win him the last OSL. Jaedong will come through.

I feel like this really doesn't give Fantasy enough credit. You have to realize that if it was all just about learning strategies from the Terran masters, Canata would have broken out 3 years ago. To paraphrase Fakesteve, "Jaedong is better, but Fantasy is smarter." While the trigger in Fantasy's success is certainly the aid of oov and Boxer, to say that a large portion of it isn't his own talent seems to oversimplify things. The ability to process 9 years of professional Starcraft experience is not an easy feat.
Moderator
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 09 2009 02:53 GMT
#18
On August 09 2009 11:33 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 11:16 Fr33t wrote:
I really wouldn't say fantasy is on par with Jaedong in terms of raw talent. The only reason he has really been able to keep up have been the incredible strategies crafted by two previous bonjwas and even they weren't enough to win him the last OSL. Jaedong will come through.

I feel like this really doesn't give Fantasy enough credit. You have to realize that if it was all just about learning strategies from the Terran masters, Canata would have broken out 3 years ago. To paraphrase Fakesteve, "Jaedong is better, but Fantasy is smarter." While the trigger in Fantasy's success is certainly the aid of oov and Boxer, to say that a large portion of it isn't his own talent seems to oversimplify things. The ability to process 9 years of professional Starcraft experience is not an easy feat.

How is fantasy smarter? What decisions does he make in-game (TvZ, not TvP/TvT) that warrant this?
I remember this video came up a while ago:

When has fantasy made decisions like this? To be honest, I haven't watched very many games from fantasy. The only ones I can really remember were from his BO5 with Jaedong, but every single game he played was rehearsed and planned-out. Like he prepared everything out thoroughly beforehand and then hammered it out in practice. Sure, he doesn't play like a robot, but nothing he did struck me as "smart," either.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
August 09 2009 03:03 GMT
#19
On August 09 2009 11:53 Saracen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 11:33 TheYango wrote:
On August 09 2009 11:16 Fr33t wrote:
I really wouldn't say fantasy is on par with Jaedong in terms of raw talent. The only reason he has really been able to keep up have been the incredible strategies crafted by two previous bonjwas and even they weren't enough to win him the last OSL. Jaedong will come through.

I feel like this really doesn't give Fantasy enough credit. You have to realize that if it was all just about learning strategies from the Terran masters, Canata would have broken out 3 years ago. To paraphrase Fakesteve, "Jaedong is better, but Fantasy is smarter." While the trigger in Fantasy's success is certainly the aid of oov and Boxer, to say that a large portion of it isn't his own talent seems to oversimplify things. The ability to process 9 years of professional Starcraft experience is not an easy feat.

How is fantasy smarter? What decisions does he make in-game (TvZ, not TvP/TvT) that warrant this?
I remember this video came up a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R7maYAAKk&eurl=http://
When has fantasy made decisions like this? To be honest, I haven't watched very many games from fantasy. The only ones I can really remember were from his BO5 with Jaedong, but every single game he played was rehearsed and planned-out. Like he prepared everything out thoroughly beforehand and then hammered it out in practice. Sure, he doesn't play like a robot, but nothing he did struck me as "smart," either.

Why don't TvP/TvT count? His contain break against HiyA was fantastic and the decision to leave his tanks at home on day 1 vs Jd was brilliant.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
August 09 2009 03:06 GMT
#20
On August 09 2009 11:53 Saracen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 11:33 TheYango wrote:
On August 09 2009 11:16 Fr33t wrote:
I really wouldn't say fantasy is on par with Jaedong in terms of raw talent. The only reason he has really been able to keep up have been the incredible strategies crafted by two previous bonjwas and even they weren't enough to win him the last OSL. Jaedong will come through.

I feel like this really doesn't give Fantasy enough credit. You have to realize that if it was all just about learning strategies from the Terran masters, Canata would have broken out 3 years ago. To paraphrase Fakesteve, "Jaedong is better, but Fantasy is smarter." While the trigger in Fantasy's success is certainly the aid of oov and Boxer, to say that a large portion of it isn't his own talent seems to oversimplify things. The ability to process 9 years of professional Starcraft experience is not an easy feat.

How is fantasy smarter? What decisions does he make in-game (TvZ, not TvP/TvT) that warrant this?
I remember this video came up a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R7maYAAKk&eurl=http://
When has fantasy made decisions like this? To be honest, I haven't watched very many games from fantasy. The only ones I can really remember were from his BO5 with Jaedong, but every single game he played was rehearsed and planned-out. Like he prepared everything out thoroughly beforehand and then hammered it out in practice. Sure, he doesn't play like a robot, but nothing he did struck me as "smart," either.

Honestly, when you watched that game originally, did you notice Flash's smart thinking?

If not, I doubt you would be able to notice the thinking behind Fantasy's plays.
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 09 2009 03:40 GMT
#21
On August 09 2009 12:06 BanZu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 11:53 Saracen wrote:
On August 09 2009 11:33 TheYango wrote:
On August 09 2009 11:16 Fr33t wrote:
I really wouldn't say fantasy is on par with Jaedong in terms of raw talent. The only reason he has really been able to keep up have been the incredible strategies crafted by two previous bonjwas and even they weren't enough to win him the last OSL. Jaedong will come through.

I feel like this really doesn't give Fantasy enough credit. You have to realize that if it was all just about learning strategies from the Terran masters, Canata would have broken out 3 years ago. To paraphrase Fakesteve, "Jaedong is better, but Fantasy is smarter." While the trigger in Fantasy's success is certainly the aid of oov and Boxer, to say that a large portion of it isn't his own talent seems to oversimplify things. The ability to process 9 years of professional Starcraft experience is not an easy feat.

How is fantasy smarter? What decisions does he make in-game (TvZ, not TvP/TvT) that warrant this?
I remember this video came up a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R7maYAAKk&eurl=http://
When has fantasy made decisions like this? To be honest, I haven't watched very many games from fantasy. The only ones I can really remember were from his BO5 with Jaedong, but every single game he played was rehearsed and planned-out. Like he prepared everything out thoroughly beforehand and then hammered it out in practice. Sure, he doesn't play like a robot, but nothing he did struck me as "smart," either.

Honestly, when you watched that game originally, did you notice Flash's smart thinking?

If not, I doubt you would be able to notice the thinking behind Fantasy's plays.

...or any other gamer, for that matter? Then how can one be the judge for when a player plays "smart"?

The point I'm trying to make is that it seems that too many people are jumping on the fantasy-is-a-genius-because-he-does-so-many-innovative-builds-and-different-cheeses bandwagon rather than in-game decisions, when all of that is actually beforehand preparation and can just as well be attributed to the coaching staff. It's just from my point of view, though, so I can't really comment on his TvT/TvP.
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-09 03:50:57
August 09 2009 03:50 GMT
#22
On August 09 2009 09:12 GTR wrote:
im expecting fantasy to easily 3-0
jaedong has had one of the toughest past months since flash a while ago



I expected GTR to eat his underwear like he promised but that never happened...
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-09 04:06:43
August 09 2009 04:02 GMT
#23
On August 09 2009 12:40 Saracen wrote:
...or any other gamer, for that matter? Then how can one be the judge for when a player plays "smart"?

The point I'm trying to make is that it seems that too many people are jumping on the fantasy-is-a-genius-because-he-does-so-many-innovative-builds-and-different-cheeses bandwagon rather than in-game decisions, when all of that is actually beforehand preparation and can just as well be attributed to the coaching staff. It's just from my point of view, though, so I can't really comment on his TvT/TvP.

As I said, if it were just the coaching staff, then how come Canata wasn't making Starleague finals back when people thought he was next in line to uphold the T1 Terran dynasty? How come Mong hasn't become a staple backup player? There's more to being arguably the best Terran in the world right now than regurgitating cheese from past bonjwas, and given that Fantasy's mechanics are not nearly as solid as his closest competitors, I'm inclined to say that it has to do with other inherent abilities that he brings to the table. Yes he has 9 years of experienced Terrans backing him up, but that doesn't mean it's easy to absorb, analyze, and apply that sheer volume of information consistently across scores of televised matches. Furthermore, there had to be something about Fantasy that appealed to Boxer and Oov. Something made him more to them than just buying another A- or S-class Terran, because we know that SKT1 is not afraid of buying players when their lineup needs the boost.

Would Fantasy be as good as he is without oov or Boxer? Most certainly not. Would Leta, Skyhigh, or Flash do as well with mentors like Fantasy's? Maybe, maybe not. Does that diminish his achievements or change the fact that he's one of the best and most entertaining players currently active? Definitely not.
Moderator
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-09 04:08:34
August 09 2009 04:06 GMT
#24
On August 09 2009 12:40 Saracen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 12:06 BanZu wrote:
On August 09 2009 11:53 Saracen wrote:
On August 09 2009 11:33 TheYango wrote:
On August 09 2009 11:16 Fr33t wrote:
I really wouldn't say fantasy is on par with Jaedong in terms of raw talent. The only reason he has really been able to keep up have been the incredible strategies crafted by two previous bonjwas and even they weren't enough to win him the last OSL. Jaedong will come through.

I feel like this really doesn't give Fantasy enough credit. You have to realize that if it was all just about learning strategies from the Terran masters, Canata would have broken out 3 years ago. To paraphrase Fakesteve, "Jaedong is better, but Fantasy is smarter." While the trigger in Fantasy's success is certainly the aid of oov and Boxer, to say that a large portion of it isn't his own talent seems to oversimplify things. The ability to process 9 years of professional Starcraft experience is not an easy feat.

How is fantasy smarter? What decisions does he make in-game (TvZ, not TvP/TvT) that warrant this?
I remember this video came up a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R7maYAAKk&eurl=http://
When has fantasy made decisions like this? To be honest, I haven't watched very many games from fantasy. The only ones I can really remember were from his BO5 with Jaedong, but every single game he played was rehearsed and planned-out. Like he prepared everything out thoroughly beforehand and then hammered it out in practice. Sure, he doesn't play like a robot, but nothing he did struck me as "smart," either.

Honestly, when you watched that game originally, did you notice Flash's smart thinking?

If not, I doubt you would be able to notice the thinking behind Fantasy's plays.

...or any other gamer, for that matter? Then how can one be the judge for when a player plays "smart"?

The point I'm trying to make is that it seems that too many people are jumping on the fantasy-is-a-genius-because-he-does-so-many-innovative-builds-and-different-cheeses bandwagon rather than in-game decisions, when all of that is actually beforehand preparation and can just as well be attributed to the coaching staff. It's just from my point of view, though, so I can't really comment on his TvT/TvP.

Hm, I understand your point completely now.

On August 09 2009 13:02 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 12:40 Saracen wrote:
...or any other gamer, for that matter? Then how can one be the judge for when a player plays "smart"?

The point I'm trying to make is that it seems that too many people are jumping on the fantasy-is-a-genius-because-he-does-so-many-innovative-builds-and-different-cheeses bandwagon rather than in-game decisions, when all of that is actually beforehand preparation and can just as well be attributed to the coaching staff. It's just from my point of view, though, so I can't really comment on his TvT/TvP.

As I said, if it were just the coaching staff, then how come Canata wasn't making Starleague finals back when people thought he was next in line to uphold the T1 Terran dynasty? How come Mong hasn't become a staple backup player? There's more to being arguably the best Terran in the world right now than regurgitating cheese from past bonjwas, and given that Fantasy's mechanics are not nearly as solid as his closest competitors, I'm inclined to say that it has to do with other inherent abilities that he brings to the table. Yes he has 9 years of experienced Terrans backing him up, but that doesn't mean it's easy to absorb, analyze, and apply that sheer volume of information consistently across scores of televised matches. Furthermore, there had to be something about Fantasy that appealed to Boxer and Oov. Something made him more to them than just buying another A- or S-class Terran, because we know that SKT1 is not afraid of buying players when their lineup needs the boost.

Would Fantasy be as good as he is without oov or Boxer? Most certainly not. Would Leta, Skyhigh, or Flash do as well with mentors like Fantasy's? Maybe, maybe not. Does that diminish his achievements or change the fact that he's one of the best and most entertaining players currently active? Definitely not.

Perhaps "smart" isn't the right word then? There's certainly something that's allowing Fantasy to carry out brilliant strategies.
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 09 2009 04:27 GMT
#25
On August 09 2009 13:06 BanZu wrote:
Perhaps "smart" isn't the right word then? There's certainly something that's allowing Fantasy to carry out brilliant strategies.

I don't see why "smart" isn't appropriate. Intelligence is not just fast decision making, but also information processing and retention. Oov has said in past interviews how Fantasy is a very fast learner, and his continual improvement since he became a major figure in the Starcraft scene should be fair indication of his ability to retain what he learns.
Moderator
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
August 09 2009 04:28 GMT
#26
On August 09 2009 13:27 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2009 13:06 BanZu wrote:
Perhaps "smart" isn't the right word then? There's certainly something that's allowing Fantasy to carry out brilliant strategies.

I don't see why "smart" isn't appropriate. Intelligence is not just fast decision making, but also information processing and retention. Oov has said in past interviews how Fantasy is a very fast learner, and his continual improvement since he became a major figure in the Starcraft scene should be fair indication of his ability to retain what he learns.

Omg haha. This whole time I was stuck on "smart" referring to one's play rather than one's learning.
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
August 09 2009 05:24 GMT
#27
It's not like Fantasy's horrible. He's a good player, but his strategies are a vital part of his game. If he played straight up and used normal builds, he wouldn't have made 2 OSL finals. However, I don't see why this makes him a worse player. People are good at different things, and Fantasy's good at executing precision strategies.
Jaedong
woooooober
Profile Joined December 2008
United States13 Posts
August 10 2009 00:19 GMT
#28
whether or not boxer+oov created fantasy, the coaching that they provide is certainly more than any coaching jaedong is getting. i think OP is pretty accurate--this is an epic match.
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