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Alrighty! Another worry thread!
Well, SC:BW's builds are strats are nicely varying, but most viable ones follow a very clean-cut Fork in the road sort of route.
With all of the extra things, like dark pylons, phase prism, etc., there will be a MUCH larger "tree" of viable possibilities. Good. Right? Maybe. it could take just as long to "develop" these strategies.
SC:BW didn't have these smaller doodads and was mainly focused on unit compilaton + fire power midgame, granted, there are some cheesy things.
SC2 Is more based on more of an abstract way of play, with more mobility and warp-in, proxy tatics. With this, there may never BE a solid build that is viable most of the time.
And if there would be, it'd take a long time to figure it out and work out the kinks.
Would blizzard change this?
Maybe the units/unit abiities mentioned are going to be the Zerg Queen of SC2?
Question?
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Disuss.
  
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i don't see the problem
on second thought... isn't this good?
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United States13896 Posts
Only thing that worries me is that all these new abilities/mechanics that they are adding are complicating the game and making it harder to follow for a spectator. Like how vespene gases shut off/on every so many gas mined ... convoluted things like that and the other added mechanics may make it more difficult to catch onto so quickly, as was the case in BW.
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I'm worried that it'll be exactly the other way around. Having units that are so versatile and strong that most strategies will rely heavily on them and there won't be a lot of other viable options.
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The only thing that worries me about SC2 is that the new units dont seem nearly as interesting as the previous units they are replacing, and all the new abilities seems too often gimmicky.
Oh yeah, and the whole MBS/low macro thing.
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I'm more worried that macro won't be nearly as important in SC2 as it is in BW. Recall the comments of people who have played the latest build in Korea (?) who stated that "one-base play is very good." I just love the focus on getting big and pumping units in BroodWar.
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On June 08 2009 06:52 p4NDemik wrote:
Only thing that worries me is that all these new abilities/mechanics that they are adding are complicating the game and making it harder to follow for a spectator. Like how vespene gases shut off/on every so many gas mined ... convoluted things like that and the other added mechanics may make it more difficult to catch onto so quickly, as was the case in BW.
Didn't they remove the geyser thing? I remember reading a Q&A where they said it was unnecessary and didn't really add depth, that it was more of an annoyance.
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United States3824 Posts
Sometimes I long for the days where there were no build orders (sorta no build orders) and you got by by the skin of your micro. Maybe this will be refreashing
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I think room for innovation is good for a competitive game.
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Boy do I have good news for you.
Starcraft: Broodwar is already out!
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On June 08 2009 07:21 cgrinker wrote:
Sometimes I long for the days where there were no build orders (sorta no build orders) and you got by by the skin of your micro. Maybe this will be refreashing
Dota sounds like the game for you.
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SC didn't really have set build orders or the kind we have today for a hell of a long time after release, and the longer this game has the better. When there are no "proper" build orders there's a lot of room for creativity, and this can lead to some really exciting games
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I think what the OP is saying is that he is worried there will not be builds that are good against most things. He is worried every game will come down to rock/paper/scissors where if you chose the wrong build you have no chance, but if you chose a different one you would of won. Isnt that what he is saying when he says he is worried there wont be a build 'viable most of the time'?
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well here is my opinion.
you know there isnt a clear cut build right for per match up. there are still new strats and tips coming up, like how KawaiiRice told Artosis about the use the Move command ot make sure medics dont heal while moving with the Marines+ Show Spoiler + or like Canata's early academy against BackHo this proleague match vs Hwaseung
Now if your saying all these mechanics will make it harder for a common stragety to be made, then thats good. Why? its actually more fun for a spectator because one: the commentator will have more things to talk about and they will actually have to analyze and commentate at a way deeper level. The spectator will be like "woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow {insert name of gamer... most likely Jaedong] is sooooo Gosu!" and will have more fun watching. The gamer will also have more fun because he will be like "nice strat... holy...". I keep hearing things like "back then loosing in sc made you happy". This time its going to make you happy, even after like 8 years after the release. Timings might be made.. but it will be more specific to a certain game plan.
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On June 08 2009 08:23 Mastermind wrote:
I think what the OP is saying is that he is worried there will not be builds that are good against most things. He is worried every game will come down to rock/paper/scissors where if you chose the wrong build you have no chance, but if you chose a different one you would of won. Isnt that what he is saying when he says he is worried there wont be a build 'viable most of the time'?
if this isnt some sarcastic joke, well, yeah. Pretty much.
Also @ Sonu, you pretty much got my thoughts right when you said (paraphrase) "If youre worried that with all the new mechanics it'll be hard to formulate a strategy .. "
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One thing that everybody keeps forgetting. It took SC1 about, I dunno, 5 or 6 years before it was "balanced" decently enough. You guys REALLY need to give SC2 a chance here to mature.
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On June 08 2009 06:33 SoulMarine wrote:
Alrighty! Another worry thread!
Well, SC:BW's builds are strats are nicely varying, but most viable ones follow a very clean-cut Fork in the road sort of route.
With all of the extra things, like dark pylons, phase prism, etc., there will be a MUCH larger "tree" of viable possibilities. Good. Right? Maybe. it could take just as long to "develop" these strategies.
SC:BW didn't have these smaller doodads and was mainly focused on unit compilaton + fire power midgame, granted, there are some cheesy things.
SC2 Is more based on more of an abstract way of play, with more mobility and warp-in, proxy tatics. With this, there may never BE a solid build that is viable most of the time.
And if there would be, it'd take a long time to figure it out and work out the kinks.
Would blizzard change this?
Maybe the units/unit abiities mentioned are going to be the Zerg Queen of SC2?
Question?
?
Disuss.
If you think proxy play, dark pylons and all that new stuff is going to destroy "solid" build orders then you dont know much about build orders.
let me explain...
if people are going to be proxying all the time people will adapt, as long as the game is reasonably balanced.
example:
If people proxy/cheese 60% of the time zergs will start 9 pooling 80% of the time...
once all the zergs are 9pooling every game proxy play will become unpopular, zergs will use FE builds after that, then people might start proxying again, so zergs will start 12 pooling into expansion then protoss will go for a heavy eco FE build....the cycle goes on..a builds popularity is going to be split into different perfecentages of use depending on what builds other players do, and how strong the build is against.
The point is, proxy builds and 9 pools can be solid standard builds too, but another point is they wont be because its too uneconomical and too predictable if its used to much.
This is exactly how BW has evolved.
Also, its extremely easy to find proxies as a zerg player, scouting the entire map takes about 12 seconds once you get 10 lings.
And people adapt so well to build orders...once a build order is out there its just a matter of perfecting a counter for it. A good example is FE dts/sairs vs zerg, they started going 3 hatch spire for scourge and to get ovie speed but also to get em making cannons...then basically 5 hatcheries was the perfect equivlent for economy and army size.
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On June 08 2009 10:10 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
One thing that everybody keeps forgetting. It took SC1 about, I dunno, 5 or 6 years before it was "balanced" decently enough. You guys REALLY need to give SC2 a chance here to mature.
GJ at reading the whole OP.
I was wondering about HOW long it'd take to mature ...
OMFG I JUST HEARD TERRAN LIFTOFF NOISE IN AMERICAN DAD OMFG!
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Well let's think about it. The next SC part of the trilogy comes out about a year and a half after the 1st part. (Guessing.) Which will probably release new units. THEN a year and a half after that is the 3rd part. Which will add new units. So it will probably take another 2-3 years AFTER that to be balanced.
Have fun waiting!
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EPT
