Dear Tl, where do I begin my Chess journey? Some background; so I was loitering in the book store (I'm a badass) and I noticed Bobby Fisher teaches Chess lying auspiciously on the book-shelf so I bought it and spent a happy few hours captivated by the puzzles. So I took the next logical step and started playing with some friends using the facebook chess application. Okay, before I continue, back-background. I've played casual Chess pretty much my whole life but, it wasn't actually Chess. It was more a game of observation, of simultaneously avoiding stupid mistakes and looking for the same mistakes in my opponent until someone had a material advantage. Okay, that said, I'm pretty good at that basterdized version of chess and combined with my new found ability to mate (for those who haven't read it, the book is basically a series of mating puzzles) I was a level 77 platinum grandmaster (soulcaliber 2 reference there; your welcome). Then I walked on to the Chess team and got... well, I wanna say raped but I feel that the term fails to express the soul-crushing completeness by which I was mindfucked. And now I'm here. What do I do? I know there are a plethora of chess resources out there but which ones are the best? How and where should I learn some openings (I need them)? What other books should I read; I remember reading that somebody here was pretty good a chess, I think it was Race (not to be overly casual and call you by your nickname but because I genuinely can't remember your full name ). Any help is much appriciated, thanks in advance! _PS, Don't know anything about Chess but still want a comment? Tell me what you thought about an epistolary style opening.
You basically get a really long time to make your move, so you can really think it out... And you can play many, many games at once, so you don't have to feel like you're waiting on someone either.
PS: [ indent ] if you really want to use it... Most of us just put a space
First, I want to say that if you've had no experience in Chess, even a newbie at the Chess Club should crush you. The difference is like the guy who played 5 campaign levels of SC vs an iccup player of basically any rank. So it's no big deal.
IMO, you really should balance between playing against other people while learning the game itself. Start with simple books like the equivalent of Chess for Dummies. Once you know the basics, you should have a good grasp of where to go from there. Openings, mid-game tactics/strategies, and end-game play are all be studied equally. To play there are plenty of online places. You are a beginner, so don't worry and just do your best.
Another note I want to add is that Chess is different from SC. You can't really hide intentions or go for rushes(except at very low levels). Don't memorize openings like BOs because you'd be screwed if your opponent doesn't do the "book opening" and you have no clue as to how to punish him for it
You basically get a really long time to make your move, so you can really think it out... And you can play many, many games at once, so you don't have to feel like you're waiting on someone either.
PS: [ indent ] if you really want to use it... Most of us just put a space
You sir, good sir, are a saint. I was pondering taking a course on Java just to be able to indent, I'll edit it now. I'll check out the site too, thank you.
First learn the mechanics. How each pieces move and their values. Then learn some build orders. I say that I actually mean some common openings and variations. You absolutely need to know how each opening plays out and which move gives you the more advantages. Memorize if needed. Then learn some end game mechanics. For example how to win with a lone rock (or at least know that you can win with Rock + King vs King), and how you cannot win with Knightx2 + King vs King unless in exceptional circumstances. For something slightly more difficult but also essential you need to know about end game pawns.
I personally find the mid-game difficult with pseudo-infinitely many variations. That's when you may want to rely on experience (play as many as you can?).
If you want some resources, try this to begin with (and all of his videos):
If you just want to play casually but better then just play on something like yahoo games in which there's a rating system. If you lose a lot your rating goes down and then you get to play someone around your level.
If you wanted to be more serious, you can join the US Chess Federation and play in tournaments. There are many tournaments for lets say, ratings 1200 or under or 1500 or under or whatever is the case.
To analyze games, Fritz is a VERY good program. After every move, the program gives what they call their best observed and calculated move and they update who is winning after every move and whether its horrible, mediocre, or an "ideal move". Fritz is awesome =) Also Fritz lets you play against any difficulty (a VERY good player or a REALLY BAD player)
On June 05 2009 12:31 baubo wrote: First, I want to say that if you've had no experience in Chess, even a newbie at the Chess Club should crush you. The difference is like the guy who played 5 campaign levels of SC vs an iccup player of basically any rank. So it's no big deal.
IMO, you really should balance between playing against other people while learning the game itself. Start with simple books like the equivalent of Chess for Dummies. Once you know the basics, you should have a good grasp of where to go from there. Openings, mid-game tactics/strategies, and end-game play are all be studied equally. To play there are plenty of online places. You are a beginner, so don't worry and just do your best.
Another note I want to add is that Chess is different from SC. You can't really hide intentions or go for rushes(except at very low levels). Don't memorize openings like BOs because you'd be screwed if your opponent doesn't do the "book opening" and you have no clue as to how to punish him for it
Thanks dude, yea; what you've mentioned has been a big problem for me. I feel like the only way to really do something is to hide your plan in the future. Like to literally out plan my opponent and I've been having trouble. That why I feel like I need the openings, from my perspective they allow me to mechanically get the board developed enough that I can start to make little plans; whats been actually happening, is I'll try so desperately to get everything out in the open that even my noobish brain can tell I horrible and irrevocably behind (positionally)
On June 05 2009 12:40 illu wrote: First learn the mechanics. How each pieces move and their values. Then learn some build orders. I say that I actually mean some common openings and variations. You absolutely need to know how each opening plays out and which move gives you the more advantages. Memorize if needed. Then learn some end game mechanics. For example how to win with a lone rock (or at least know that you can win with Rock + King vs King), and how you cannot win with Knightx2 + King vs King unless in exceptional circumstances. For something slightly more difficult but also essential you need to know about end game pawns.
I personally find the mid-game difficult with pseudo-infinitely many variations. That's when you may want to rely on experience (play as many as you can?).
If you want some resources, try this to begin with (and all of his videos):
I love this guy, I've been watching him even before this whole chess adventure (not really learning anything but just cause I'm fasinated my people who really understand something; odd parallel, I started watching Chill's strat vods before I started playing sc as well ). Thanks for the guidence; could you clear something up for me though, I'm pretty sure I know all the piece values and whatnot but why do people sac bishops for knights? Isn't the bishop=6 and the knight=5?
On June 05 2009 12:40 illu wrote: First learn the mechanics. How each pieces move and their values. Then learn some build orders. I say that I actually mean some common openings and variations. You absolutely need to know how each opening plays out and which move gives you the more advantages. Memorize if needed. Then learn some end game mechanics. For example how to win with a lone rock (or at least know that you can win with Rock + King vs King), and how you cannot win with Knightx2 + King vs King unless in exceptional circumstances. For something slightly more difficult but also essential you need to know about end game pawns.
I personally find the mid-game difficult with pseudo-infinitely many variations. That's when you may want to rely on experience (play as many as you can?).
If you want some resources, try this to begin with (and all of his videos):
I love this guy, I've been watching him even before this whole chess adventure (not really learning anything but just cause I'm fasinated my people who really understand something; odd parallel, I started watching Chill's strat vods before I started playing sc as well ). Thanks for the guidence; could you clear something up for me though, I'm pretty sure I know all the piece values and whatnot but why do people sac bishops for knights? Isn't the bishop=6 and the knight=5?
afaik, bishop and knight are both 3.
pawn 1 bishop/knight 3 rook 5 queen 9 king over 9000
On June 05 2009 12:40 illu wrote: First learn the mechanics. How each pieces move and their values. Then learn some build orders. I say that I actually mean some common openings and variations. You absolutely need to know how each opening plays out and which move gives you the more advantages. Memorize if needed. Then learn some end game mechanics. For example how to win with a lone rock (or at least know that you can win with Rock + King vs King), and how you cannot win with Knightx2 + King vs King unless in exceptional circumstances. For something slightly more difficult but also essential you need to know about end game pawns.
I personally find the mid-game difficult with pseudo-infinitely many variations. That's when you may want to rely on experience (play as many as you can?).
If you want some resources, try this to begin with (and all of his videos):
I love this guy, I've been watching him even before this whole chess adventure (not really learning anything but just cause I'm fasinated my people who really understand something; odd parallel, I started watching Chill's strat vods before I started playing sc as well ). Thanks for the guidence; could you clear something up for me though, I'm pretty sure I know all the piece values and whatnot but why do people sac bishops for knights? Isn't the bishop=6 and the knight=5?
the reti opening is the shite. It's so flexible and subtle. You can take the center or harass with the knight as its out so early
On June 05 2009 12:38 Polyphasic wrote: uhm, i'd suggest
gameknot.com for practice.
chessmaster9000 for their grandmaster tutorials that would cost thousands if you got it independantly.
watch Searching for Bobby Fischer.
And "" actually no, i don't remmeber the book. lemme look it up
thank you for advertising searching for bobby fischer, do you know where i can watch it live? if so pm me, i dont want to buy it but for 4 years ive always tried to find it on streams/torrents with no luck. torrents went until 10% or something and dies.
I would not recommend chessmaster because all the games must be played by a timer, and the engine just takes up time for no reason to emulate a real player. This is really ridiculous when they take 2 minutes on the third move.
A better option would be fritz, rybka, or some other engine. Chessmaster's engine isn't bad, but the program is just way too slow. Too much glitz.
Ultimately though, you should play real players. If you practice with computers for too long, you'll end up becoming a purely positional player. The high level chess engines are just wayyyyy too good tactically. If you get an open board it's very difficult to beat one. Human players make tactical mistakes far more often.
On June 05 2009 12:40 illu wrote: First learn the mechanics. How each pieces move and their values. Then learn some build orders. I say that I actually mean some common openings and variations. You absolutely need to know how each opening plays out and which move gives you the more advantages. Memorize if needed. Then learn some end game mechanics. For example how to win with a lone rock (or at least know that you can win with Rock + King vs King), and how you cannot win with Knightx2 + King vs King unless in exceptional circumstances. For something slightly more difficult but also essential you need to know about end game pawns.
I personally find the mid-game difficult with pseudo-infinitely many variations. That's when you may want to rely on experience (play as many as you can?).
If you want some resources, try this to begin with (and all of his videos):
I love this guy, I've been watching him even before this whole chess adventure (not really learning anything but just cause I'm fasinated my people who really understand something; odd parallel, I started watching Chill's strat vods before I started playing sc as well ). Thanks for the guidence; could you clear something up for me though, I'm pretty sure I know all the piece values and whatnot but why do people sac bishops for knights? Isn't the bishop=6 and the knight=5?
afaik, bishop and knight are both 3.
pawn 1 bishop/knight 3 rook 5 queen 9 king over 9000
That is a rough estimate, but it doesn't tell the whole story. A few simple things to note.
1. Pieces in general are worth more than pawns even if it's fair exchange(i.e. bishop > 3 pawns). Value of pawns vary depending on the situation. But for beginner, don't worry too much about such things. 2. Bishop pairs are worth more than Bishop/Knight or 2 knights. This is due to their ability to control both light and dark square. Bishops operate better under open conditions, and knights under closed conditions. But that said, bishops are simpler to use than knights(kind of like mech terran vs MnM terran) 3.Trading bishop/knight for rook is almost always a good proposition. 4. 2 rooks > Queen + pawn(or even 2 pawns) in general. 5. Everything above are just general guidelines. Use them for now until you know enough to judge yourself.
I have that book. It's pretty awesome. Another good book, if you're interested, is The Encyclopedia of Chess Wisdom by Eric Schiller.
Knights are usually better than bishops in the beginning since there are more pieces around to hinder movement. In the endgame, bishops are usually superior to knights due to their increased mobility. As for people taking knights with bishops, I guess it could just be used as a way of disrupting your pawn formation. I really don't know though. People who do this in the early game are usually just throwing away a developed piece.
Basic strategy for beginners doesn't involve too much. Basically, you just need to develop your pieces such that they influence important squares and are relatively mobile. To this end, try to take the center with pieces and pawns to control more space, allowing your pieces to move with ease. However, be careful not to overextend yourself. Castle early. Attack your opponent's weak spots, and if you get a material advantage, simplify to win. In the endgame, the king needs to come out to help support advancing pawns. Passed pawns can as valuable as minor pieces at this point.
None of the above guidelines are set in stone - experiment a bit.
A word of warning when playing on sites like chess.com - people like to cheat and use analytical software. I suppose this isn't much of a problem if you're trying to learn, not win, but it's still something to look out for. I suggest playing against friends on these sites. Not only will there be less cheating, but you can discuss aspects of the game as it progresses.
And lisakki, isn't there a "force move" option in Chessmaster? I seem to remember one, but it's been a while.
You basically get a really long time to make your move, so you can really think it out... And you can play many, many games at once, so you don't have to feel like you're waiting on someone either.
PS: [ indent ] if you really want to use it... Most of us just put a space
You sir, good sir, are a saint. I was pondering taking a course on Java just to be able to indent, I'll edit it now. I'll check out the site too, thank you.
I've been a member for years and it is easily my favorite place to go and play chess online. Also, no clue if you are interested, but you can watch GMs and IMs play blitz, which can be entertaining. Further, the club has tons of lectures on a variety of topics and offers live coverage of major tournaments.
Just out of curiousity, what is the strength of the players posting? My High is 1967 USCF.
I perform around USCF 1800ish although I have beaten rated USCF players above 2000. I am more of a blitz player/fan though. If you want chess you can play on school computers (like in computer labs) you can use instantchess.com. For your level its probably pretty good and its free.
On June 05 2009 12:40 illu wrote: First learn the mechanics. How each pieces move and their values. Then learn some build orders. I say that I actually mean some common openings and variations. You absolutely need to know how each opening plays out and which move gives you the more advantages. Memorize if needed. Then learn some end game mechanics. For example how to win with a lone rock (or at least know that you can win with Rock + King vs King), and how you cannot win with Knightx2 + King vs King unless in exceptional circumstances. For something slightly more difficult but also essential you need to know about end game pawns.
I personally find the mid-game difficult with pseudo-infinitely many variations. That's when you may want to rely on experience (play as many as you can?).
If you want some resources, try this to begin with (and all of his videos):
I love this guy, I've been watching him even before this whole chess adventure (not really learning anything but just cause I'm fasinated my people who really understand something; odd parallel, I started watching Chill's strat vods before I started playing sc as well ). Thanks for the guidence; could you clear something up for me though, I'm pretty sure I know all the piece values and whatnot but why do people sac bishops for knights? Isn't the bishop=6 and the knight=5?
afaik, bishop and knight are both 3.
pawn 1 bishop/knight 3 rook 5 queen 9 king over 9000
That is a rough estimate, but it doesn't tell the whole story. A few simple things to note.
1. Pieces in general are worth more than pawns even if it's fair exchange(i.e. bishop > 3 pawns). Value of pawns vary depending on the situation. But for beginner, don't worry too much about such things. 2. Bishop pairs are worth more than Bishop/Knight or 2 knights. This is due to their ability to control both light and dark square. Bishops operate better under open conditions, and knights under closed conditions. But that said, bishops are simpler to use than knights(kind of like mech terran vs MnM terran) 3.Trading bishop/knight for rook is almost always a good proposition. 4. 2 rooks > Queen + pawn(or even 2 pawns) in general. 5. Everything above are just general guidelines. Use them for now until you know enough to judge yourself.
and bishops are better in open games and knights are worth more in tight games
First of all: Check out #Chess on quakenet IRC (same server as #teamliquid). Over the years, a small community of players has established there, although the really skilled ones dont join anymore due to RL. Even though, I teach everyone who comes in there the general basics and give pointers - if wanted.
Teamliquid has some very good players: OnePageMemory, who is an IM, and SR17, who although without a title beat several IMs/GMs, are by far the strongest and competed in the final of the first teamliquid chess tourney (unfortunately the second tourney was never played out). Other noteworthy players are kdog3682, Xeofreestyler (who is ridiculously strong but rarely plays anymore) and micronesia, who started chess just some months ago and improved dramatically.
A quick overview about the most common chessservers:
ICC (Internet Chess Club)
ICC in chess is like... ICC in bw (duh). Seriously, it is the server with the highest general level of play, the place where strong players train online if they cant find someone in RL. Players are usually too busy playing and improving and have no time for flaming/bm. If you want to boast with an rating on an internet chess server, you can do it with an ICC one. The membership does cost money though.
Playchess.com can be compared to the battle.net - its free, there are a lot of good (and bad) players online and most people play for fun. If you buy Fritz or Rybka, you can play for 6-12 months for free, after that period you can continue to play though without the chat-feature. Since there are so many players, people will often ignore (=banning you from their games forever) or flame you when you win vs them, which sometimes can be really depressing. There is also a ton of features like live coverage of tourneys or observing GMs/IMs, which can be a lot of fun - Starwars (Nakamura) vs Rafael (presumably Kasparov) are always high paced games with a lot of energy. You can also play for coins, enabling you to prolong your membership or buy goods from the shop. Dont take the rating there too serious, it really means not much. You can win (or lose) several hundred points within ours, one guy from Germany once did a bet ant went from 0 to 29xx within two days.
Chess.com
Comparatively new site where most guys from our channel play nowadays and the best place for beginners imo. A lot of newbies in Live Chess as well as Online Chess (basically correspondence chess). Basically, if you know an opening and do and blundercheck before every move, you should be easy getting to 14xx.
That being said, you may just join our channel and play some games for fun.
I've been a member for years and it is easily my favorite place to go and play chess online. Also, no clue if you are interested, but you can watch GMs and IMs play blitz, which can be entertaining. Further, the club has tons of lectures on a variety of topics and offers live coverage of major tournaments.
Just out of curiousity, what is the strength of the players posting? My High is 1967 USCF.
Wow, a serious chess player.
I think my high was in the 1400s(can't remember exactly), back when I played from 8th to 10th grades. Then college preparation stuff got in the way and haven't touched a chess board since.
I am (was) a quite competetive player myself, got to 2000 ELO rating before university kicked in and I kinda stopped playing then. What I did, I went to a local club, got owned by 8 year old kids (oh my god that hurt my ego sooooo bad ), went home scratching my head. Got some basic books on strategy and tactics, studied them religiously. I went to that club 3 times a week, and I was getting crushed but I analyzed each game with my mentor. Month later those little smart-asses got what they deserved.
I started playing in real tournaments after that, and those are sooooooo valuable. I never really played online, live play is just so much more instructive. And you get to meet new people and you can ask them for advice and stuff.
Well, in short go join the local chess club. It took me a year to get my rating, and one more year later I was able to play against 2100-2200 players on equal footing. And I didn't even study theory that much. Some basic opening theory, some tactical stuff, quite a bit of typical middlegame positions. I sucked at calculating variations. The key was analyzing ALL of my games - preferably with my mentor. That, and good endgame knowledge.
Overall, chess isn't an easy game. I know plenty of intelligent people that will never get decent at this game no matter what. It takes a lot of talent and dedication to achieve anything substantial. This isn't starcraft which you can geek for a year or two and then be one of the best. Nope, nothing like that. It kinda depresses me to know that I will never achieve grandmaster title (I do have enough talent, believe me on that, but I don't have the dedication), but I simply love the game itself.
This thread got me thinking that I should probably start playing online as well, seeing how I practically haven't played in any live tournaments for the last year and my skill has dropped down tremendously .
On June 05 2009 12:40 illu wrote: First learn the mechanics. How each pieces move and their values. Then learn some build orders. I say that I actually mean some common openings and variations. You absolutely need to know how each opening plays out and which move gives you the more advantages. Memorize if needed. Then learn some end game mechanics. For example how to win with a lone rock (or at least know that you can win with Rock + King vs King), and how you cannot win with Knightx2 + King vs King unless in exceptional circumstances. For something slightly more difficult but also essential you need to know about end game pawns.
I personally find the mid-game difficult with pseudo-infinitely many variations. That's when you may want to rely on experience (play as many as you can?).
If you want some resources, try this to begin with (and all of his videos):
I love this guy, I've been watching him even before this whole chess adventure (not really learning anything but just cause I'm fasinated my people who really understand something; odd parallel, I started watching Chill's strat vods before I started playing sc as well ). Thanks for the guidence; could you clear something up for me though, I'm pretty sure I know all the piece values and whatnot but why do people sac bishops for knights? Isn't the bishop=6 and the knight=5?
afaik, bishop and knight are both 3.
pawn 1 bishop/knight 3 rook 5 queen 9 king over 9000
That is a rough estimate, but it doesn't tell the whole story. A few simple things to note.
1. Pieces in general are worth more than pawns even if it's fair exchange(i.e. bishop > 3 pawns). Value of pawns vary depending on the situation. But for beginner, don't worry too much about such things. 2. Bishop pairs are worth more than Bishop/Knight or 2 knights. This is due to their ability to control both light and dark square. Bishops operate better under open conditions, and knights under closed conditions. But that said, bishops are simpler to use than knights(kind of like mech terran vs MnM terran) 3.Trading bishop/knight for rook is almost always a good proposition. 4. 2 rooks > Queen + pawn(or even 2 pawns) in general. 5. Everything above are just general guidelines. Use them for now until you know enough to judge yourself.
On June 05 2009 20:32 IMlemon wrote: I am (was) a quite competetive player myself, got to 2000 ELO rating before university kicked in and I kinda stopped playing then.
Link to your FIDE or national 2000 elo rating account please.
and your post about starcraft is fucking retarded.
1. work on your endgames. it's a very important aspect because from the midgame, you will be able to make better and precise decisions for your endgame. Not all the time you can win with a significant material advantage; with precision, you can win your opponent due to greater foresight on the minimum material required for a win.
2. for starters, don't use clocks. it hampers improvement as one might form a reliance on time-up to win. especially blitz chess.
3. always record your games and ask 'why did i win' or 'why did i lose'. finding out the turning point of the match is always important.
4. Opening learning should be kept to a minimum until you have very very good foundation of the endgame. opening systems are quite developed now and are more or less 'there' already. Hence, i suggest beginners to take white at all times first so as to have a certain control over the opening.
5. review higher level games and try to put yourself in the player's shoes. what was he thinking? what was his intent? you can see the effect after a few moves. it's advisable to read a level only slightly higher so as to comprehend it easier. jumping straight to GM level might leave you totally clueless as to what he's thinking.
EPT
). Any help is much appriciated, thanks in advance!
.
