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So, I'm done tutoring, I'm done with my finals, and I've got no job, so it's pretty much party time + Starcraft time. I made D+ a week or so ago, and I've been struggling to stay afloat ever since. I'm getting knocked down to D, then shot up to D+ after one game, etc. Part of my problem is that ZvP was my weakest matchup, and of the 26 games I've played against D+ ranked opponents, 15 of them have been against protoss. That's 55% protoss. So my peak was 2196, and my current is 2114.
I say ZvP was my weakest matchup because I've been thinking a lot about what I should be doing against protoss players, as opposed to what I am doing, and how what I was doing before was wrong. More on that in the ZvP section. Unfortunately, while I have shown improvement in ZvP, I still get raped by 2gates, and apparently my ZvT and ZvZ have gone to the shitter since the last report. The ZvT hasn't really gotten worse, I'm just a bit rusty, and I've been running into mech every damn time.
This week there are 4 great maps for map of the week: Zodiac, Tau Cross, Destination, and Heartbreak Ridge. The 5th is Faoi, and honestly that's a pretty good map too from what I've seen. I think it's kind of too bad that all those great maps were put in the same week, because all anyone ever plays is Destination, and ZvT on Destination is approx. 100% mech. I honestly can't remember the last time I played against mnm on Destination. I should note that I consider 2port wraith to be a version of mech.
So basically, yeah, improved my ZvP, getting raped by mech ZvT, and my ZvZ finally took a turn for the worse, so I've actually got ZvZ questions for once.
1v1 analysis:
Zerg(35 games)
( 7)ZvZ: 2- 5 28.5%
(19)ZvP: 10- 9 52.6%
( 9)ZvT: 2- 7 22.2%
14-21 40.0%
This Season:
Zerg(101 games)
(25)ZvZ: 10-15 40.0%
(47)ZvP: 15-32 31.9%
(29)ZvT: 10-19 34.4%
35-66 34.6%
ZvZ: So, playing against D+ Zergs actually makes a difference in ZvZ. I go from being pretty strong ZvZ to having horrible ZvZ with one symbol. Seems like my problem is that I'm not very good at massing mutas, and not very good at deflecting muta harass. Like I'll be defending and massing mutas at my nat, and he'll come in and kill half the drones at my main and fly away. Other times, it just seems like I always have less mutas when the big muta battle occurs.
ZvP: So I've revamped my ZvP. My current game plan is as follows:
+ Show Spoiler +
I think at my level of play, my opponent's aren't really that good at determining whether they can get away with being greedy and going nexus before cannons. On top of that, almost every protoss on every map scouts me before I can lay my hatch and gets gay with my drone. So my opening is a bit variable based on what's going on. If there's no probe in sight, I 12hatch. If I see a probe (usually with my overlord shortly before it arrives in my main) I want to have a pool started by the time the probe sees what I'm doing. This usually results in the protoss going cannons first, and I respond by making a hatch and making drones when the pool finishes. The next larva are dedicated to lings to chase the probe. 3rd hatch at 3rd base, then extractor, 4th hatch and evo. when evo is done, I get range attack, then den. When den finishes, hydra range/speed (I've been getting range, but speed would probably be better for dealing with corsair harass now that I think of it). Then 2nd gas, a few more drones, and then hydra pumping. Lair pretty quickly after that, afterward anything else relies on how the protoss reacts to my pressure.
It could best be described as a shitty, unrefined (as of yet) version of 4hatch hydra.
In my honest opinion, my current understanding of ZvP/PvZ leads me to believe that Zerg has an inherent advantage until Protoss' tech tree is fully fleshed out, after which point the favor swings to Protoss. At least, I feel this is true at my level of skill (a level of skill that doesn't include storm-dodging and gosu muta vs archon micro). Also, in general, sitting back and letting the Protoss do whatever he wants for 8 minutes is just not my style of play.
Overpool speedling runby no longer works at D+, they've all seen it enough times. They just block the ramp. I'm not stupid enough to sac my lings before checking his ramp with my ovie though, so I still have map control and can deny scouting. But in the end my econ/tech was just too far behind from such an economically terrible opening.
As I wrote up the stats for this report, I was honestly surprised to see 10-9 ZvP, because I've only been doing the above build for a few games, before which I was basically getting raped by Koreans regardless of what I did. Though I should mention that 2 games were against 1gate tech builds (wtf?). I'm honestly stunned at how terrible 1gate tech is. At worst it's a terrible build, at best it's very difficult to pull off successfully. Honestly there's no reason IMO not to FE every game in PvZ.
Well, that was a lot about ZvP. I'd better move on.
ZvT: My ZvT record took a dive as a result of playing against mech, 2port wraith, etc, every fucking game on Destination. I blame the map for the gayness though, not the player. Fact is, Destination is a great map for mech.
I had developed my own little all-in build against mech, and had a little success with it. But apparently it has holes too large to fool better players. Part of my horrible record against mech is due to me using that shitty build of mine, though I'm sure I would have lost anyway.
Questions:
ZvZ:
1. When, if ever, should I invest in air armor in ZvZ? I feel that my overeagerness to get air carapace asap is partly to blame for my "less mutas" problem I stated above. I assumed whenever it was 2gas vs 2gas, I should get air armor. Is this wrong?
ZvP:
1. What do you think of the above build? Any suggestions? Is 4hatch hydra strictly inferior to 5hatch hydra? I like the pressure I can put on the protoss player with the faster massing.
2. Why would anyone 1gate? I know it's pretty rare at progamer level, though I have seen replays of White-Ra going 1gate tech.
3. If I choose to open with an overpool speed, for example, I choose not to scout since I'll have lings soon anyway. If then I find out my opponent went 2 gate, how should I play? It seems like without a 12hatch, Zerg just doesn't have enough larva to compete. Am I destined to lose?
ZvT:
1. What is the standard build against a scouted mech player? I assumed 2hatch muta, but that got rolled pretty badly in the couple games I played, even after deflecting his vulture harass with 0 to 1 drone losses. I was under the impression that 3hatch muta is just too slow to protect yourself. Any suggestions?
2. For Terran players, when you play mech and lose, how did it happen? Is there some timing window that you feel should be exploited better by your Zerg opponents? Or is macro the only way to beat mech?
Lots of questions this time; please give your 2 cents. Thank you.
As always, comments and constructive criticism welcome.
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for zvt
1. I'd say 2 hatch muta is pretty strong, even with a valk the player won't have more than 1 or 2 turrets in a given location with 1-2 goliaths and your mutas can easily handle that with a couple of scourges, lots of players will die pretty easily to it, or be badly damaged. 2 hatch can be vulnerable to a vulture run-by but if you see it coming you can protect your ramp and keep them out of your main.
2. I haven't lost any mech this season out of about 35 games and the only player I lost to was smi.lols, he was behind most of the game and just macroed off of three bases, eventually four later on. I pushed out with quite a substantial advantage but he kept threatening a backstab and I paused to push on his third. With that time he was able to complete his fourth base, build up more units, and finish one of his upgrades. eventually I moved on his expansion and I did kill it extremely fast, however I had 3 valks that were useless since he never got mutas and he flanked me well and I got steamrolled. mainly just because he had SO MUCH SHIT, I cannot stress enough how many zerglings and hydras he had. one key thing I noticed was he simply right-clicked his zerglings into my army, they flow in better that way and my tanks just blew my goliaths apart for the most part.
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On May 10 2009 17:41 DrTJEckleberg wrote:
one key thing I noticed was he simply right-clicked his zerglings into my army, they flow in better that way and my tanks just blew my goliaths apart for the most part.
That's very interesting idea, because normally zerglings are pretty shitty against mech, except in extreme circumstances. In your example, they were used as cannon-fodder then.
edit: would you say it's a bad idea to target fire your tanks to hydras in TvZ mech? Or was there just not enough time?
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On May 10 2009 17:45 Dromar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 17:41 DrTJEckleberg wrote:
one key thing I noticed was he simply right-clicked his zerglings into my army, they flow in better that way and my tanks just blew my goliaths apart for the most part. That's very interesting idea, because normally zerglings are pretty shitty against mech, except in extreme circumstances. In your example, they were used as cannon-fodder then. edit: would you say it's a bad idea to target fire your tanks to hydras in TvZ mech? Or was there just not enough time?
don't see how it could be a bad idea, I thought of it at the time but didn't do it.
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On May 10 2009 17:35 Dromar wrote:
1. What do you think of the above build? Any suggestions? Is 4hatch hydra strictly inferior to 5hatch hydra? I like the pressure I can put on the protoss player with the faster massing.
2. Why would anyone 1gate? I know it's pretty rare at progamer level, though I have seen replays of White-Ra going 1gate tech.
3. If I choose to open with an overpool speed, for example, I choose not to scout since I'll have lings soon anyway. If then I find out my opponent went 2 gate, how should I play? It seems like without a 12hatch, Zerg just doesn't have enough larva to compete. Am I destined to lose?
1. 4 Hatch hydra is inferior to 5 hatch hydra. It's not economically worth it to get a faster army out if your economy can't sustain your units. This would theoretically work in a different matchup if you weren't zerg maybe, but since zerg's economy is different, this isn't an effective option
2. People 1 gate tech just coz they can
3. Chill till you get speed and keep pumping zerglings out. It should be about 4 zerglings to zealot or something like that. Overpool directly should counter a zealot rush if you wait till speed to attack and get a sunken up just incase.
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Hey dromar, I ZvZ'ed with you earlier. I was [oh]yeah. Don't be over eager to get +1 Carapace right away. First you should pump mutas until you have a hotkey full or so, then go for the upgrade. I even noticed you pumped way too many scourge, this also contributed to your problem of "not having enough muta" in our battle. The purpose of scourge is for your muta army to get free hits while his muta army is running away from your scourge. So basically, your scourge should never outnumber your muta.
I didn't get the chance to get any scourge since you kept pressuring my nat. lol
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On May 10 2009 19:45 wurm wrote:
Hey dromar, I ZvZ'ed with you earlier. I was [oh]yeah. Don't be over eager to get +1 Carapace right away. First you should pump mutas until you have a hotkey full or so, then go for the upgrade. I even noticed you pumped way too many scourge, this also contributed to your problem of "not having enough muta" in our battle. The purpose of scourge is for your muta army to get free hits while his muta army is running away from your scourge. So basically, your scourge should never outnumber your muta.
I didn't get the chance to get any scourge since you kept pressuring my nat. lol
Yeah in that game, I had to get scourge because you had a superior air force, and I was starving for minerals.
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On May 10 2009 19:49 Dromar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 19:45 wurm wrote:
Hey dromar, I ZvZ'ed with you earlier. I was [oh]yeah. Don't be over eager to get +1 Carapace right away. First you should pump mutas until you have a hotkey full or so, then go for the upgrade. I even noticed you pumped way too many scourge, this also contributed to your problem of "not having enough muta" in our battle. The purpose of scourge is for your muta army to get free hits while his muta army is running away from your scourge. So basically, your scourge should never outnumber your muta.
I didn't get the chance to get any scourge since you kept pressuring my nat. lol Yeah in that game, I had to get scourge because you had a superior air force, and I was starving for minerals.
I had it the other way around. You had the faster expo, only problem was, you pumped zergling instead of drones for your nat. I panicked and put down a sunken which hurt my economy bad. By all means you should've had the advantage by then. By the time my spire finished I only had enough minerals for 3 muta.
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Personally i like going 1gate tech vs low level zergs if they dont know how to defend it. Ive beat quite a few zergs with a 1base 3gate speedlot rush into expand into storm.
Its really quite nice
In ZvZ you should get air armor if the game goes on for more than 10-12 minutes never off 1base because you'll die before it finishes with less mutas.
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You have to really be on the ball at all times in ZvZ when mutas are out. If they try to snipe a few drones then run away, you need to make them pay dearly for it. If you can't attack while chasing them you need to practice that. You can virtually end a game if the opponent doesnt split his mutas up after you are chasing him.
Some other random ZvZ tips to help you out.
-Hotkey your scourge and then move-click them onto one of your mutas. This way you'll only need to control your scourge during a fight, since they will be about half a second behind your mutas at all times without you having to control them.
-Later in the game if you are still having trouble getting raided by mutas when you are on 2base, leave an ovie or 2 around the edge your base in the areas that are hardest for you to defend. Losing an ovie is alot better than losing 3 drones and not being able to punish his mutas because you were in your nat or something. A couple lings spread around the map work well too if you can spare them.
-Always be suspicious of ling attacks after mutas have been out for a minute or two. It's really common for players to throw some lings at your ramp/nat, trying to get your mutas to go help out, then flying in and killing some drones.
Oh and practice patrol micro and ramp breaking/ramp defending. That is seriously like 70% of ZvZ
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WCS
