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Quint
467 Posts
So yeah, what language would you chose and why? I have been told off by some Japanese students, as they claim that two/three years is too little time to learn more than the basics. Korean is supposedly easier, but I am pretty sure it also has its pitfalls. Thanks in advance for your advice.   | ||
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Vex
Ireland454 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9021 Posts
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Elric
United Kingdom1327 Posts
If you're learning a language with a business motive, well... because the Japanese economy/international presence >>> Korean economy/international presence, I'm pretty sure there is a much higher demand for Japanese translators than Korean ones. Korean is pretty useless except if you're in Korea. A similar statement can be made for Japan of course... but just less so... so if your only reason for shortlisting Korean is because of Starcraft... .. you should choose Japanese. Japanese is a bit harder than Korean but forget what your Japanese student friends say. You can do a shitload in 2-3 years. I don't know about how much time/money/effort you have to spend on learning... but if you're serious, you will easily get to intermediate level. edit: snowbird's post on page 2 is must a read for any late wanderers onto this thread. | ||
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Pioneer
994 Posts
If you learn Japanese you'll have a slightly wider range of work available but more competition for the job, while with Korean it's a smaller range but I'd imagine a little less competition especially for a German to Korean/Korean to German translator. Having said that I'd go with Japanese, since their companies seem to be more prominent in the business world and being a German to Japanese/Japanese to German translator might make you more of a rare commodity than an English to Japanese/Japanese to English translator. I'd say ask any people that have experience with translating jobs and ask their opinion rather than going with something you'd think would be cool. A job comes first and interests come next especially in the world economy. Also you seem to like both cultures so you'd be winning either way and you can learn the other language at a later time, though I'd recommend learning Chinese after Japanese or Korean then the one of the two you didn't pick after Chinese. | ||
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NotSupporting
Sweden1998 Posts
On April 21 2009 18:54 Vex wrote: Japanese is more beneficial. unless your gonna play starcraft bw all your life? You are kind of ignorant. What about Kia, Samsung, LG, Hyundai and NCsoft? Some big international companys in South Korea. Still though I would go for Japanese for job opportunities. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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Person514cs
1004 Posts
There are more ppl there. translate to more girls | ||
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On April 21 2009 19:13 Jibba wrote: My father got a degree in Japanese, translated for car companies for a while and then got his MBA, and I'm fairly certain he'd recommend Korean over Japanese at this point, because of the directions of each country. I can ask later though. Japan's economy might be bigger now, but it's contracting and it has a decreasing, aging population whereas S. Korea is still quickly growing and it's a much younger country. In terms of pure birth rate, if memory serves, South Korea is lower than Japan? EDIT - Two to three years is quite a lot if you are putting the effort into it, though for interpretation it might be tough if you don't have the environment of the language about you. | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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29 fps
United States5724 Posts
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
If you chose Japanese make sure you check this video. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/tim_ferriss_smash_fear_learn_anything.html | ||
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On April 21 2009 19:50 floor exercise wrote: You realize that both of those countries put a huge emphasis on learning english and in 3 years that will probably only grow. In the business world they probably aren't just gonna bring in some clown who decided to learn japanese because they liked anime, the demand just isn't going to be there Much more true for Korean than Japanese imo, especially when the latter's English always feels like it is completely destroyed due to Katakana. :p Don't learn Mandarin and make it any harder for me in the future TT | ||
Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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theobsessed1
United States576 Posts
On April 21 2009 19:15 Person514cs wrote: wow. you know both japanese and korean? That's kind of rare combination. Why not chinese? There are more ppl there. translate to more girls Did you even read his post? | ||
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nataziel
Australia1455 Posts
Have been doing both for about seven weeks now and I'm really enjoying both, I'd love to speak them for my job. BUT, becoming an interpreter is harder than you think. The students at my university (university of queensland, has one of the best japanese programs in the country) who study interpreting are doing a masters of arts in japanese interpreting, and it's recommended that you spend at least a year in japan after completing previous studies of japanese at a university level before you can even be accepted in the course. You have to be very good at languages to be an interpreter, not any schmuck you studies the language for three years at university can jump straight into an interpreting course and have any idea what's going on. It's more likely to take you at least 5-6 years to become an interpreter, translating isn't as hard though. I have to say, I find korean easier, but maybe that's just because I have experience learning a foreign language, and both languages are quite similar. | ||
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Diomedes
464 Posts
And then he wants to translate for big business in 2 years? | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
Problem solved. Korean isn't really hard to learn. You can learn it relatively fast if you have the motivation. And then japanese. MUCH more difficult. You really need to focus, not saying like oh hell with this lesson i'll just go there and then i'll learn it fast, which you won't. At least not as fast as you'd if you put some effort into it. | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
Also dont expect to be truly competent, professional translator within 2 years unless you are actually planning on living in one of those countries for 2 years. | ||
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oneill
Philippines278 Posts
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Phrogs!
Japan521 Posts
I'll tell you that for Japanese, the phonetic writing systems in japanese, hiragana and katakana, are easy and the pronouciation is easy. Grammer is logical and really quite easy to learn. I'm not going to say "Kanji are easy", but they certainly aren't as hard as they look. There's some logic in the fact that certain componants appear again and again in kanji with similar meaning. (for example notice 言 reoccuring as parts of 語 and 話 among others) The hangul writing system is logical and very easy to learn but that's all the input I can really give as to Korean. I will say that a huge part of language learning is not just learning vocab and rules but to read and listen to native speakers day in day out and learn to use the language like a native does along with slang and what words to use in what situation to sound natural and not like a robot foreigner. Considering this, in Korean there is a wealth of resources that you would have a genuine interest in and want to learn: every starcraft vod and article ever. I don't know how much you know about each language or language learning in general so all of my post may not be useful, however I hope you can gain something from what I've written. edit: On April 21 2009 18:47 Quint wrote: I have been told off by some Japanese students, as they claim that two/three years is too little time to learn more than the basics. To say that is simply incorrect. People need to think in "hours" not "years". Consider people who are taught a language in organised education like in a college. Have they really been studying three years? Do they have a Japanese class every day? How much work do they do out of the class? When I hardcore self-studied Japanese, I tried to make every "day" I learned the language truely a day. I felt like discussing chess, well damn well take the English sites off my bookmarks and go learn how the Japanese talk about chess on their forums.. want to watch tv or listen to the radio.. go fucking do it in Japanese on the internet, etc etc, do everything in Japanese. This is why people learn Japanese for "three years" in the classroom, showing very little initiative and effort outside of the classroom, go to Japan and fuckdamn they can't understand "more than the basics". | ||
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BlackJack
United States10499 Posts
On April 21 2009 21:27 Chill wrote: I don't understand the situation. Don't people usually get fluent at a language and then become interpretters? What situation has occured to make you a "professional interpreter in two to three years" ? naiveté lol | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
Australia have strict and very difficult qualification for interpreting. My friend came from China, she went to a foreign boarding school in China, majored in english literature for university then came here and i can tell you this, her language skills is beyond this world, she speaks everything clearly and is definately a better english speaker than me (who spend 10 years here). Guess what? she failed the interpreting accreditation exam 3 times. Good interpreters are extremely rare to come by. You are not only a language specialist, you have to know the 2 or more languages inside and out, you have to have deep understanding of linguistic. You have to have the wit and thinking to react fast under pressure. 2/3 years to become one is beyond what i would think a normal university level education. You must be studying hardcore or be extremely motivated. But if you become one, the money will flow to you lol | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
Japanese is much harder to learn (unless you are Chinese) since Westerners typically have a lot of trouble with Kanji. When I was in Tokyo, a lot of people spoke Japanese find, but could not read anything for beans. | ||
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Quint
467 Posts
I am a language correspondent for English and French, which is basically the "light" version of an interpreter in Germany - I learned, how to translate both languages written as well as spoken, but I was not trained in the higher level techniques (like simultaneous interpreting) nor am I being recognized as a "real" translator/interpreter by the state (which is important if you want to work in the court for example). After my job training I freelanced a bit and then realized, that the competition for European languages is really, really big. Even with the combination of German, English, French and Spanish (what I initially wanted to do) you will have a very hard time to even find a job. That is why I went back to school so I could now go to uni and become a "real" interpreter recognized by the state. It usually takes three years, though due to my previous knowledge I may only have to take two years (that is why I wrote "two to three years"). In order to differentiate myself a bit from the mass of English/Spanish interpreters, I need a more exotic language to beef up my credentials - which means, learning either Russian, Chinese, Japanese or Korean. Since I have no connection to Russian nor Chinese (the latter supposedly even more challenging than Japanese), I am now either going for Japanese or Korean. As already said in here, the competition for Korean would be far less and it also seems a bit easier to me than Japanese. On the other side, who knows what will happen in the next few years? I would love to hear your experiences with both of the languages, so keep them coming. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66161 Posts
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
On April 21 2009 19:13 Jibba wrote: My father got a degree in Japanese, translated for car companies for a while and then got his MBA, and I'm fairly certain he'd recommend Korean over Japanese at this point, because of the directions of each country. I can ask later though. Japan's economy might be bigger now, but it's contracting and it has a decreasing, aging population whereas S. Korea is still quickly growing and it's a much younger country. what did he saaaaay! =) | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
Basically, if as a foreigner you plan to study Korea for interpretation without Chinese, you're worthless, unless you're connected on a very high level in your country's diplomacy and plan for a national abroad career in Korea. Don't let the answers in this thread fool you. Korean would be a very stupid choice. Someone who is very wrong said Korean seems like an easier thing. As far as language's technical is concerned yes, as far as interpretating goes, no, as Korean interpretation schools are fucking nuts. You have to note also, that most of the Asian interpretators have a perfect english (for ppl unaware, a interpretator isn't your local tourist guide, its a highly graduated professional earning very large sums of money), aka they will be on par with you for english, but blow you out of the water at anything coming any close to Asian main languages. Also, you have to know that as far as interpretating goes for mid range / class abroad business trips/ operations around Asia goes, females will always be picked over males. Especially in China/Korea. Alas Korean foreign investments are tons smaller than Japan culture / economics, aka you'll end up getting less/no work as a Korean interpretator. I could go on for a long time, just so you know, I have two very close Korean girl friends that graduated a few years ago their interpretation degrees and that I had to help on various levels for their trips in Europe. I know everything there is to know about this field, you can actually PM me to know more. DONT PICK KOREAN FCS. Japanese all the fucking way. NVM, pick russian then. | ||
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snowbird
Germany2044 Posts
Even though I am half Korean I pretty much had to learn Korean from scratch, so my previous knowledge of both languages before I started learning was about the same (close to zero). My Korean is quite good by now, my Japanese totally sucks, so I can only compare my experiences from the beginner to intermediate level. Please note that I put much more effort in Korean, so my skill difference is not a result of one language being more difficult than the other. Japanese is incredibly easy in the beginning. Pronounciation is among the easiest in the world, especially for Germans (except for the R/L). Hiragana/Katakana are not really hard to learn and there are almost no special pronounciation rules, so you can read a text that is purely written in Hiragana/Katakana (no Kanji) in no time. It was also easy to learn and memorize new words, since Japanese words are usually longer than Korean words, hence more distinguishable. The Korean writing system 'Hangul' is also really easy to learn and also strikes you as far more logical and effective than the Japanese systems. The bad news is that pronounciation is a real bitch and there are like 100000 special rules for different pronounciation when this consonant meets that other consonant etc. And sometimes there aren't even rules, sometimes there are just single exceptions for no rational reason. As words are short and correct pronounciation is very important, listening comprehension and speaking are pretty difficult in the beginning compared to Japanese. Also Korean verbs change a lot when conjugating, making them sound totally different than the original verb stem, so for a beginner it can be very hard to even recognize the correct verb when listening. That problem exists in Japanese too, but to a lesser extent in my opinion. I also found it much harder to memorize the words. All those 1 syllable verbs come to mind. Grammar wise both languages are similar and since I have never reached advanced stages in Japanese, there's nothing more I can say about that. Both languages have very easy grammar up to intermediate level. I'd give the edge to Japanese though, Korean seems to have more exceptions. Up til now everything seems to look in favor for Japanese. But here's the bummer. I hate Kanji with all my heart. Words cannot describe how much I despise that Kanji bullshit. The only good thing about Kanji is that they can help you when reading. Sometimes you can guess/know the meaning of a word without knowing the word itself or its pronounciation, just because of the Kanji. In the beginning it's all easy and fun and you learn a few Kanji and are proud that you can write cool symbols. But over time you just have to memorize a ridiculous amount of Kanji and that's just pure hard work. Without knowledge of Kanji you're not gonna get anywhere in Japan. It's so hard to motivate yourself to learn that shit, especially for words you may never even use in your life. And it's not enough to learn them once, because you will forget them again after approximately 2 weeks. So if you're seriously thinking about learning Japanese, get ready to study Kanji 1 hour a day. Kanji are also the reason why I lost interest in Japanese, I just didn't want to put in so much effort for a language I don't even have any use for. In conclusion I'd say that if it weren't for Kanji, Japanese would be the easier language to learn by a HUGE margin (beginner to intermediate level that is). Including Kanji, it's difficult to say. It really depends on your motivation to learn the language and your ability to memorize that shit. My gut feeling tells me, that Korean is the harder language overall, also at advanced levels, but that's pure speculation. Because once you reach a certain stage with Kanji, they can help you a lot when you're confronted with a new text. In Korean you also have all the Chinese-derived nouns, but no Kanji to help identify them. Also sometimes I'm amazed at myself how much I can understand when watching Japanese movies, even though my Japanese sucks so bad. For Korean it took me a lot longer to understand stuff, because words are so short and the pronounciation is less clear. Anyway, that's all just my personal opinion, hope it helps. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On April 22 2009 00:50 Cambium wrote: The Japanese economy is the world's second largest. Case closed? I thought that it's third, behind China and the United States but the point still remains "Korea is pretty self-explanatory since I have been playing Starcraft for almost 11 years now and really liked the impressions it gave me into the Korean lifestyle." What kind of statement is this? How do you get an impression of a lifestyle of a people from a video game that has nothing to do with it? That's like saying you get a good impression of the U.S. lifestyle from playing Madden. | ||
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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snowbird
Germany2044 Posts
Did you guys actually learn Korean and thought it's easy? | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
However if you want to learn one of the two languages i would recomment korean first. With their writing system (Hangul) being significantly shorter than the japanese writing system (katakana, hiragana and kanji) It is easier to pick up korean. However, learning an asian language if you are a westerner is going to be difficult. The grammer arrangements are very different from Enlglish and other latin based languages. A strong background in Mandarin Chinese might also be benificial in learning. If you are prepared to learn one of those two languages, be prepared to study your ass off for 5+ years and still not have perfect fluent korean/japanese. I was blessed with korean parents who pushed me to learn both korean and japanese since a young age. But for those who have not had this blessing, be prepared to hit a wall. It's not that easy. | ||
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On April 22 2009 03:52 Zurles wrote: maybe if north korea do something funky everyone will need korean speakers . go die please | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
sorry batman | ||
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Quint
467 Posts
Thanks again for your help guys. As I still have some time before uni starts, I am going to take up a beginners course for Japanese. What learning material would you suggest for a beginner? And I would still love to hear your opinions concerning both languages, so just go ahead. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On April 21 2009 23:10 RaiZ wrote: Learn both. Problem solved. Korean isn't really hard to learn. You can learn it relatively fast if you have the motivation. And then japanese. MUCH more difficult. You really need to focus, not saying like oh hell with this lesson i'll just go there and then i'll learn it fast, which you won't. At least not as fast as you'd if you put some effort into it. Eh? From my experience all languages are hard to learn, and require discipline and time. I doubt it's any different for Korean, if you want to master it and not merely fiddle around with it. For the effort/payoff evaluation, I could see better investments than either Japanese or Korean, and would leave the final decision to the whims of personal idiosyncrasy. For finding work in Germany, I would think that European languages would be in greater demand given the inexorable progress of the EU. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
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emucxg
Finland4559 Posts
On April 22 2009 06:06 Rekrul wrote: korean is useless unless u wanna pick up girls lol | ||
LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
On April 23 2009 04:09 Hot_Bid wrote: I would learn Japanese, I hear they have a lower instance of rape among teenagers. lol | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
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GTR
51449 Posts
On April 23 2009 04:09 Hot_Bid wrote: I would learn Japanese, I hear they have a lower instance of rape among teenagers. i see what you did there | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
The big difference comes in writing...Japanese is a LOT harder to learn than Korean. It's not phonetic and uses a weird mixture of like three different alphabets. Korean is one of the simplest and most efficient phonetic alphabets out there, I think, and is fairly easy to pick up. I think Japanese might be more competitive since their economy/exports, quite frankly, matter more in the world scene. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On April 23 2009 16:21 PH wrote: There are actually a lot of similarities between Korean and Japanese...a lot of very similar words with very similar meanings, and their grammatical structure is similar (at least it seems to be to me...don't take my word for it). The big difference comes in writing...Japanese is a LOT harder to learn than Korean. It's not phonetic and uses a weird mixture of like three different alphabets. Korean is one of the simplest and most efficient phonetic alphabets out there, I think, and is fairly easy to pick up. I think Japanese might be more competitive since their economy/exports, quite frankly, matter more in the world scene. two of the japanese alphabets are phonetic, and the third (kanji) is based on chinese characters, are ideographic. korean uses chinese characters ideographically too, iirc. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
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latent
United States428 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:14 Cambium wrote: Kanji is extremely rare in Korean language, except for maybe arts/historical venues. I don't think I saw any kanji during my stay in SK. ... >.<;; kanji is only prevalent in japanese culture the use of chinese characters is called hanjja | ||
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