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Question for Piano Players

Blogs > NeVeR
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NeVeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1352 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-19 05:29:44
March 17 2009 22:43 GMT
#1
So I've just recently started learning to play piano and I'm somewhat confused about the proper technique for using the foot pedals on a grand piano. People have told me that only the right-most pedal is useful for classical pieces - is this really true? What if I only want the bass notes to resonate while having the soprano be played in a staccato manner? Wouldn't the middle pedal be useful in that case?

Most sheet music does not tell you when to use the pedals and simply leaves this up to the performer, so how exactly should I know when to use them? Any tips on pedaling technique appreciated.

*
naonao
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States847 Posts
March 17 2009 22:56 GMT
#2
I don't remember playing any classical pieces that had a strong bass part, and i've never used anything but the right pedal in my 8 years of piano playing.
Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
March 17 2009 23:02 GMT
#3
I play piano, completely self taught though.

it moves a part of the piano further away from the strings and the general effect is that the strings vibrate longer. I mainly use it when i want the note to last a bit longer, like at the end of bars or on the last note before a pause. and theres also some other times where you just one one note to last a bit longer or something. thats generally what i do though

though this might be wrong i dont 100% know what im talking about seeing as i taught myself.. lol
captainwafflos
Profile Joined February 2009
United States212 Posts
March 17 2009 23:06 GMT
#4
to say only the right-most pedal is the only one used in classical music is flat-out wrong, but it is by far the most used. here's wikipedia's description of each of the piano pedals, which is probably more articulate than i could provide.

i've been playing classical and jazz piano for 4 years now and am fairly obsessed with the instrument -- feel free to PM me if you have any questions about repertoire/technique resources.
Khenra
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands885 Posts
March 17 2009 23:20 GMT
#5
I'd say the sustain pedal is used most when you cannot otherwise connect two notes due to the positioning of your hand at that time (you tap the pedal when you play the first note and release as soon as you hit the next note).

All I can say about the other pedals: I haven't yet played a piece where I needed them.
This signature is ruining eSports.
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20661 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-17 23:29:39
March 17 2009 23:28 GMT
#6
Right pedal (sustaining/damper pedal) is the only one used at least 95% of the time.

Left pedal (una corda) used to soften... though it's generally preferable to just play softly unless the sheet music indicates pedal usage.

Middle one is most often the sostenuto pedal. In 14 years of piano playing I've only ever used it in a couple pieces by Beethoven (most damn obsessive prolific pedal-focused composer ever)

Er... All pedal usage should be marked :O

edit: basically, random personal application of pedals is generally frowned upon until you're at a technical/artistic level that allows you to actually use them intelligently. if there are no pedal markings, don't use the bloody pedals.
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Ryshi
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Canada361 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-17 23:56:03
March 17 2009 23:55 GMT
#7
The left pedal does not mean the keys on the left side will have the sustaining effect. Only the right pedal has the sustaining effect. Last Romantic clearly defines what each one does.

But to add a little more info:
Left pedal: only hits one hammer (as opposed to 3 hammers for one note if no pedals are pressed), thus softening the sound.

Middle pedal: I've never even seen this pedal in sheet music, and some pianos don't even have this. I usually use this when there's someone in the room who's on the phone and wants me to play quietly.
The World God Only Knows
arcticStorm
Profile Joined January 2009
United States295 Posts
March 18 2009 00:17 GMT
#8
Just a note: the middle pedal is different depending on whether you have an upright or a grand piano. In general, the middle pedal on the upright interposes a fabric between the hammer and the strings and mutes the sound down. However, the middle pedal on a grand piano seems to sustain the notes that are held when the pedal goes down, but no others (more of a specialized kind of damper pedal)
This statement is a lie.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
March 18 2009 00:26 GMT
#9
On March 18 2009 08:28 Last Romantic wrote:
basically, random personal application of pedals is generally frowned upon


This. Don't take artistic license when it comes to classical piano, there's a reason why these composers are celebrates - they knew what they were doing.
TranslatorBaa!
skronch
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2717 Posts
March 18 2009 00:29 GMT
#10
On an upright piano the middle pedal is not usually used except as a practice pedal, sort of like a practice mute for a trumpet.
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20661 Posts
March 18 2009 00:45 GMT
#11
Why are we talking about uprights/consoles when the OP is asking after grands :s

Out of curiosity, what are you using?
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Chromyne
Profile Joined January 2008
Canada561 Posts
March 18 2009 01:05 GMT
#12
If you're going to be learning classical pieces (specifically), it would be most beneficial to learn through a piano teacher. The pieces will instruct you in terms of pedal usage, so you won't have to worry about that.

One tip is to not use the pedal as a crutch for sustaining sound. It's a good skill to create the legato (and sustain) fluidity without the use of a pedal, and then add the pedal to see the results!
Soli Deo gloria.
NeVeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1352 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-18 14:52:54
March 18 2009 14:36 GMT
#13
On March 18 2009 09:26 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2009 08:28 Last Romantic wrote:
basically, random personal application of pedals is generally frowned upon


This. Don't take artistic license when it comes to classical piano, there's a reason why these composers are celebrates - they knew what they were doing.


Well I'm currently working on learning a couple of Chopin pieces. I have a whole book filled with sheet music of all of his nocturnes, waltzes and preludes. No where in this entire book is there any indication of pedal usage, but I'm quite certain that at least the sustain pedal should be implemented for many, most, perhaps even all of the pieces. I've listened to a number of interpretations of his work, and the sustain pedal is clearly used. Take the "Prelude in E-minor" (Op. 28 No. 4) for example: without the use of the sustain pedal, this piece just sounds horribly mechanical and certainly not what the composer intended.

On March 18 2009 09:45 Last Romantic wrote:
Out of curiosity, what are you using?


I have a Samick grand piano, but I'm not sure of the model. We've had it for years, but I've only just started playing recently.

On March 18 2009 10:05 Chromyne wrote:
If you're going to be learning classical pieces (specifically), it would be most beneficial to learn through a piano teacher.


The sheet music I use tells me which notes to play and which fingers to play them with, so really it's all a matter of practicing, isn't it? What more can a teacher give me? Really the only thing I'm rather confused about is how to properly use the pedals.
Steelflight-Rx
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1389 Posts
March 18 2009 16:09 GMT
#14
There is generally some sort of notation to tell you how to you the pedals, i think its some sort of horizontal bracket ( ] <- that thing, but turned on its side that runs underneath hte phrases where you are supposed to use the pedal)


When the bracket starts put down the sustain pedal, when it ends lift up. I don't know about hte notation for the other pedals, I've never really used them. Have fun =)
yubee wrote: you know? it's a great night you should all smile no matter what harddships, because grass grows and the sky is blue and it's a good life.
NeVeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1352 Posts
March 18 2009 16:12 GMT
#15
On March 19 2009 01:09 Steelflight-Rx wrote:
There is generally some sort of notation to tell you how to you the pedals, i think its some sort of horizontal bracket ( ] <- that thing, but turned on its side that runs underneath hte phrases where you are supposed to use the pedal)


Yep, don't see them.
captainwafflos
Profile Joined February 2009
United States212 Posts
March 18 2009 21:41 GMT
#16
NeveR:

don't discount the benefits of having a good piano teacher. although they aren't as necessary these days, having some sort of external musical education is almost necessary to play the more difficult pieces unless you're a genius or have some otherwordly sense of creative drive.

for harder pieces, like chopin's etudes (since we're on the topic of that composer), you might find it helpful to look at youtube videos in order to figure out the best way to make movements to create the music you hear as performed by professional pianists.

like other disciplines, there are efficient and inefficient ways of learning to play the piano. unfortunately, most of the best ways to learn piano are non-intuitive.

for free online learning resources, i would recommend especially c. c. chang's free online book on piano technique, found here: http://www.pianopractice.org/

also, pianostreet.com is one of the best and most informative piano forums on the internet. especially useful are Bernhard's posts on this forum -- he's a piano instructor based in the UK who has spent hundreds of hours posting about just about every topic in learning piano music. they also have a huge database of sheet music. you can download thousands of high quality sheet music scans for $5 (i think?), which is cheaper than i've found anywhere else.

finally, some passages will probably baffle you and you might find youtube helpful, as i mentioned before.

have fun!
NeVeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1352 Posts
March 18 2009 22:17 GMT
#17
Thanks a lot for the advice, captainwafflos. I'll definitely check out those websites.
pinenamu
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States770 Posts
March 18 2009 23:55 GMT
#18
yeah i only used the right pedal for when i played. lol i never knew what the other pedals did until i read LR's post. i thought my left pedal was like broken or something because my piano would get quiet, but then again, my piano is really old and rundown. when i needed to play at night or something because i didn't do the hw, i would press on the left pedal so the neighbors wouldn't complain lol. it's been a long time since i played now @_@ i wonder if i can still play it haha
ph33r
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada58 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-19 03:18:46
March 19 2009 03:18 GMT
#19
Basically what LR said. Additionally, the leftmost pedal is used to create contrast. Eg, you have two repeated phrases, and the 2nd time you want to play softer; then the 2nd time you could apply the leftmost pedal.

A note about the rightmost pedal (that I didn't see mentioned) is that you want to pedal right after you press the note.

As for when to pedal, a lot of this comes from experience (a teacher really helps here). A general rule for pedal usage is if the sound is blurred, then you're sustaining for too long.

Edit: when I just say pedal, I mean the rightmost one.
NeVeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1352 Posts
March 19 2009 05:23 GMT
#20
On March 19 2009 12:18 ph33r wrote:
As for when to pedal, a lot of this comes from experience (a teacher really helps here). A general rule for pedal usage is if the sound is blurred, then you're sustaining for too long.


That's exactly what often happens to me. The problem is when I want to preserve the resonating sound created by the pedal throughout chord changes. I have to occasionally release and then step on the pedal again and there is this awkward moment where the resonance is suddenly lost. Anything you can say about this?
ph33r
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada58 Posts
March 19 2009 11:15 GMT
#21
On March 19 2009 14:23 NeVeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2009 12:18 ph33r wrote:
As for when to pedal, a lot of this comes from experience (a teacher really helps here). A general rule for pedal usage is if the sound is blurred, then you're sustaining for too long.


That's exactly what often happens to me. The problem is when I want to preserve the resonating sound created by the pedal throughout chord changes. I have to occasionally release and then step on the pedal again and there is this awkward moment where the resonance is suddenly lost. Anything you can say about this?


Two suggestions come to mind immediately:

1. For pedalling through chord changes, release the pedal while your finger is still holding the note, then pedal again after you press the next note. You have to play legato here (notes are connected as much as possible). You want the time that the pedal isn't stepped on to be minimal. Hard to explain this without actually showing you, but you should get the idea with some practice.

2. Don't push the pedal all the way down; just enough so that the sound is sustained (this differs between pianos). So when you release, you only have to lift your foot a bit.
kefkalives
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Australia1272 Posts
March 19 2009 11:20 GMT
#22
What the hell is wrong with me, i thought you meant Yellows 2 handed piano macro. god damnit --
prOxi.bOn ; \\ What makes most people feel happy/Leads us headlong into harm.
NeVeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1352 Posts
March 19 2009 23:37 GMT
#23
Thanks for the tips, ph33r. I'll work on it.
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