|
So I played a game today on iccup ZvP where the toss did proxygates, and I figured I just as well might make a commentary for it since I recorded the game and im sure a lot of lower ranks players are having troubles against this.
So I considered putting this in the same blog I made 2 days ago but figured alot of people who might want to watch this could end up missing it. So with this in mind I wanted to ask the mods if it would be appropriate to make a thread in the strategy forum like stylish have done to gather all my VODs in one place. But since im not putting anything nearly the same amount of time and effort into these as stylish who keeps perfect build orders ect with it, I wasnt sure if you wanted it around in the Strategy forum.
Its just a less than 7min game, but I think it shows a good way of playing vs proxygates. As I said its a ZvP @ Colosseum vs some random B Korean.
Anyway here is the VOD : http://files.filefront.com/ZvPvsProxygateswmv/;13155963;/fileinfo.html
As usual the rep for anyone who wants that : http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=7356
 
|
Please make a strategy forum thread!
|
lolol well obviously its easy to beat proxy gate with over pool, especially when u scout it right off the bat
|
I was expecting 12 hatch (as its colosseum with not scouted proxy gates). This was very standard.
|
Try beat proxygates with terran, that is hard 
|
I agree; i was really hopeful that this was going to be a TvP defending proxy gate.
Sadly, it's not I wonder if there will ever be a 'standard' way to deal with proxy gate as a terran.
But thanks for the commentary anyway! I absolutely hate proxy gates and I love to see those cheesers go down 
|
File size looks right this time if it's less then a 7 minute game. lol what did you change?
|
On February 01 2009 06:21 Bond(i2) wrote:
lolol well obviously its easy to beat proxy gate with over pool, especially when u scout it right off the bat
Yeah, like I say, its easy to beat if you know how to do it. However I am sure there is a lot of players who dont know what to do, and do the mistake of trying to fight the incoming zealots from a 1hatch production or other kinds of mistakes.
So this should in no way be news for seasoned players, but I figured some people might learn from it so I just made the commentary, as the same logic applies for all pool first builds, and can be used for a 12hatch + its always the possibility to cancel the expo hatch and place it next to your main hatch if you scout it. If I find myself in a 12hatch vs proxygates game on a later occasion that I record I can make a commentary on that.
As for defending vs proxygates when you 12hatch and have no clue about it before the zeals arrive, there aint anything more to it than micro, not much fancy you can do when its not scouted beside sunk up, mass lings and pray.
And for you terrans, there already is an easy way to beat proxygates. Its called walling 
On a serious note, I kinda suck TvP so I dont think any FPVod I made of it would be very useful, you should rather go watch some of stylish or merz VODs.
|
On February 01 2009 07:10 Racenilatr wrote:
File size looks right this time if it's less then a 7 minute game. lol what did you change?
I realized you could decide the size of the end file from Windows movie maker, I had just made highest quality or whatever when there was a menu where you could decide the size of the finished file.
|
Katowice25012 Posts
I like your FPVods a lot, thanks
|
Of course proxy-gates are easier to defend with overpool than 12 hatch. This is still helpful because it shows you a solid way to counter it instead of just surviving.
Thanks for the FPVOD's, Oystein. I always learn a lot.
Edit: You should make a thread for your FPVOD's in the strategy forum. I don't think Chill would mind but if you're concerned you can PM him.
|
On February 01 2009 07:14 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 07:10 Racenilatr wrote:
File size looks right this time if it's less then a 7 minute game. lol what did you change? I realized you could decide the size of the end file from Windows movie maker, I had just made highest quality or whatever when there was a menu where you could decide the size of the finished file.
Noob The best quality in my opinion, is about 1 mbs quality. Perfect for quality/size
|
United States17042 Posts
On February 01 2009 06:48 Zoler wrote:Try beat proxygates with terran, that is hard
Walling is key, or at least building your buildings in a configuration that is zealtight, and not marine tight if you're not going to bother building a true wall.
Thanks for the FPVOD oystin, it's always really helpful.
|
On February 01 2009 09:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 06:48 Zoler wrote:Try beat proxygates with terran, that is hard Walling is key, or at least building your buildings in a configuration that is zealtight, and not marine tight if you're not going to bother building a true wall. Thanks for the FPVOD oystin, it's always really helpful.
Walling is not good vs proxy. If you wall and he proxies inside your main you can't do shit about it. You doesn't have a sim city against the zealots. And NO you cannot destroy gates with scvs, that just sets the protoss ahead of you.
Look at Flash vs Anytime (I think it was Anytime) on Blue Storm in GSI. Flash really shows why a sim city build is better.
|
On February 01 2009 09:17 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 09:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On February 01 2009 06:48 Zoler wrote:Try beat proxygates with terran, that is hard Walling is key, or at least building your buildings in a configuration that is zealtight, and not marine tight if you're not going to bother building a true wall. Thanks for the FPVOD oystin, it's always really helpful. Walling is not good vs proxy. If you wall and he proxies inside your main you can't do shit about it. You doesn't have a sim city against the zealots. And NO you cannot destroy gates with scvs, that just sets the protoss ahead of you. Look at Flash vs Anytime (I think it was Anytime) on Blue Storm in GSI. Flash really shows why a sim city build is better.
Well proxygates in main are very map dependent since it pretty much have to be a 2player map and one where you can reach into his main in time undetected. And killing gates with scvs is absolutely worth it, it dont put the P in any advantage, it makes the game even or maybe even a slight advantage for the T depending if the gates complete and such. And anyway its a hell lot better than leaving them there and having zeals roam around in your base early.
Example of this is Flash vs Much on Blue storm from WCG korea were Flash kills the gateways using SCVs, and that game is newer than Flash vs Anytime so flash dont think sim city is superior since he uses both builds on BS.
And there is really no good reason NOT to wall on most maps, unless you are extremely confident in your micro vs zeals\goons and then you got no right to bitch about zeals if you had the opportunity to actually wall.
|
On February 01 2009 09:47 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 09:17 Zoler wrote:On February 01 2009 09:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On February 01 2009 06:48 Zoler wrote:Try beat proxygates with terran, that is hard Walling is key, or at least building your buildings in a configuration that is zealtight, and not marine tight if you're not going to bother building a true wall. Thanks for the FPVOD oystin, it's always really helpful. Walling is not good vs proxy. If you wall and he proxies inside your main you can't do shit about it. You doesn't have a sim city against the zealots. And NO you cannot destroy gates with scvs, that just sets the protoss ahead of you. Look at Flash vs Anytime (I think it was Anytime) on Blue Storm in GSI. Flash really shows why a sim city build is better. Well proxygates in main are very map dependent since it pretty much have to be a 2player map and one where you can reach into his main in time undetected. And killing gates with scvs is absolutely worth it, it dont put the P in any advantage, it makes the game even or maybe even a slight advantage for the T depending if the gates complete and such. And anyway its a hell lot better than leaving them there and having zeals roam around in your base early. Example of this is Flash vs Much on Blue storm from WCG korea were Flash kills the gateways using SCVs, and that game is newer than Flash vs Anytime so flash dont think sim city is superior since he uses both builds on BS. And there is really no good reason NOT to wall on most maps, unless you are extremely confident in your micro vs zeals\goons and then you got no right to bitch about zeals if you had the opportunity to actually wall.
How would attacking gateways put the terran at an advantage? Let's say you use 7 scvs, then you have 7 scvs not mining for a pretty long time, and what does the protoss lose? Nothing really, he cancels both his gateways and makes new ones in his base and gets like a free fast expand because you are so behind. Watch IntoTheRainbow vs AzAng in GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic
Season 2 game 1 @ Medusa.
That game shows why killing gates is not a good choice, and Tasteless explains it very good too.
|
Yay a zerg fpvod, thanks so much.
|
Hrm I have a replay I recorded with audio on how to defend proxygates TvP. Should get around to uploading that. It was played at like D+ though ages ago which was probably why I never uploaded it...
|
On February 01 2009 10:06 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 09:47 Oystein wrote:On February 01 2009 09:17 Zoler wrote:On February 01 2009 09:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On February 01 2009 06:48 Zoler wrote:Try beat proxygates with terran, that is hard Walling is key, or at least building your buildings in a configuration that is zealtight, and not marine tight if you're not going to bother building a true wall. Thanks for the FPVOD oystin, it's always really helpful. Walling is not good vs proxy. If you wall and he proxies inside your main you can't do shit about it. You doesn't have a sim city against the zealots. And NO you cannot destroy gates with scvs, that just sets the protoss ahead of you. Look at Flash vs Anytime (I think it was Anytime) on Blue Storm in GSI. Flash really shows why a sim city build is better. Well proxygates in main are very map dependent since it pretty much have to be a 2player map and one where you can reach into his main in time undetected. And killing gates with scvs is absolutely worth it, it dont put the P in any advantage, it makes the game even or maybe even a slight advantage for the T depending if the gates complete and such. And anyway its a hell lot better than leaving them there and having zeals roam around in your base early. Example of this is Flash vs Much on Blue storm from WCG korea were Flash kills the gateways using SCVs, and that game is newer than Flash vs Anytime so flash dont think sim city is superior since he uses both builds on BS. And there is really no good reason NOT to wall on most maps, unless you are extremely confident in your micro vs zeals\goons and then you got no right to bitch about zeals if you had the opportunity to actually wall. How would attacking gateways put the terran at an advantage? Let's say you use 7 scvs, then you have 7 scvs not mining for a pretty long time, and what does the protoss lose? Nothing really, he cancels both his gateways and makes new ones in his base and gets like a free fast expand because you are so behind. Watch IntoTheRainbow vs AzAng in GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic Season 2 game 1 @ Medusa. That game shows why killing gates is not a good choice, and Tasteless explains it very good too.
You dont think you get an advantage if you send 7scvs, P cancels both his gates once he sees your scvs coming and you go back to mining? And like I said in the last post, who gets the advantage are determined by a couple of things, if the Gates are completed or canceled, and if they are completed if they get any zeals out of them in time before they die. And if sending SCVs was such an awful choice why do so many pros do it?
|
I hate people who set extra high for no reason. That looks to be you!
|
On February 01 2009 10:26 MiniRoman wrote:
I hate people who set extra high for no reason. That looks to be you!
You might not see it in the VOD easily but the game ran a bit slow at times on high, and had did so in the game we played before this also. By slow I dont mean lag, more that the game just goes down to like 80% of normal speed.
|
On February 01 2009 10:26 MiniRoman wrote:
I hate people who set extra high for no reason. That looks to be you!
How can you hate somebody for that reason? That's a pretty strong word for something really insignificant :S
|
Extra high latency annoys me too. It's not as bad as bnet lat, but it's on the edge
|
On February 01 2009 10:19 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 10:06 Zoler wrote:On February 01 2009 09:47 Oystein wrote:On February 01 2009 09:17 Zoler wrote:On February 01 2009 09:02 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On February 01 2009 06:48 Zoler wrote:Try beat proxygates with terran, that is hard Walling is key, or at least building your buildings in a configuration that is zealtight, and not marine tight if you're not going to bother building a true wall. Thanks for the FPVOD oystin, it's always really helpful. Walling is not good vs proxy. If you wall and he proxies inside your main you can't do shit about it. You doesn't have a sim city against the zealots. And NO you cannot destroy gates with scvs, that just sets the protoss ahead of you. Look at Flash vs Anytime (I think it was Anytime) on Blue Storm in GSI. Flash really shows why a sim city build is better. Well proxygates in main are very map dependent since it pretty much have to be a 2player map and one where you can reach into his main in time undetected. And killing gates with scvs is absolutely worth it, it dont put the P in any advantage, it makes the game even or maybe even a slight advantage for the T depending if the gates complete and such. And anyway its a hell lot better than leaving them there and having zeals roam around in your base early. Example of this is Flash vs Much on Blue storm from WCG korea were Flash kills the gateways using SCVs, and that game is newer than Flash vs Anytime so flash dont think sim city is superior since he uses both builds on BS. And there is really no good reason NOT to wall on most maps, unless you are extremely confident in your micro vs zeals\goons and then you got no right to bitch about zeals if you had the opportunity to actually wall. How would attacking gateways put the terran at an advantage? Let's say you use 7 scvs, then you have 7 scvs not mining for a pretty long time, and what does the protoss lose? Nothing really, he cancels both his gateways and makes new ones in his base and gets like a free fast expand because you are so behind. Watch IntoTheRainbow vs AzAng in GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic Season 2 game 1 @ Medusa. That game shows why killing gates is not a good choice, and Tasteless explains it very good too. You dont think you get an advantage if you send 7scvs, P cancels both his gates once he sees your scvs coming and you go back to mining? And like I said in the last post, who gets the advantage are determined by a couple of things, if the Gates are completed or canceled, and if they are completed if they get any zeals out of them in time before they die. And if sending SCVs was such an awful choice why do so many pros do it?
The protoss can just wait until the gate is like 99% finished or has 1 hp left until he cancels it. The scvs has been attacking it forever and the protoss lose close to nothing. Most of the games where the terrans has taken their scv's of mining and attacking has been because of an already bad sim city due to wall or such and that is their only choice. Often this ends in protoss victory.
Terran ONLY take scvs on gateways if that is their only option, they would never do it with a good sim city / defense.
It's very situational of course, but I believe it's better to always have a good sim city ready.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
