EPT[Q]Spawn Broodling against Terran metal - Page 2
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StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
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Chau
Canada408 Posts
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
On January 11 2009 02:54 StRyKeR wrote: Goliath with range outranges queen spells. It'd be REALLY hard to get off any spells on mech. Nope, Broodling has 9 range while Goliath has 8. And you want to broodling the goliaths that guard the tanks, unless you see an opportunity to kill the tanks without wasting the queens in the process. On January 11 2009 02:20 RaGe wrote: A C+ korean zerg just used this against me. I don't think its viable tbh. His queens came out useful though (infested 3 CCs lol). But I won in the end REP PLEASE! I need to see his BO! | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
reasons it doesn't work well: takes up too much larva (less army) - especially trying to get "20 queens" to 150 energy by the time the terran is ready to push b/c of queen acceleration/deceleration speed, it usually dies after using broodling even if it doesn't, it likely won't be able to use it again throughout the course of the game | ||
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
On January 11 2009 03:46 Saracen wrote: i've tried this reasons it doesn't work well: takes up too much larva (less army) - especially trying to get "20 queens" to 150 energy by the time the terran is ready to push b/c of queen acceleration/deceleration speed, it usually dies after using broodling even if it doesn't, it likely won't be able to use it again throughout the course of the game I was thinking of making only a few queens in the early stages of the game, then adding them gradually when you get a better econ, eventually getting a massive amount of queens, like Terran does with science vessels. Making too many in the early stages is suicide. You need a "bread" army there while queens are the "butter" of your army. You obviously need a massive ground army to kill the Terran. Queens are there to weaken the Terran over time, not kill the Terran. However, I'm definitely interested in the deceleration issue. Were you using parasite before using Broodling? I've noticed that it improves the casting AI. Also, were you cloning the queens, then using the shift-move to make them run away automatically? I hope rage posts the rep... | ||
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dragoonkf
Singapore1256 Posts
On January 11 2009 03:46 Saracen wrote: i've tried this reasons it doesn't work well: takes up too much larva (less army) - especially trying to get "20 queens" to 150 energy by the time the terran is ready to push b/c of queen acceleration/deceleration speed, it usually dies after using broodling even if it doesn't, it likely won't be able to use it again throughout the course of the game Don't you think 20 queens is abit too much ? I believe 5-6 queens will suffice, make the tanks your priority target, it will significantly reduce and slow down his pushing power of the metal. What im worried about this BO is a timing attack from terran due to resources going to the queen's use =/ | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
The reason that why Z can't have equal amount of queens compared to vessels worth of gas is that Terrans only seem to have that much vessels when he goes SK terran (which is low on gas) I'd say about 10 queens is viable. But Z should also get the +50 energy upgrade so that he can save up energy and use another broodling after waiting just a little. Should take out a good 20 tanks which will make a huge difference Another good thing about broodlings is that the little critters that come out of the spell will attack the metal army, which will cause the metal army to fire upon itself to cause splash damage on its own army | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
against metal, if you can micro it and snipe tanks, it can be useful, as it adds to the mobility of your army and can cut down the army size. However, the amount of goliaths makes that near suicidal for the queen and you can't lower the army size enough to make it worth it. and mana regen sucks | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
 I realize while the broodling range is higher than goliaths they would still hit you quickly, so it would be best to factor the terrain into your advantage in this. You'd had to pick the right area so you're above a cliff then as they are below pick them off. Also forgot to mention parasite could be useful for scouting purposes keeping tabs on your enemy. But you'd want to save the energy i guess. Im probably too low level of a player to do this effectively but im going to give it a try. The idea of a small flock of queens flying around causing problems is certainly interesting. The energy cost unfortunately is high, but if Sci Vessels are even more expensive i don't see why a few queens couldn't come in handy at least mid-late game. | ||
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29 fps
United States5719 Posts
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petzergling
538 Posts
On February 13 2009 19:41 29 fps wrote: it takes a lot of time to reach 150 energy for broodling. and also, it costs a lot of extra gas to research extra energy, which does help but not a lot. This. At first I understood your comparison to science vessels, as broodling works similar to irradiate sniping units between and during battles. The thing is though, you cant just pop 5 queens out and then grab 5 tanks. You have to invest 5 larve and money into queens that just sit there for an extremely long period of time doing nothing. Terran science vessels atleast provide detection and can be used to irradiate soon (esp with upgrade). | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
The energy needed is not really an issue, it just works much like a toss going arbiters for recall. | ||
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
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inertinept
Bangladesh1195 Posts
snipe tanks, then gogogo. or remember the reason why people dont do this and just fucking get defilers already. | ||
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s031720
Sweden383 Posts
Ive thought about this quite a bit, and I see several advantages with atleast one queen late game. This is only theory-starcraft since im truly a noob, and while I might sound like im stating facts I merely mean this as a question to more experienced players. My apparant lack of humbleness is mainly a lack of english vocabulary, its easier for me to write it down like this. A queen have 4 (but Id like to add a 5th) abilities: 1. Infest CC 2. Ensnare 3. Parasite 4. Spawn Broodling (5. Muta-speed) Even one queen would be useful VS terran, esp late game where you get the chance to clear out a terran expansion in no-mans land. In an even, long game this situation should probably occur, even more than once? And keep in mind that the queens nest is on the way to hive so you will allready have all the prerequisites anyway. The Terran respons to zerg (lurker/ling) cleaning out an expansion is usually just to lift the CC to the safety of the air, and counterattack somewhere else, and force the Zerg-army away, land, restart expansion. But with a queen (and maybe a few scourges) you can take that CC out rather handily with infest and respond to the terran counterattack. First of all, you get to keep the queen wich is great. Secondly he looses a CC and position, wich is also great. And you gain infested terrans. And it dosent cost any energy. (I believe). As a bynote; I guess you could fly the CC over his base to psych him and having him kill his own CC, or maybe just land it at that expansion spot to block it and delay future expansionattempts. Infested terrans could be built and used to drop at siegetanks with the help of an overlord, much as the protoss does with zealots. An overlord can carry eight infested, and they do 500es damage (explosive, splash) so they could really throw havoc. Another way to make infested useful is to use darkswarm to help them reach their target before beeing blown apart. Dropping them at a supply-depot cluster would lower a terran supply quite a bit. Parasite on the other hand have a great range, 12, cost 75 to cast, and could give you valuable intel. If you cast it at a siege tank, will he sacrifice it? Or will he put it somewhere where he dosent give away uneccesaryt intel? It will probably influence his game at any rate, hampering him and thus help you. If he dosent notice or dosent care, you will know what he is up to all the time wich could be invaluable. Ensnare is the golden deal here (that is my belief). It also cost 75 to cast. With lurker/ling vs a mixed terran, ensnaring the marines (doesnt matter much if your lings get ensnared aswell, i guess the best microorder would be, swarm, lings, ensnare, lurkers) will increase the efficiancy of the lurker push immensly. They wont be able to get away as easily. Ensnaring Science Vessels will help you kill them off with scourge. Ensnare also works great defensively and will help your sunken kill of many more marines before dying maybe buying you some necessary time to get the rest of your (less mobile) force over there to deal with the threat. Spawn broodling does seem rather hard to get pay-off from, maybe best used to kill annoying tank-drops on hard to reach places. It costs 150 to cast. As mentioned before you would need alot of queens for them to make an impact, and all else things equal between the two players, investing in that many queens must give the zerg player an economic disadvantage that will be hard for the queens to make up for. Or so I think. Queens really need a massive army to make them useful, its a support unit, and building that many queens means building alot less other units. Last, the speed. Queens are lightening fast (just as quick as a muta I think as long as they dont stop.) While waiting for them to reload, have it/them moving around the map and they will give you great scouting-capabilites. Unfortunately they die very easy to turrets so a keen eye and quick reflexes might be necessary to keep her alive. My point here is that they are not enirely useless when low on energy, they can still be somewhat helpful. Getting atleast one queen late-mid just to kill of CCs seems like a really good idea to me. Ensnare mid-game also seems like a cheap way to get the economical advantage (helping your lurkers killing of more marines). If one (or a few) queen makes your opponent change his build to include goliaths, well, then that too is a good thing since (I believe) vulture/tanks is a stronger combination, and goliaths vs groundunits are a weaker alternative. Queens start out with 50 energy, so they should at a minimum be able to throw down atleast one good ensnare before dying to irradiate, and maybe that will save the life (for a little bit longer atleast ) a defiler. I understand that pro-gamers and "europeans" play the game diffrently, progamers never use queens as far as I have seen, are queen used in the european "style" at all? | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
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s031720
Sweden383 Posts
And I wonder if you couldnt make infested terran have an impact on the game if you knew what you where doing, i was outlining some ideas above. Im thinking that the queen should be a great support unit for a lurker/ling strategy vs M&M and mixed terran. And at that stage, mid-late building a queen shouldnt strain economy to much. I understand that it would take more micro skills than it is worth for many players, but im sure you could just train until it works as it supposed to. A lurkerpush would work just like usual, just finish off with an ensnare to make those marines runaway at a slower rate. I understand that it isnt easy to pull off routinely, but when it hits it should really improve the push, maybe killing as much as twice the number of marines? Maybe letting a few more lings suvive to rush the tanks? Once again, if I come across as obnoxious or so, its because of lack of vocabulary and understanding of the english language and nothing else. It is not my intention. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On December 11 2009 03:55 s031720 wrote: my god. you're right!A a bynote; I guess you could fly the CC over his base to psych him and having him kill his own CC | ||
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