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#44

Blogs > choboPEon
Post a Reply
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-03 04:59:49
November 03 2008 00:42 GMT
#1
Dear President #44 (I hope you read TL's blog section cause I know you wouldn't read general),

Hey, Barack. Yo, John. While I'm at it, I think Joe and Sarah should hear this, too. I'm not sure you folks got the memo(s) (constitution, etc.) ...

You will not be my Commander-in-Chief. George Bush was/is not my Commander-in-Chief, Clinton wasn't and neither was Bush I. You may be my President. You will never be my commander.

In fact, no President has been "our" Commander-in-Chief. I'm a civilian. "We" do not have a commander. To suggest that you are our commander is, to put it lightly, scary.


I first cringed at the misuse in 1973, during the “Saturday Night Massacre” (as it was called). President Richard Nixon, angered at the Watergate inquiry being conducted by the special prosecutor Archibald Cox, dispatched his chief of staff, Al Haig, to arrange for Mr. Cox’s firing. Mr. Haig told the attorney general, Elliot Richardson, to dismiss Mr. Cox. Mr. Richardson refused, and resigned. Then Mr. Haig told the second in line at the Justice Department, William Ruckelshaus, to fire Cox. Mr. Ruckelshaus refused, and accepted his dismissal. The third in line, Robert Bork, finally did the deed.

What struck me was what Mr. Haig told Mr. Ruckelshaus, “You know what it means when an order comes down from the commander in chief and a member of his team cannot execute it.” This was as great a constitutional faux pas as Mr. Haig’s later claim, when President Reagan was wounded, that “Constitutionally ... I’m in control.”

President Nixon was not Mr. Ruckelshaus’s commander in chief. The president is not the commander in chief of civilians. He is not even commander in chief of National Guard troops unless and until they are federalized. The Constitution is clear on this: “The president shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States.”

- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/27/opinion/27wills.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


Joe and Sarah make this mistake most often because they spend more of their time overtly showering their mates with compliments and cooing about supposed qualifications to be our glorious, steel-spined commander. However, Barack, John - you're both guilty of it as well. Guilty, too, are the press and the people. You're stuck in a Cold War mindset (it was scary and wrong back then as well).

Worse still, to equate "the President" with "our commander in chief" is to depict the U.S. as a state of endless war and pervasive militarism. Even in the limited sense that the Constitution uses the term ("Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States"), the President doesn't always wield that power, but only when those branches are "called into the actual Service of the United States."

- http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/11/02/biden/

This is not simply some harmless slogan or inconsequential title. It is tacit approval (if not overt approval) of the very real expansion of executive/presidential power. That is why it's important that the press, the people and, for God's sake, YOU GUYS (C'mon, John, Barack, Sarah, Joe...) stop. As recent history has proven, our privacy and our freedoms are at stake.

Cato senior fellow in Constitutional studies Robert A. Levy says, "President Bush's executive order sanctions warrant-less wiretaps by the National Security Agency of communications from the United States to foreign countries by U.S. persons. Reportedly, the executive order is based on classified legal opinions stating that the president's authority derives from his Commander-in-Chief power and the post-911 congressional authorization for the use of military force against Al Qaeda. That pernicious rationale, carried to its logical extreme, renders the PATRIOT Act unnecessary and trumps any dispute over its reauthorization. Indeed, such a policy makes a mockery of the principle of separation of powers.

-http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_01_01_digbysblog_archive.html#113617786412195180

This is nothing new. The executive branch has been expanding for over a century. Mr. 44, I'm beginning to have my doubts that you read TL.net's blog section and so I won't put in the effort of writing a history lesson until you pm me and tell me you're dying to know. I wonder what your user name is. Are you a MiR?

Love,
One of the folks who helps hire you people.

brief history of the term
not so brief criticism of the term
the press loves this shit AND very specific and scary examples

-------------------------

edit - addendum: specifically

(ps i quote/steal lots of things in here from various sources cause im gathering up some examples! everything is linked if you look around.)

The idea that the president is our commander-in-chief - that that should be the/a common manner in which to refer to him in casual, legislative and/or legal settings and in all contexts as it is today- is more than semantics and more than me just being a freedom hatin' terrorist.

This is all connected. The repeating of the words, the enforcement of it as an idea and then the enactment of it as LAW.

First of all! The more the President is glorified and elevated (he's not merely a public servant or a political official, but "our Commander in Chief"), the more natural it is to believe that he should have the power to do what he wants without anyone interfering or questioning. The last 8 years are a fantastic example of this but certainly not the only one. However, let's look at the last 8 years first.

Republican (small government!) Senator Kit Bond explains why telecoms should be excused for breaking the law after the commander in chief "directed" then to allow illegal government spying on their customers:

I'm not here to say that the government is always right, but when the government tells you to do something, I'm sure you would all agree that I think you all recognize that is something you need to do.


Whoa! scary. But, wait. Beyond that (as previously quoted)-

Cato senior fellow in Constitutional studies Robert A. Levy says, "President Bush's executive order sanctions warrant-less wiretaps by the National Security Agency of communications from the United States to foreign countries by U.S. persons. Reportedly, the executive order is based on classified legal opinions stating that the president's authority derives from his Commander-in-Chief power and the post-911 congressional authorization for the use of military force against Al Qaeda. That pernicious rationale, carried to its logical extreme, renders the PATRIOT Act unnecessary and trumps any dispute over its reauthorization. Indeed, such a policy makes a mockery of the principle of separation of powers.


The idea has been used to justify/legalize warrant-less wiretaps, "enhanced interrogation techniques" as ordered by our grand leader - this is, in fact, not all.

In fact:
The administration, on several occasions, has promoted a legal theory known as the unitary executive theory, to argue that in his duty as Commander-in-Chief the President, with his inherent powers, cannot be bound by any law or Congress.


WHAT! Oh, oh, wait. Our commander is just protecting us!

....since the primary task of the President, during a time of war, is protecting US citizens, anything hindering him in that capacity can be considered unconstitutional


The same rationale was used to deny detainees in the War on Terror protection by the Geneva Conventions resulting in a global controversy surrounding apparent mistreatment. Also it is thought that the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, which was adopted to address prisoner abuse, might be ignored after President Bush added a signing statement, invoking his rights as Commander-in-Chief, to that bill
.

What about criticizing the President/Commander in chief/our dear glorious leader? Again, we barely need to look into the past. Remember 2005? Bush was being criticized heavily on several fronts.

It is time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be Commander-in-Chief for three more critical years, and that in matters of war we undermine Presidential credibility at our nation’s peril.
-Joe Lieberman, Dec 2005

Hardly the only example of the kind of combatitive defense of our grand leader (quite literally a million are around from the past 8 years alone)- if you criticize our COMMANDER, you undermine and endanger us all! How far of a stretch is it to say that criticzing us is one step away from taking up arms for the enemy?

This is not just a matter of Republicans standing up for Republicans, Democrats for Democrats. It's this distinctly authoritarian mindset that led to the many many many abuses of power over the last 8 years (but certainly not exclusive to the last 8 years!)

A NYTimes reporter explains why many journalists such as herself were "very deferential" to the Bush administration in the run up to the war! (Very important!)

"It's frightening to stand up there . . .You are standing up on prime time live television, asking the president of the United States a question when the country is about to go to war." ... White House reporters weren't questioning a political official who is to be held accountable. They were gently -- "deferentially" -- posing questions to The Commander-in-Chief.


The way in which the press acted in the lead up to the war is of immense importance. It's huge and directly related to our going to war!

This is deliberate. A lot of the articles/essays written about this wonder, in writing, about how deliberate it is. This is 100% deliberate.

Nixon, our glorious leader in the 70's, used the idea that he was, indeed, commander in chief of the executive branch (that is CIVILIANS, not the military), to bully those working under him. Watergate, anyone? As previously quoted:

Oh, you'd like to investigate our commander??
...during the “Saturday Night Massacre” (as it was called). President Richard Nixon, angered at the Watergate inquiry being conducted by the special prosecutor Archibald Cox, dispatched his chief of staff, Al Haig, to arrange for Mr. Cox’s firing. Mr. Haig told the attorney general, Elliot Richardson, to dismiss Mr. Cox. Mr. Richardson refused, and resigned. Then Mr. Haig told the second in line at the Justice Department, William Ruckelshaus, to fire Cox. Mr. Ruckelshaus refused, and accepted his dismissal. The third in line, Robert Bork, finally did the deed.

What struck me was what Mr. Haig told Mr. Ruckelshaus, “You know what it means when an order comes down from the commander in chief and a member of his team cannot execute it.” This was as great a constitutional faux pas as Mr. Haig’s later claim, when President Reagan was wounded, that “Constitutionally ... I’m in control.”



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory#The_George_W._Bush_administration


Well, interesting news just came out today regarding the wiretaps, by the way.

Judge orders White House to produce wiretap memos
A judge has ordered the Justice Department to produce White House memos that provide the legal basis for the Bush administration's post-Sept. 11 warrantless wiretapping program......Shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, Bush authorized the National Security Agency to spy on calls between people in the U.S. and suspected terrorists abroad without obtaining court warrants. The administration said it needed to act more quickly than the court could and that the president had inherent authority under the Constitution to order warrantless domestic spying.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i6VZF8RWefyI540jlRNHxOAynQrAD946P4B80


Yes, you read that right. Among everything that this administration has kept secret even the LEGAL LOGIC behind all of this is secret. It may continue to stay that way, depending on this judge!


*****
:O
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
November 03 2008 01:34 GMT
#2
Damn Libertarians, when will you ever learn. Centralization is a reality.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
November 03 2008 01:58 GMT
#3
I approve of this message
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
November 03 2008 02:15 GMT
#4
On November 03 2008 10:34 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Damn Libertarians, when will you ever learn. Centralization is a reality.


i am 190% not a libertarian
:O
Suggestion Box
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
China115 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-03 04:13:00
November 03 2008 04:09 GMT
#5
I think you're equivocating on the phrase "our Commander-in-Chief." You are right that we don't "have" a commander in the sense that the President is not the one who commands us. But he is "our" commander in the sense that he commands the military. That's what "our" commander is supposed to mean. Just in the same way, Colin Powel was "our" General--this doesn't mean we would take orders from him.

edit: Maybe your point is more t hat other people are equivocating intentionally to make the executive branch too powerful. Clearly all this expansion of the executive branch is unconstitutional and pretty shitty. I agree on this point, but I still think the above response is accurate regarding the way you began your post. I suppose my real disagreement with you is in the composition of your post. You should start out showing some clear examples of people making the President out to be one who commands civilians. Then I would follow the post smoothly from start to finish.
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
November 03 2008 04:15 GMT
#6
On November 03 2008 13:09 Suggestion Box wrote:
I think you're equivocating on the phrase "our Commander-in-Chief." You are right that we don't "have" a commander in the sense that the President is not the one who commands us. But he is "our" commander in the sense that he commands the military. That's what "our" commander is supposed to mean. Just in the same way, Colin Powel was "our" General--this doesn't mean we would take orders from him.


but the idea (which, admittedly i didn't really get into enough in the post) is that the phrase "our commander-in-chief" is being taken literally in legal settings! that is the huge problem and it relates to the explosion of executive powers.

and the fact that commander-in-chief has become synonymous with president in political speech is contributing to this

it's not just a word problem. it's a legal problem that is directly related to the separation of powers, the war on terror, our privacy, our rights


:O
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
November 03 2008 04:15 GMT
#7
[B]

edit: Maybe your point is more t hat other people are equivocating intentionally to make the executive branch too powerful. Clearly all this expansion of the executive branch is unconstitutional and pretty shitty. I agree on this point, but I still think the above response is accurate regarding the way you began your post. I suppose my real disagreement with you is in the composition of your post. You should start out showing some clear examples of people making the President out to be one who commands civilians. Then I would follow the post smoothly from start to finish.


now thats a fair enough criticism :D ill do that in a minute
:O
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
November 03 2008 04:57 GMT
#8
there you go. a few more specifics.
:O
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