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On September 04 2008 15:29 rottedchode wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 15:19 KrAzYfoOL wrote:in the 1,000 + replays of mondragon i have, he's got an average apm of 210, and these are quite old too  what's your point? you wanna dig deeper trying to find good zergs with actual apm lower then 200? and if Mondragon had 180-190 in some important games wouldn't that make u wrong anyways?
what if he had 180-190 apm in important games that would disprove him averaging 210apm in a thousand games?
god you are fucking STUPID
download his TSL replay pack, open bwchart, click the players tab, and see for yourself you clueless motherfucker.
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On September 04 2008 16:31 KrAzYfoOL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 15:29 rottedchode wrote:On September 04 2008 15:19 KrAzYfoOL wrote:in the 1,000 + replays of mondragon i have, he's got an average apm of 210, and these are quite old too what's your point? you wanna dig deeper trying to find good zergs with actual apm lower then 200? and if Mondragon had 180-190 in some important games wouldn't that make u wrong anyways? what if he had 180-190 apm in important games that would disprove him averaging 210apm in a thousand games? god you are fucking STUPID download his TSL replay pack, open bwchart, click the players tab, and see for yourself you clueless motherfucker.
rawr
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United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
people with low apm say that apm is meaningless. --sour grapes--
low apm people always think high apm = useless apm. wrong =(
Obviously if you have 100apm and can do everything that is required of you then wow good for you... but can you? Are you using up all your money? training all the units you need, upgrading all you need, positioning your army where they need to be, expanding, harassing etc.
When you have a low apm there is just THAT much you can do. That's it, that's your limit. Anything more that comes along that needs you will go past undone.
If you have low apm and think you're doing just fine, then play better people.
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high useful apm is good
high wasteful apm < low useful apm or about the same
i think it's measured by your Eapm with chaos? when the apm is all Eapm then it's 100% useful
So for example, 200 apm however with perfect 200 eapm would easily beat , or have an easier time beating, a 300 apm with only 150 eapm
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@op whats your iccup level?
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On September 04 2008 14:42 AttackZerg wrote:So are you and your constant apm related posts.
wat
you got the wrong guy
My point was that from the sounds of the OP all that mattered was that little number next to his APM live or whatever, which isn't true. It really sounded as if he was just spamming to hit his quota, and by that, it's completely meaningless. Your effective apm is so much more important and let's say for example you were D with 200 apm, you could keep that 200 apm and still hit C or B without it changing, your eAPM would skyrocket.
don't spam, let your apm come to you naturally. There's no point playing at an uncomfortable rate.
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I can tell you that 150 useful APM is *nowhere* near enough after 12-15 minutes into the game, after the game has developed into a typical macro game. You NEED 200+ if you want to become really good. The more the better - you'll have faster reaction times and can simply do more things at once. Players saying that APM is meaningless either don't play at the very high levels or they're somehow stuck in like 2004 or so when Fisheye owned everyone with 150 APM.
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Apm alone means nothing.
You must take quality into account and it's mostly from precision and ability to focus.
If you lack those you may end up with over 50% trash actions which is worthless.
The formula would be : APM * Quality
Which is not good eigher if you have too low APM nor too low Quality
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On September 04 2008 15:16 rottedchode wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 14:42 AttackZerg wrote:On September 04 2008 14:36 Tropics wrote:
apm is meaningless Yes your not a real zerg player unless you are over 200 in competetive games. Period. Not up for debate ..... PERIOD. what about mondragon? T_T Or Testie? oh real means Progamer? yes u wont be a Progamer with less then 200 apm. Hell u wont be a progamer with more then 200 either. wait are u retarded then? O.o
Ok you have 16 posts and judging from this one, you are pretty fucking stupid, but I'll be kind and respond.
Mondragon has been over 200 apm for years. Testie is not a zerg user, but he can play a wicked ZvP. Testies Apm in tournament games with zerg is between 180-200 from what I remember vs foru at wcg.
Show some respect faggot. You've been here how many days and are calling somebody retarded with your korean wanna-be incoherant fragmented post. And nobody was talking about being a pro gamer.
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APM is only indicative of anything if it is on the very low or very high end.
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I believe every non-korean to get a win off a pro in spirit was over 300 apm.....
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On September 04 2008 17:21 HeavOnEarth wrote:
high useful apm is good
high wasteful apm < low useful apm or about the same
i think it's measured by your Eapm with chaos? when the apm is all Eapm then it's 100% useful
So for example, 200 apm however with perfect 200 eapm would easily beat , or have an easier time beating, a 300 apm with only 150 eapm
You can measure eapm with chaos? Didn't know that. How?
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On September 04 2008 16:31 KrAzYfoOL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 15:29 rottedchode wrote:On September 04 2008 15:19 KrAzYfoOL wrote:in the 1,000 + replays of mondragon i have, he's got an average apm of 210, and these are quite old too what's your point? you wanna dig deeper trying to find good zergs with actual apm lower then 200? and if Mondragon had 180-190 in some important games wouldn't that make u wrong anyways? what if he had 180-190 apm in important games that would disprove him averaging 210apm in a thousand games? god you are fucking STUPID download his TSL replay pack, open bwchart, click the players tab, and see for yourself you clueless motherfucker.
watch your language garbage. You're the dumb one since not breaking 200 in important game still doesnt make him a bad player in that game( read post of Attackzerg) And he had MANY of those. So your battle cry went for nothing, pretty pitiful.
On September 04 2008 18:44 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 15:16 rottedchode wrote:On September 04 2008 14:42 AttackZerg wrote:On September 04 2008 14:36 Tropics wrote:
apm is meaningless Yes your not a real zerg player unless you are over 200 in competetive games. Period. Not up for debate ..... PERIOD. what about mondragon? T_T Or Testie? oh real means Progamer? yes u wont be a Progamer with less then 200 apm. Hell u wont be a progamer with more then 200 either. wait are u retarded then? O.o Ok you have 16 posts and judging from this one, you are pretty fucking stupid, but I'll be kind and respond. Mondragon has been over 200 apm for years. Testie is not a zerg user, but he can play a wicked ZvP. Testies Apm in tournament games with zerg is between 180-200 from what I remember vs foru at wcg. Show some respect faggot. You've been here how many days and are calling somebody retarded with your korean wanna-be incoherant fragmented post. And nobody was talking about being a pro gamer.
I don't care for you to respond, you can keep it to yourself and wipe the drool off your chin. Testie had apm much lower then this. Everyone knows that, funny that u make shit up to prove some nonexistent point. And Mondragon had shitloads of games below 200, read above. Like i said, i am truly careless about some garbage washed up C+ end of season zerg user whos twisting the facts only to get off in a dumb argument. And why u bring up my post count, thats the last resort of a helpless faggot.
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As long as your APM is > 110 it doesn't really matter. If it's < 110 then just go play protoss :D
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To a certain degree, APM are important, but as soon as you pass the 150 APM barrier, it's not as important anymore. Also, APM do not necessarily reflect a player's skill. For example, I average at 300 APM/160 EAPM in all match-ups, which would lead you to think that I would be around C somewhere, but in fact, I struggle to reach D+..
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On September 04 2008 23:36 d1v wrote:
To a certain degree, APM are important, but as soon as you pass the 150 APM barrier, it's not as important anymore. Also, APM do not necessarily reflect a player's skill. For example, I average at 300 APM/160 EAPM in all match-ups, which would lead you to think that I would be around C somewhere, but in fact, I struggle to reach D+..
I don't understand players who have so much APM and are D+. What the hell are you doing?
I run 150 on average and I'm a decent C rank, C+ high.
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rottedchode please download last years wcg germany replay pack, this years wcg germany replay pack and last years international wcg replay pack, you'll come to the realization that in important events mondragon's apm is higher.
i HONESTLY do not know where you're getting the idea that his apm drops during important games (this is implying that he'd be putting the effort to raise his apm in friendly games and not in important games, which is just plain stupid.)
my only conclusion is that your facts are lagging behind by 4-5years.
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so much hate in this thread, I'm not trying to brag or say APM is that special;; I just wanted to write a blog about this
On September 04 2008 17:37 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@op whats your iccup level?
I don't play on iccup because
1. I'm intimidated by the skills of players there
2. I hate bnet latency, especially since I'm a zerg player
3. I have easy access to lan games with my roommates and friends in real life
But my training partner buddy is C on iccup, or so I heard
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dude if you hate bnet latency you must play iccup. the latency change is everything you need as a zerg, specialy for muta harassment.
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EPT
