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If you've played me, you know that aside from the occasional 4/5pool that I always do the following:
9 overLORD
9 extractor/drone/cancel
12 pool
15 hatch
two lings
18 gas
21 hatch
lair
zergling speed
And from there on I go into mutalisks. But I notice that whenever I play against a Terran, they a) can't fight mutalisks well b) always move out at a specific timing.
Now, I know this timing is when they see my mutalisk harass has ended. I always make about 9-10 muta, and do some harass, but make it seem like the harass failed and stop harassing. then i get another 10 muta and i hide 2-3 groups of lings somewhere on the map that he hopefully won't find.
Then I send in a fwe lings every now and then as if I want to see what he's up to. He takes it to mean that these lings are sacrifical bait and that I'm mostly massing lurks. At this time the foolish terran decides to move out with a group or two of MnM, at which point I usually have 4-5 sunks morphing. At the halfway point btwn his base and mine, I do an all-in mutaling attack. What usually happens is that I manage to do heavy damage to his base, if I see firebat-medic blocking ramp i snipe them with muta. He then has two choices: run back into his base and try to defend, or charge into my sunken line. If he charges into my sunken line, I'll have a few more groups of lings ready and they'll flank and wipe out the group, and the game would be over. So his only real option is to retreat to his base and defend. Now for some reason, I've found that if you keep 7-8 muta at his ramp with a bunch of lings you can hold off the returning troops almost indefinitely as they have to go single file down the ramp.
Diagram Time:
So let's say its python.
/ /
-------ramp-------
6ling muta 6ling
burning assorted terran production
facilities like barracks and depots
ling ling muta ling ling ling ling muta
My attack has only failed twice out of many, many uses. The reason for the first failure was because I forgot it was LT and he floated his CCs to the islands and floated like 10 rax and slaughtered me b/c I had no lurks and I was being a cocky bitch trying to kill his Valkyries. The second time I was rudely interrupted by a sunken break before my attack could arrive and I lost all of my muta trying to defend.
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i guess its 9 overlord and not 9 overpool? cus 9 overpool 12 pool really doesnt make sense :p
Anyways, both overpool and 12 pool pretty much suck ass zvt (given its a fairly standard map).
A good T user will know u are going for some kind of timing attack and will just mass and timing push u to death. Cus if the zerg deviates from the standard 12 fe opening he has the only 2 options -> timing attack, in which case massing and moving out with that big pre-hive timing attack is really strong. Or zerg could play the standard game, but with a weaker economy due to his opening. In this case a pre-hive timing push is also a really good choice, cus with the weaker economy it will be even harder to stop for zerg than with the normal 12 hatch fe opening.
And thats why pool b4 hatch sux in ZvT unless ur feeling the need to go allin (which always indicates u are worse or at least feel worse than ur opponent).
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The best zerg build is you cancel your larvae to get 1600 resources, then you proceed to get 1 drone 3 hatcheries and a pool pumping drones. Then you get your gas and get a few more hatcheries, sunk your nat, get a 2nd gas and pump muta + many ling.
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On June 06 2008 22:27 diehilde wrote:
i guess its 9 overlord and not 9 overpool? cus 9 overpool 12 pool really doesnt make sense :p
Anyways, both overpool and 12 pool pretty much suck ass zvt (given its a fairly standard map).
A good T user will know u are going for some kind of timing attack and will just mass and timing push u to death. Cus if the zerg deviates from the standard 12 fe opening he has the only 2 options -> timing attack, in which case massing and moving out with that big pre-hive timing attack is really strong. Or zerg could play the standard game, but with a weaker economy due to his opening. In this case a pre-hive timing push is also a really good choice, cus with the weaker economy it will be even harder to stop for zerg than with the normal 12 hatch fe opening.
And thats why pool b4 hatch sux in ZvT unless ur feeling the need to go allin (which always indicates u are worse or at least feel worse than ur opponent).
im not denying that my Z sucks 
although since when was 12 hatch fe the standard build
12 hatching is gai
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What do you do if the terran keeps a group of mnm in his base, and holds his ramp against your lings with them + firebat so it can't be sniped? Also, it seems like the FBH 6 rax build would rape you because he has so many mnm that he can defend home easy and have more than enough of an army to push out and attack you. Usually terran have / almost have a vessel by the time they push out with their first ball so couldn't he easily move back and just irradiate your mutas, and depending on how fast you are hurt them a lot? Otherwise ~ Fuck you for being a back stabbing zerg I HATE YOU. (no hard feelings)
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On June 06 2008 22:31 alphablend wrote:
The best zerg build is you cancel your larvae to get 1600 resources, then you proceed to get 1 drone 3 hatcheries and a pool pumping drones. Then you get your gas and get a few more hatcheries, sunk your nat, get a 2nd gas and pump muta + many ling.
what if the terran PRESSURES WITH THE SHADOWRUSH
epic battle: Lastshadow on his UMS vs. a Min Hacker Gogo
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On June 06 2008 22:33 .kaz wrote:
What do you do if the terran keeps a group of mnm in his base, and holds his ramp against your lings with them + firebat so it can't be sniped? Also, it seems like the FBH 6 rax build would rape you because he has so many mnm that he can defend home easy and have more than enough of an army to push out and attack you. Usually terran have / almost have a vessel by the time they push out with their first ball so couldn't he easily move back and just irradiate your mutas, and depending on how fast you are hurt them a lot? Otherwise ~ Fuck you for being a back stabbing zerg I HATE YOU. (no hard feelings)
i am the only terran as far as I know that actually goes 7 rax FBH style 7 Rax is great against everything, even lurkers. Oh damn i lost 30 marines oh hey guys i have another 30 marines
but like I said most terrans are stupid and move up a group or two of mnm to my choke to apply pressure and usually got 4 rax factory fast expand nonesense. They may leave troops in their base but they're usually at the nat all clustered together, and a semi-decent muta ling flank can rape them with few casualties.
Its ok I know how it feels to be backstabbed by zerg it happens to me a lot. That's why I have firebats
and i also usually have a few scourge parked outside of their starport waiting for something to spawn
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
9 overpool
9 extractor/drone/cancel
12 pool
?????
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Belgium8305 Posts
that's a terrible build and a pretty terrible strat
proper scouting rapes the shit out of you
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On June 06 2008 23:09 vGl-CoW wrote:
that's a terrible build and a pretty terrible strat
proper scouting rapes the shit out of you
you think?
fortunately most terrans don't scout properly
and if they do i usually spot it with muta and it gets owned
they also waste all of their scans look for my hydra den and lurks, or maybe they save scans for lurks
if i really wanted a strong competent build i would go 12 hatch into some sort of econ thing but this is for quick wins
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what is an overpool?
a pool that is making while u make your first overlord?
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what the fuck
why would you have this as your standard build instead of 12 hat?
how the hell do you win games with this? are these just random east pubs or what rank on iccup?
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Calgary25986 Posts
Learn the basic builds, then learn the ideas and themes that make them the basic builds. Then learn the signs when you can shift your timings because of how your opponent is playing.
12 Pool is such a terrible. Just please stop using it. It gives you Zerglings at just the perfect time for them to be useless.
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Belgium8305 Posts
On June 06 2008 23:19 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2008 23:09 vGl-CoW wrote:
that's a terrible build and a pretty terrible strat
proper scouting rapes the shit out of you you think? fortunately most terrans don't scout properly and if they do i usually spot it with muta and it gets owned they also waste all of their scans look for my hydra den and lurks, or maybe they save scans for lurks if i really wanted a strong competent build i would go 12 hatch into some sort of econ thing but this is for quick wins
well yeah the 12 pool is pretty much useless and puts you behind from the start
and any decent terran will scan you during/right after your mutalisk harass to check when lurkers are coming
they will see no lurker tech and most likely notice that you're still building mutalisks
they will know what you're trying to do
they will camp for a while so you can't touch them, move out and rape you
this type of strat definitely works at lower levels though
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On June 06 2008 23:37 Chill wrote:
Learn the basic builds, then learn the ideas and themes that make them the basic builds. Then learn the signs when you can shift your timings because of how your opponent is playing.
12 Pool is such a terrible. Just please stop using it. It gives you Zerglings at just the perfect time for them to be useless.
Exactly, Learn the basic builds and become really strong at them!
After that you may vary your BO, etc
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On June 06 2008 23:37 Chill wrote:
Learn the basic builds, then learn the ideas and themes that make them the basic builds. Then learn the signs when you can shift your timings because of how your opponent is playing.
12 Pool is such a terrible. Just please stop using it. It gives you Zerglings at just the perfect time for them to be useless.
On June 07 2008 00:31 InfesTeD]i[ wrote:
Exactly, Learn the basic builds and become really strong at them!
After that you may vary your BO, etc
I only play ZvT for fun
my main is T
maybe i'll just swap to 12 hatch 11 pool then in my bo T_T
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It doesnt even take scouting, just scanning his nat, seeing his 5 sunkens being made, have a little bit of common sense and making 2-3 bunkers (or simply not going out).
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My question is... does the gas trick do you any good when doing a 12 pool? It doesn't let you use larva that would otherwise go to waste. And the cost of canceling the extractor and running that extractor drone around is more expensive than what you gain from mining with the extra drone. Or no?
Or does this have some other purpose such has making a 10/9 hatchery in case of something you scout?
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ok well i used to always go 2 rax, gas, acad all before expo, and move out with a quick 8 marines, 2 bats, 2 medics, with stim.
basically, if the zerg goes 12 pool, then their expo is too late and that initial attack ends the game right there. could also be vulnerable to bunker rush.
better to do the standard hatchery before pool, i dont know - 12 hatch is it?
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EPT
